Top Mud Sites Forum Return to TopMudSites.com
Go Back   Top Mud Sites Forum > MUD Promotions and Events > MUD Announcements
Click here to Register

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-15-2005, 02:32 AM   #41
Threshold
Legend
 
Threshold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: Threshold RPG
Posts: 1,241
Threshold will become famous soon enough
I don't know if anyone thought about it, but since Matt is paying for 3 more ad slots, he could very easily have just used them for ads for his own games and still accomplished the goal of making sure TMS didn't lose money from Ruarc (sp?)'s decision to pull his ads.

The fact that he offered them to other non-commercial muds really does seem like generosity to me. I don't think he entertains any illusions of the general populace here deciding they like him simply because of that gesture.

It seems to be his belief, just as it is the belief of many other admins, that we all benefit from the general hobby of mudding improving and from more muds being successful.

Of course, now that I defended the action I will be labelled an IRE lap dog despite the fact that I am not associated with them in any way and earn no money from them in any way. But that's how it seems to work around here.
Threshold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 04:38 AM   #42
prof1515
Senior Member
 
prof1515's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 791
prof1515 will become famous soon enoughprof1515 will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to prof1515 Send a message via Yahoo to prof1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ May 15 2005,02:32)
Of course, now that I defended the action I will be labelled an IRE lap dog....
What do you mean "now" that you defended him? You've been his lap dog for some time.
prof1515 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 06:32 PM   #43
Ashon
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 75
Ashon is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Ashon Send a message via AIM to Ashon Send a message via MSN to Ashon Send a message via Yahoo to Ashon
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Topmudsites likely brings in a large amount of players for IRE, and if TMS was injured it would likely reflect on some of their games. It is perfectly reasonable for them to want to invest a bit of money into the site, what with all the free advertising they get here for being on the Top 10 list.
That's fine. Then if he wants to invest more money into TMS, let him. That's fine, I actually think that's got some pretty good banners. My problem is him trying to turn into some community outreach program, where he's helping the less fortunate Hobbyist muds that can't afford to advertise. That is what I'm railing against.


Quote:
Originally Posted by
Also, what's the #### is this 'stand against commercial MUDs' that you seem to be supporting? The fact that they accept money makes them evil, or what? The exchange of currency for quality services, i'll have you know, is not a sin. It is, in fact, a perfectly 'moral and ethical' thing.
I have no problem against Commercial Mud's. And other then the way Matt has presented himself on boards, I have no real issue with IRE. I think that he'd be better off just doing a subscription based system, rather then having pay-for-perks, especially if as we heard, that you need to get the perks to play at any level of fun. MT, is immoral and unethical, IRE gives me that 'dirty' feeling. But when someone supposes to be doing a favor for the community when it is so blatantly self-serving, offends me.
Ashon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 07:29 PM   #44
Threshold
Legend
 
Threshold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: Threshold RPG
Posts: 1,241
Threshold will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (prof1515 @ May 15 2005,04:38)
You've been his lap dog for some time.
Do you have any idea how idiotic you sound? The fact that you equate agreeing with something as being someone's lap dog points to a severe mental deficiency on your part.

Analyze the situation a little better. I make commercial muds. Commercial muds compete with each other for customers, business, and dollars.

Now tell me again why I am the lap dog of a competitor?

Please pull your head out of your ass.
Threshold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 07:33 PM   #45
Threshold
Legend
 
Threshold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: Threshold RPG
Posts: 1,241
Threshold will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Ashon @ May 15 2005,18:32)
My problem is him trying to turn into some community outreach program, where he's helping the less fortunate Hobbyist muds that can't afford to advertise. That is what I'm railing against.
Can you re-read what you said?

You are mad at someone for being generous. You are "railing against" someone who, in your own words, is "helping the less fortunate Hobbyist muds that can't afford to advertise."

