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Old 05-14-2002, 04:17 PM   #1
elephantman
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I've been thinking about this for a long time.

What about giving the chance to the smaller Muds getting some more hits/views for a 15 day period?

Say, allow only those Muds ranked 51 and lower be visible for maybe 2 or 3 voting periods in a year.

The large Muds will always attract a large player base, but it would be nice for the minions to have their day in the sun!
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Old 05-14-2002, 05:40 PM   #2
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Could those voting against care to comment?
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Old 05-14-2002, 06:31 PM   #3
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I voted against, simply because I don't think it makes sense to list the muds that are only half-way down the list.  I think it would also create some odd voting results, because people are more likely to vote for (by clicking on, to take a look) those muds which are listed on the front screen - but as those entries scrolled upwards, the ones above them would come down, and in turn get more votes.

I've nothing against giving the smaller muds more publicity, I just don't think your proposal is the right way to do it - just my opinion, but that's why I voted "no".
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Old 05-14-2002, 07:39 PM   #4
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Well, how about a small frame on the sideboard for the "Featured Mud of the Day/Week/whatever." A script to randomly pull up one of the muds in the database here, link to their info, so their name is on the front page of the site, and those who dont get the top 20 listing will have a moment to shine Possibly a line adding the theme and codebase?
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Old 05-14-2002, 09:48 PM   #5
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Smaller muds can get some screen space by asking their players to write a descriptive and detailed review. I think each new review gets put up in that little block in the front, and I always like to try to read some of those.

In addition, people who are looking for smaller muds will find the smaller muds. They'll just keep going down the list until they find something they want. The muds that are at the top of the list usually have a larger playerbase which is important for some to know (either to avoid or to play).

While I understand that smaller muds want to grow, they also serve a very special place for mudders who want to get in early on the action and history of a world.

I actually didn't vote because I didn't really have a strong opinion one way or the other. I just wanted to point out that not being on top of the list does not necessarily mean that people won't find your mud.
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Old 05-14-2002, 10:01 PM   #6
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I voted no because this is "TOP" mud sites. This isn't "Middle" Mud Sites or "Bottom" mud sites. The whole reason for the voting thing is to indicate some of the larger, more popular muds.

If people wish to try out smaller muds, it is very easy to do so by simply scrolling down the list, or by using the search functions.

Also, when a mud is small, it needs to grow through word of mouth. A small mud would not benefit from having an influx of 50 users a day for a 2 to 3 week period. The very fact that it is small makes it unable to handle that kind of traffic burst.

I *do* however wish that more could be done to prevent rampant cheating. I know of a certain mud in particular that peaks at about 30 people online (they allow unlimited multiple characters, which results in each person running 5-6 characters per person), and yet manages to be in the top 5 constantly. Also, during its first few months of being on this list, that mud did not even have a VOTE link anywhere on their web page. Furthermore, the players of the game didn't even know about any voting. When asked, the admin of this mud said "I programmed my web page to only show the vote graphic every 12 hours." *chortle* This of course, was false. (yes, that means all their votes were somehow being generated by their administration/staff).

It would be nice to see that sort of stuff stopped. Synozeer does a DARN good job of policing the process and preventing abuse. I am sure its extremely hard to police. It is too bad the mud in question cannot just stop cheating on its own out of respect for this excellent site Synozzer has created.
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Old 05-15-2002, 01:43 AM   #7
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I'm not really sure where I fall in with this one, but I found the topic really interesting and thought i'd provide a few insigths none the less. The above post mentions that the smaller muds probably don't have room for influxes of 50 players at a time, but my argument would be they probably do and should have that kind of room. How can a small mud get bigger if it doesn't have the chance to get its name out, and if us larger games are clogging up all the spots people see when they directly log on, it does make it much more difficult to see the smaller, and who knows, perhaps even better options out there.

I really like the suggestion about a "mud of the week" kind of thing, because I do agree this is top mud sites, and to put anything but the top vote getting places at the top seems a bit silly. I see no reason, however, every month, or even every 3 months, there could be a big "check out this mud, currently ranked #, that's our special ad this time around!" with information about the game, its staff, players, etc. from a neutral third party, like the admin from this site (time willing, of course!. Having never been the little guy, I can't really give a great perspective on how they feel, but I can only assume it's a frustration of being stuck in a position where to get more advertising you have to be bigger, but to be bigger you have to get more advertising.

