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Old 10-18-2002, 02:41 PM   #1
Ntanel
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I am starting to notice a strong push on the pay to play front. Both Play.Net and Skotos.Net MUDs are starting to take the leads on the main list.

Perhaps it is time to consider a different approach? On the index list the top 15 free MUDs and below that list the top 5 pay to play MUDs.

I am well aware of the fact the option would need to be added to the database and it be set to search for it. Then obviously, the MUD owners would have to define which they are.

However, a rule should be in place stating if a pay to play MUD is found listed with the free MUDs, they will be denied any further listing after such a date chosen by Synozeer. This is just to ensure the pay to plays try to not bolster thier rankings by lying about thier listings classification.

It is unfair for free MUDs to have to compete against pay to play MUDs.

Unrelated, but directed to those at Play.Net... Can you offer proof of permission to use Xena, Hercules and related characters for your game from USA Networks?
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Old 10-18-2002, 03:34 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Ntanel @ Oct. 18 2002,2:41 pm)
Unrelated, but directed to those at Play.Net... Can you offer proof of permission to use Xena, Hercules and related characters for your game from USA Networks?
Actually this is being discussed in another thread.

As for H&X, if you visit the entry page you will see that the game logo has a circle-r.
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Old 10-18-2002, 05:26 PM   #3
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R = Registered, does it not? Hercules and Xena are registered trademarks of the USA Networks? What thread is the discussion on so I can redirect my questions to there or read what is said?
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Old 10-18-2002, 06:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Ntanel @ Oct. 18 2002,5:26 pm)
R = Registered, does it not?  Hercules and Xena are registered trademarks of the USA Networks?  What thread is the discussion on so I can redirect my questions to there or read what is said?
The threads are on the pay to play topic. They are right here in Bugs and suggestions, one is a poll. - Add $

I gave you a quick answer on H&X. I do not play the game but remember when it opened and it is done with permission. It is the full title of the game that is registered. I don't know if anyone from H&X posts here so if you want to know more you could sign up for the free 30 days and ask on the message boards there.
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Old 10-18-2002, 06:47 PM   #5
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We have the rights to the Herc and Xena names, characters, etc. The game was done through a contract deal with Paramount, I believe, or whatever the parent company is.


::wanders into the conference room and stumbles over the dozens and dozens of Herc and Xena production tapes::

Bubba
(Producer, Simutronics Corp.)
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Old 10-18-2002, 10:23 PM   #6
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I honestly don't think that mingling free and p2p muds is a bad thing. In fact...if you look at the ranks, you'll notice for all the people coming to TMS from these large p2p MUDs, a lot fewer are clicking back to them from TMS. However with the smaller MUDs, you'll see more people checking them out than voting for them...In my mind, that speaks of players from p2p's coming here to vote...then going from TMS to check out various other MUDS.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall at some of the smaller MUDs' imm channels...and see if they've seen a large influx of new players lately.
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Old 10-19-2002, 01:55 AM   #7
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I think everyone is benefitting from the big pay to play muds coming in. I play DragonRealms. Ive played for a long while. However, I have also played other MUDs, also for a long while. I will likely play DR untill it goes away, or I go blind, whichever comes first. However, there are times when I feel like a different kind of game. With a different character. So I try to find another MUD that appeals to me. I usually went to The Mudconnecter. Now I browse these listings and look around. Ive found a few good ones, a few great ones, and a few ones that I wasn't interested in. I think, as that fly on the wall, you would probably see me in there, looking around. And a lot of others, as well. That is likely true of DragonRealms and other pay to play MUDs as well.
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Old 10-19-2002, 02:18 PM   #8
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I will echo the sentiments of some of the other Simu game players in this and other threads.  I think having the bigger P2P games listed here has got to be a good thing.  I am a long time player of DR, and although I will always remain a loyal customer and player of that game, I have thoroughly enjoyed this site as well as checking out several other MUDs listed here.  Some were great and I have chars there that I will play, some were okay although I probably will not play again, some were just, well... yuck.

At any rate, the games here that I will continue to play, have obviously benefitted as they have acquired a new player, and will be mentioned by me to other friends as a great game to play.  I don't see how anyone can lose with the bigger games being a part of this site.  Oh, one of the games I did like is a P2P(form of) also, and so therefore they'll be getting some $ from me. So, like I said, seems like a win - win situation all the way around.  
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Old 10-19-2002, 04:36 PM   #9
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Sure. Win-win for the p2p games listed on the main page. Beyond that, not really. They gained one player from a p2p.

I fall to the feet of the p2p games for providing one player to the other games. But, let us consider for a moment. Had those games not been there, they would likely be getting more hits.