Do you make it a habit to attack people who try to help others?
Threshold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 07:56 PM   #46
Gorgulu
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 41
Gorgulu is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Ashon @ May 15 2005,18:32)
But when someone supposes to be doing a favor for the community when it is so blatantly self-serving, offends me.
I'd just like to add, as long as we're being so PC and sensitive to each other's feelings or whatever, that that offends me. Whoops on you, Mr. Morals!

*cough*

Right, helping both yourself and others at the same time is wrong, is what you're saying. You are saying: I don't want Matt to be generous to them, I want him to sacrifice himself to them.
Gorgulu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 08:01 PM   #47
Yui Unifex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 323
Yui Unifex is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Yui Unifex Send a message via AIM to Yui Unifex
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by (prof1515 @ May 15 2005,04:38)
You've been his lap dog for some time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ foo)
Do you have any idea how idiotic you sound? The fact that you equate agreeing with something as being someone's lap dog points to a severe mental deficiency on your part.
No you're not a lap dog because you agree. You are a lap dog because you defend his supporters and lash out at his detractors with extremely egregious misinterpretations and straw men. Just like the one above. And even when contrary evidence is posted that disproves your interpretation, you simply call troll or ignore it. I guess that's much easier than actually addressing an argument.
Yui Unifex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2005, 11:39 PM   #48
Threshold
Legend
 
Threshold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: Threshold RPG
Posts: 1,241
Threshold will become famous soon enough
Still bitter from the last 100 times in a row you got trounced, Yui?

The way the Idiot Brigade around here equates agreement with lap dogism is absolute rubbish.

One of the main reasons these forums have been absolutely worthless for years now is because of CRT warrior/forum-jockey peons like yourself, Yui, who make people regret wasting their time to participate.
Threshold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 07:19 AM   #49
KaVir
Legend
 
KaVir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 2,052
KaVir will become famous soon enoughKaVir will become famous soon enough
No, the reason the forums have declined in quality is because a certain individual has turned almost every thread into either a flamewar or an advertising spree. When this individual went away to start his own forums, the quality of posts rose considerably - until his forums flopped and he came back, at which point the quality has dropped again.

And the reason many of us consider you his lapdog is because you no longer appear to have any opinions of your own, instead just barking in agreement. It's a shame really, because many people used to consider you a respectable mud developer in your own right, but now whenever I see you've posted the only thing that comes to mind is "Which of the_logos views are you defending this time?".

What is it that causes a successful mud developer and administrator to give up his own personality and opinions?
KaVir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 10:00 AM   #50
Aeran
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 208
Aeran is on a distinguished road
What this forum really needs are some good moderators. The_logos might post flame-baits in your eyes but often I would say his posts aren't all that bad. It is the reaction of the rest of the community here who causes the flames to ignite.

I sent an email to Synozeer complaining about this thread yesterday, and still nothing has been done to cool the flames down. To let flames continue is to cause the board to lose quality. One person shouldn't be able to destroy an entire forum, should he?

Anyway this thread is now terribly off topic and should be locked or split. It has now even begun to degenerate to personal attacks .
Aeran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 11:25 AM   #51
KaVir
Legend
 
KaVir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 2,052
KaVir will become famous soon enoughKaVir will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Aeran @ May 16 2005,16:00)
The_logos might post flame-baits in your eyes but often I would say his posts aren't all that bad.
You've been posting here for 8 days. Do you really think that gives you a valid perspective of how the style of posting has changed here over the last few years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by
It is the reaction of the rest of the community here who causes the flames to ignite.
Well yes, that's precisely what happens when someone posts flamebait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
One person shouldn't be able to destroy an entire forum, should he?
Well he's having a pretty good attempt.
KaVir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 11:53 AM   #52
Yui Unifex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 323
Yui Unifex is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Yui Unifex Send a message via AIM to Yui Unifex
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ May 15 2005,23:39)
The way the Idiot Brigade around here equates agreement with lap dogism is absolute rubbish.
Please reread my post. This erroneous statement was specifically addressed already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ May 15 2005,23:39)
Still bitter from the last 100 times in a row you got trounced, Yui?
I'm not sure how you could trounce someone if you can't even be bothered to compose a reply relevant to what it is you're trouncing.
Yui Unifex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 01:21 PM   #53
Ilkidarios
Senior Member
 