Just on a further note, I totally agree with Threshold's comments about games that artificially inflate numers through multiple login's or "live npc's" that some of the top couple games have which are counted in the "who all" commands for said games. Personally I see those kind of numbers as a way of lying to the person who logs in about the gaming experience they will expect, and if a game is wonderful, it shouldn't have any reason to count multiple logged in players or drone AI driven "special" Npc's towards its games player count.

Just my thoughts,
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Old 05-15-2002, 02:07 AM   #8
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I like the idea of posting a random mud of the day/week somewhere on the front page, but keep the rankings the way they are now. I also agree that someone looking for a smaller mud will most likely look towards the bottom of the list, or just do a search for a mud with less players. But.. letting a random "little" mud get their few moments of fame might be a good idea.
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Old 05-15-2002, 02:37 AM   #9
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Rather than try to reinvent the wheel to get more free publicity, you could do what several other games do to increase your visibility - regardless of your game's ranking on the list: Buy an ad. They're pretty affordable.
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Old 05-15-2002, 12:36 PM   #10
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Thanks for that, Brody. Totally ignoring the point.
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Old 05-15-2002, 12:54 PM   #11
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Nope, not ignoring the point at all. Just presenting a different point for others to consider. The fact is, OtherSpace used to be "one of the small MUDS" that needed exposure. We gained visibility not by asking Synozeer to give it to us for free, but by supporting TMS through advertising purchases. We help him, he helps us, win-win.

Now, what you're asking him to do is cheapen the value of his advertising. Why should I spend money on an ad if I can get in a random rotation "MUD of the day?" Why should he shoot himself in the foot? Why should he make it pointless for the rest of us to advertise?

The fact is, small MUDs already have plenty of opportunities to get more visibility.
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Old 05-15-2002, 01:08 PM   #12
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It would probably be a lot of work, but is it possible to change things so it shows something like the top 30 medium to large games and the top 20 small games, so there's the same number being advertised but good games without a lot of players have a chance to be seen?  Seems like the top 50 of each would be a bit too much.

There are some people who prefer the smaller game atmosphere, and it would help them to decide which get fewer votes because they aren't as good, and which get fewer votes because they have few players without having to check the info on every game farther down on the list.
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Old 05-15-2002, 02:30 PM   #13
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I could certainly see the benefit of a search criteria for playerbase size.

But, keep in mind, there are quite a few free ways to get yourself advertising on Top MUD Sites:

1) Your main listing.
2) Write articles/columns for TMS.
3) Engage in substantial discussions in the various forums (you're doing that right now! ).
4) Encourage your players to write comprehensive reviews of your game.

Three of the four listed require a bit of work on your part - and your players - but the payoff is worthwhile.

Instead of trying to get Synozeer to turn TMS into a communist state (which is what some people would prefer it to be), take advantage of the capitalistic aspects.

And, if possible, support what the guy's doing by *buying an ad*. It doesn't cost all that much and it gets you a banner ad in the rotation on top of the front page, which is far better than being #30 in a list of 30, or being shuffled around in a random text link.

It's not fair to ask him to make more work for himself just so we can get more free publicity.

Now, how about an idea that doesn't reinvent the wheel, doesn't devalue advertising, and doesn't make all that much more work for Synozeer? How about a forum specifically set aside for the Small MUDs? All that takes is adding a forum and finding a moderator - someone from within the ranks of that category. In it, I would envision discussion topics about growing a playerbase, developing a theme, managing as you grow, and marketing your MU*.
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Old 05-15-2002, 05:09 PM   #14
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Brody, I think you make a very good point in encouraging people to buy an ad. I have been an advertiser here for going on 2 years, and it has been very worthwhile.

A smaller mud could simply advertise for a month or two to get a nice influx of users. Then spend a few months adjusting to the burst. Furthermore, their advertisement contributes to the long term health and existence of this site which is a very good thing. In my mudding experience, this is the best MUD community site I have ever seen, and it has maintained that level of quality far longer than any of the other sites in the past. Synozeer does a great job, and advertising will allow him to continue to run the place.

As for small muds needing publicity:

This is an issue every single mud has dealt with since the beginning of time. Keep in mind that every "large mud" was at one point nothing but 1 person logged in coding away. Every mud had to slowly get the word out and try to give people an enjoyable experience so they would tell their friends.

If a game is interesting enough its playerbase will eventually grow. Further, it will grow organically which means it can manage its growth through creation of enough areas, events, etc. to accomodate its userbase.

Topmudsites generates a lot of traffic largely because of the presence and support of large muds with a lot of users. To artificially direct that traffic to a small mud (imho) would not only be unfair, but would also not very helpful in the long run to the small muds that got the traffic.
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