This is one of the reasons I am so much in favor of the p2p games (in ANY form) being marked with a clickable $ symbol that notes they take payments, or are mandatory p2p. This way, those of us who run non-p2p MUDs (not me, mine isn't even listed here ... so for those who want to say I'm being bitter, grow up and get some bubble gum), have a better chance of getting some of those who bypass p2p MUDs entirely simply on principle. If you want more information, go see the poll about this in the other forum. It covers all of this.
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Old 10-19-2002, 04:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
They gained one player from a p2p.
From what I have been hearing free muds have gained more than one player from the p2p games. Have free muds noticed a decline in the number of players trying out their games since p2p appeared on this list?

From a player perspective, it seems as though some of the admins of free muds don't want players to know about p2p games. The fact that free muds are free is a huge benefit over the p2p muds. If players still go over to the p2p muds it is because they are getting something there that free muds don't provide. You want more players? Find out what that is and deliver it.
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Old 10-19-2002, 05:13 PM   #11
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*sigh* They get convenience, flashy graphics on a webpage, and more players. People don't like to have to look. They come in, see the p2ps on the front page that have lots of votes.

p2p-
Convenience:
Gets to TMS and sees the listing, first thought, "Ok, let's try this one... lots of votes... must be good."

Flashy Graphics:
Goes to their webpage, sees nice images. Likes it, decides to try it out.

More Players:
Logs in, sees lots of players. Makes friends, decides to stay.


Free MUD that has just started-
Convenience:
Goes to TMS... has to look through the listings to find this MUD... those free MUDs that can't make it onto the rankings? Ah, who cares, right?

Flashy Graphics:
It's a MUD run by some guy who just wants to provide a fun place to play. He can't afford flashy graphics and he sucks in an image editor. Ah, who cares, right?

More Players:
They log in, see no one there, don't even take the time to play and log out. But, the p2p MUDs benefitted this MUD so much. Ah, who cares. Right?

Your reasoning is kind of like a man who can walk telling a guy in a wheelchair, "Well, if you don't like it, get up and do something about it."

Free MUDs have enough to compete with, with other free MUDs. Having to compete with p2p MUDs who have a higher budget, an established playerbase, and an existing staff, as well as having top rank on sites like this is BEYOND unfair.

If you can't understand that, you never will. But, for anyone who has ever run a free MUD... a TRULY free MUD (hint: Achaea, you don't fit this category)... it is PAINFULLY obvious.
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Old 10-19-2002, 07:21 PM   #12
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Have you ever tried asking players who pay to play why they choose to pay rather than play a free mud?

Come to think of it, I will do just that. New thread coming up.
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Old 10-19-2002, 07:23 PM   #13
shalliko
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I to think free muds should not have to compete with
pay-to-play muds. I think we should have two list. One right
beside the other. The main page would then list the top 20
pay-to-play muds along side the free top 20 muds. I also
wonder, how do muds that don't have a 300 to 500 player base
expect to compete with muds that do. Its obvious that the
bigger muds will get more votes.
~Shalliko~
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Old 10-19-2002, 07:26 PM   #14
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Like i suggested in a previous thread something like 2 weeks ago...
..why not just have two lists...one for Free MUDs and one for P2P MUDs..
with 2 lists there would be rooms for 100% expansion and TMS can advertise "Double the lists! Double the MUDS!" or whatever...
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Old 10-19-2002, 07:37 PM   #15
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Why not have two lists based on original code or stock? When I arrived sure I checked out the game at the top of the list, but I didn't stop there. I checked the info on numerous games including some not in the top 20. I am only interested in medieval type worlds which seem to be what started the whole mud craze. Why not separate by that criterial? Traditional medieval type worlds verses other mud styles?

I agree that cost should be listed as a factor under info. It is definitely more pertinent than some of the other information given.
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Old 10-20-2002, 03:33 PM   #16
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All I can say is that I respectfully disagree with your take on this Orion Elder.  I would never have even found this site if it hadn't been for Simu listing here.  I have actively searched through the MUDs, way past the top 20.  

I honestly don't see this site as a competition to begin with... yes, yes, I know its a vote/ranking site.  But in my view it is basicly a Mudding community, that is actively bringing people to this site via that vote, and these people are interested in Mudding obviously; its like promoting the gaming genre as opposed to putting various games in direct competition of one another.  I can not for the life of me believe that I am the only newcomer here that has been active, looking for other games to play, enjoying myself immensely...  Heck, I've even tried a few genres that I hadn't played before at all.

As to separate lists? I don't think so. I see no reason to segregate the listings unless you are going to go full out and have various aspects (IE code base, PK), genres, etc also segregated.  On the other hand, I see no reason why a $ couldn't be added for all forms of P2P MUDs, with explanations of what catagory they fall into within that. IE Monthly subscription, donation, etc.

P2P isn't a deciding factor for me.  I want entertainment.  I want roleplay.  I want a detailed world to immerse in...  What I am finding is that there are plenty of Free Muds out there that give me what I like.  There are bound to be other P2P gamers that are just like me.
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