Ilkidarios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Name: Lamont
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Posts: 436
Ilkidarios is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Aeran @ May 16 2005,10:00)
The_logos might post flame-baits in your eyes but often I would say his posts aren't all that bad.
Oh yeah, attacking everyone elses ideas because they're different than yours certainly doesn't sound like flame-bait to me!
Ilkidarios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 02:44 PM   #54
Aeran
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 208
Aeran is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KaVir: You've been posting here for 8 days. Do you really think that gives you a valid perspective of how the style of posting has changed here over the last few years?
I have been reading this board now and then during 3-4 years before I registered. Of course even then though it is hard to know how someone post because as an outsider you don't have the same feelings as when you interact.

As an outsider I might be able to see the threads more objective though. I agree that the_logos post threads that provoces flames easily. Still I hope the community does concentrate on what is important because there's more people like the_logos who have "odd views".

Does flaming the_logos and others in this thread make the situation any better? I seriously doubt it. The question though is why his thread wasn't closed if it's an obvious flame bait.
Aeran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 02:47 PM   #55
Threshold
Legend
 
Threshold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: Threshold RPG
Posts: 1,241
Threshold will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (KaVir @ May 16 2005,07:19)
No, the reason the forums have declined in quality is because a certain individual has turned almost every thread into either a flamewar or an advertising spree. When this individual went away to start his own forums, the quality of posts rose considerably - until his forums flopped and he came back, at which point the quality has dropped again.
No it isn't. No single person can "ruin" a forum. You give this mythical "person" way too much power. Furthermore, there are game developer blogs and lists like MUD-DEV where "this person" participates that have NOT devolved into the utter crap that is the TMS (or TMC for that matter) forum. If it is truly "this person" who is to blame, the effect would be universal.

No, it is not a single person that ruined these forums but the general population/peanut gallery. The forums here blow chunks because they are dominated by entire groups of people who can't actually DO anything, so they just **** and moan and attack people who HAVE accomplished things. Thus, people who actually do have valuable input regret participating in any substantive discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
And the reason many of us consider you his lapdog is because you no longer appear to have any opinions of your own, instead just barking in agreement. It's a shame really, because many people used to consider you a respectable mud developer in your own right, but now whenever I see you've posted the only thing that comes to mind is "Which of the_logos views are you defending this time?".
There you go again. Agreement = lap dog. That is a sad, tired, pathetic argument that any thinking person knows is fallacious.

Here's a hint: there are no other discussions on this forum other than the flame wars that are even marginally interesting. That is what this forum has devolved to. The rare attempts at a substantive thread are quickly ruined by clueless trolls and even these threads are sporadic. Brody is about the only person with any actual game creating talent who seriously tries to generate discussion, but the poor guy can't do it alone.

Honestly, why would I completely waste my time and effort trying to discuss a serious game design issue here, on these forums filled with know-nothing trolls, when I could have the exact same discussion on MUD-DEV or a number of excellent blogs (that I won't list for fear of the rabble here going there and ruining them too)? Those other forums have experienced game developers and intelligent, thoughtful people to discuss issues of game design with. Their moderators delete and prevent flame wars. Tell me why I, or any successfull game creator, would choose THIS forum to have a game related discussion instead of those?


Quote:
Originally Posted by
What is it that causes a successful mud developer and administrator to give up his own personality and opinions?
I'd be insulted by this if I didn't know it was just another example of you furthering your personal agenda and vendetta.

If you think succcessful mud developers all seem to think the same way about a certain set of issues, perhaps THAT should be a clue for you.

Perhaps it has nothing to do with your crazy conspiracy theory and maybe the things those successful mud developers agree upon are actually the RIGHT positions.

It is so much easier to just yell "LAP DOG!" than to actually examine your own positions and consider that you might be off base.

But please, don't let me interrupt you from swinging at windmills.
Threshold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 03:15 PM   #56
KaVir
Legend
 
KaVir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 2,052
KaVir will become famous soon enoughKaVir will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ May 16 2005,20:47)
No it isn't. No single person can "ruin" a forum. You give this mythical "person" way too much power. Furthermore, there are game developer blogs and lists like MUD-DEV where "this person" participates that have NOT devolved into the utter crap that is the TMS (or TMC for that matter) forum. If it is truly "this person" who is to blame, the effect would be universal.
As Tyche pointed out on TMC "BTW the problem child on TMS was also a problem child on mud-dev continually dropping chunks of bait in otherwise normal posts and then claiming innocence. A moderator who isn't afraid to delete or ask a person otherwise rewrite their otherwise high signal post to remove the unecessary and quite intentional 'bombs' in their post takes a lot of finesse and class. It takes even more guts to do it even when you agree with the person posting it."

Perhaps if TMS took the same stance towards moderation that MUD-DEV does it wouldn't be such a problem. However that's a huge amount of work, and decision for Synozeer to make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
No, it is not a single person that ruined these forums but the general population/peanut gallery. The forums here blow chunks because they are dominated by entire groups of people who can't actually DO anything, so they just **** and moan and attack people who HAVE accomplished things. Thus, people who actually do have valuable input regret participating in any substantive discussion.
It sounds like you're quoting the_logos. The definition of "accomplishment" is something that varies from person to person, as well you should be aware. How many codebases have you released? How many hundreds of muds are based on your work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by
There you go again. Agreement = lap dog.
No - blind agreement with every single point the individual makes, and only ever posting to defend your "master"...that is what makes you sound like a lapdog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
Here's a hint: there are no other discussions on this forum other than the flame wars that are even marginally interesting...Honestly, why would I completely waste my time and effort trying to discuss a serious game design issue here, on these forums filled with know-nothing trolls, when I could have the exact same discussion on MUD-DEV or a number of excellent blogs
And this, I believe, is the root of the problem. You and those like you have no interest or intent in posting anything worthwhile to these forums, so you use it as a dumping ground for provoking flame wars and spamming adverts. This is the attitude that ruins the forums and prevents any sort of worthwhile content from being posted.
KaVir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 04:53 PM   #57
Ilkidarios
Senior Member
 
Ilkidarios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Name: Lamont
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
Posts: 436
Ilkidarios is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ May 16 2005,14:47)
Tell me why I, or any successfull game creator, would choose THIS forum to have a game related discussion instead of those?
I don't know, you're the one that makes your decisions. Why don't YOU tell us why you chose this forum over MUD-DEV. It's not like anyone forces you to stay here. If you want to go there, then go.
Ilkidarios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 05:54 PM   #58
Threshold
Legend
 
Threshold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: Threshold RPG
Posts: 1,241
Threshold will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (KaVir @ May 16 2005,15:15)
No - blind agreement with every single point the individual makes, and only ever posting to defend your "master"...that is what makes you sound like a lapdog.
Aha. Since YOU consider it blind agreement, it is. How did you come to be so incredibly arrogant and full of yourself?

Also, are you sure about that "every single point" part? For example, can you quote my post where I agreed that it was a good idea for Medievia to be on the list? <span style='color:red'>Oops, you can't. So much for your weak attempt at an argument.</span>

Your attempt at justifying your repugnant behavior once again falls flat. The simple fact is that if anyone agrees with the people you despise, you label them lap dogs.

Do you have any idea how badly it weakens every point you try to make as well as your general credibility when instead of staying on topic you have to just label people lap dogs? That really is a ridiculous and sad way to try and strengthen your points: <span style='color:red'>"LAP DOG!!!!!!!! LAP DOG!!!!!!!!!!! $*@*#@^#(wiping drool from face) YOU ARE A LAP DOG I SAY!"</span>

Really..... step back and look at yourself.

You just cannot stand the fact that not everyone agrees with you. Get over it KaVir. Maybe if you took better positions on issues you'd have more of these "successful mud administrators" agreeing with you and then you wouldn't have to lament and cry about the fact that they have a different opinion than yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
And this, I believe, is the root of the problem. You and those like you have no interest or intent in posting anything worthwhile to these forums, so you use it as a dumping ground for provoking flame wars and spamming adverts. This is the attitude that ruins the forums and prevents any sort of worthwhile content from being posted.
Your timeline is all mixed up and you have cause and effect backwards. I don't start or create anything here, be it positive or negative. I tried hard to create interesting discussions long ago, but the lack of moderation and over abundance of trolls spoiled that. Now I occasionally comment on existing threads or arguments- that's it.

The rabble of childish trolls who don't know anything about making games and clearly don't even care to actually learn are the ones who make this an unpleasant and worthless place to have a substantive discussion.

There is no moderation, so the discussions suffer. Period. Saying it is "too much work" to moderate the forum is an easy excuse, but it doesn't change reality. The majority of those who would object to heavy moderation are the trolls who have enjoyed having their way with the place.

Until there is HEAVY moderation (heavy moderation includes deleting posts of nimrods whose argument consists of "YOU'RE A LAPDOG!") these forums will be a dumping ground. Not because of me or any other single "person", but because the HORDES of lifeless, know-nothing trolls pollute the forums constantly and overwhelm any attempt at a reasonable discussion of any issue.
Threshold is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 06:24 PM   #59
dragon master
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 106
dragon master is on a distinguished road
the_logos could have used the money to post his own ads. It looks like he's being nice here and offering to help other muds instead. The thing is, he purposely drew attention to Mercthievia and basicly said, "I'm sticking it to those protesting Mercthievia by doing this." If he actually wanted to give away free ads, he could have left that part out entirely, but it seems that even when he does something nice(if that is his true intention, which it may be), he has to be an ass about it and try to start a flamewar.
dragon master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2005, 06:28 PM   #60
KaVir
Legend
 
KaVir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 2,052
KaVir will become famous soon enoughKaVir will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ May 16 2005,23:54)
Aha. Since YOU consider it blind agreement, it is. How did you come to be so incredibly arrogant and full of yourself?
Having a personality and an opinion is not the same as being arrogant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
Also, are you sure about that "every single point" part? For example, can you quote my post where I agreed that it was a good idea for Medievia to be on the list?
Your silence was sufficiently compelling, particularly considering your aggressive stance towards Medievia in the past. It must have been an uncomfortable pull of loyalties, watching the_logos defending them like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
Your attempt at justifying your repugnant behavior once again falls flat. The simple fact is that if anyone agrees with the people you despise, you label them lap dogs.
There are plenty of people who I have disagreements with, but most of them at least have their own agendas and viewpoints.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
Do you have any idea how badly it weakens every point you try to make as well as your general credibility when instead of staying on topic you have to just label people lap dogs?
I think I should point out that you're the one who brought up "lap dogs". And I really find your above comment rather ironic, coming from the person who calls everyone 'jealous' if they say anything negative towards IRE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
Really..... step back and look at yourself.
Sure. Now do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
You just cannot stand the fact that not everyone agrees with you.
Of course I can - I've had disagreements with many posters, sometimes involving flamewars, yet I'm still on good terms with them.
KaVir is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


IRE will advertise for you. - Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Advertise your MUD in zMUD. Last week of bidding Zugg MUD Administration 0 02-16-2006 04:59 PM
Advertise with OGR! Siobhan Advertising for Players 0 07-03-2002 12:22 PM
Advertise with Online Gaming Resource MUSH! Siobhan Advertising for Players 0 04-19-2002 12:12 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Style based on a design by Essilor
Copyright Top Mud Sites.com 2014