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Old 10-06-2002, 11:55 PM   #21
the_logos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Seraphina @ Oct. 06 2002,11:23 pm)
I prefer the idea of a drawing rather than a per vote or most votes reward.  I have no idea if DR will adopt this or any other incentive program because I am just a player.
Well, DragonRealm's producer has posted here multiple times that he doesn't care in the last about being #1. We'll see though.

--matt
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Old 10-07-2002, 12:10 AM   #22
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Show me a post in which Synozeer has stated EXPLICITLY that he encourages giving out incentive to vote.

I've as of yet to see it.

-D
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Old 10-07-2002, 12:22 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Dulan @ Oct. 07 2002,12:10 am)
Show me a post in which Synozeer has stated EXPLICITLY that he encourages giving out incentive to vote.

I've as of yet to see it.

-D
"Incentives are officially sanctioned for the time being." - Synozeer.

His first post in this thread. I don't know how much clearer you want it, considering the rules never even implied there was anything wrong with it.

--matt
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Old 10-07-2002, 12:24 AM   #24
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Many things are legal, yet still frowned upon. Keep that in mind. You can twist the wording of a contract to get something out of it that you want, that was not intended by the creator of that contract. Doesn't make it right.

Also, not quite sure if you noticed, but that sanction was a reluctant one. It's not as if he endorsed it. Only said it was allowed, for the time being, because it couldn't be properly policed. Another thing to keep in mind.
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Old 10-07-2002, 12:29 AM   #25
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.....Good god, Mihaly. I forgot you took that forum posting as a quote from RPGplanet.net.

Read the context of his message. He definitely implied that the only reason that incentives are allowed is simply because of the time requirements involved.

Several of my suggestions would immediately remedy this. However, all of them that would apply received severe flamings - from Achaea players, mind you. Or so they identified themselves. With, what was it....1 posts? 2 posts?

Eesh. There's a definitely deserving PtP flame here. And it's just ASKING for it. But, I'll be nice today.

-D
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Old 10-07-2002, 12:57 AM   #26
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One thing about mudders, we are all so very dedicated and emotional

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Well then, dear, you're not playing an RPI where all game rewards must be earned IC'ly. Where no OOC communication is allowed in game and where the very idea of rewarding someone for something ooc is just.... absurd.

This makes me sick.
You are right, I am not playing a game such as you describe. I can understand why the very thought might make you sick but Mudding has grown to include games with vastly different styles and approaches to game play. Many of the free games follow extremely strict roleplaying guidelines which is great but not all games are the same and I don't mean solely that some charge and some don't.

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Why is it that a gentle reminder on a discussion board isn't enough for someone to come vote for your site? As an admin, I won't even -mention- it to my players. If they don't want to remember to click on the voting link, then I'm doing something wrong as far as I'm concerned. Occasionally my players have reminded each other but not me, not ever.
I suspect because that is because of what you have percieved this site to be or the list to represent, which is how I first percieved it as well. A spot where players who really love the particular game they play could come and vote for it. If it were one vote, or voting once a month, then I would agree but as has been discussed elsewhere part of the premise of this site is that it will generate sufficient traffic to create income. That a player isn't "remembering" to click on a link twice a day every day doesn't mean that you are doing something wrong.

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But then I'm one of those admins that doesn't care about being #1, as hard as that is to believe. My problem with this is that there ARE lots of muds like mine, where to give an IC reward for an OOC action completely detracts from the game itself and pretty much makes a mockery of what an RPI Mud is intended to be.
It isn't at all hard to believe. I don't think it makes a mockery of what an RPI Mud is intended to be, only a specific type of RPI.

In a commercial RPG increasing the account base is important. I have a feeling you would not want 500 new members to join tomorrow. It would probably overwhelm your world. It would probably be difficult for the mud I play to absorb that many new players in one day but we could manage.

Now that we know it is within the rules, as an alternative you could add "no voting incentives offered" under info for people checking out various muds.
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Old 10-07-2002, 01:02 AM   #27
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-points at Seraphina-

And thus, my thesis about PTP MUDs hath been proved. If it benefits them, they will take anything and everything out of context.

-D
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Old 10-07-2002, 01:11 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Dulan @ Oct. 07 2002,12:29 am)
Eesh. There's a definitely deserving PtP flame here. And it's just ASKING for it. But, I'll be nice today.

-D
Wow, you might flame PtP MUDs? Your threats are truly frightening in their magnitude and scope. Do you really not have anything better to do than spend your time insulting people constantly on web boards? Most of your posts seem to be all about slamming someone. My fault for replying to any of them I suppose.

--matt
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Old 10-07-2002, 01:17 AM   #29
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And thus, my thesis about PTP MUDs hath been proved. If it benefits them, they will take anything and everything out of context.
I'm sorry, I don't really understand what you are implying. I reread my post and I don't think I misinterpreted or misrepresented anyone's words through selective quoting.

I want to make it clear that I am not an employee of any Mud just a player who enjoys the game I have been playing. I am now looking for a free mud for my daughter and her friends to play as well.

Certainly commercial muds have to take income into account because they are businesses and money is the main point of running a business. The quality of the product is an important aspect of why people buy it so if you are implying they will do anything for a buck you are wrong.
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Old 10-07-2002, 01:49 AM   #30
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Well, DragonRealm's producer has posted here multiple times that he doesn't care in the last about being #1. We'll see though.

Please refrain from using me or my product as an example to try to make your points.

Sure, our players that are voting are encouraged to vote within the guidelines set up by Synozeer.    Multiple votes within the 12 hour timeframe do nothing but cost Adam extra bandwidth, so they're encouraged to vote once every twelve hours if they're so inclined.

Please don't even THINK of equating that with paying for votes.
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Old 10-07-2002, 01:53 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by
Eesh. There's a definitely deserving PtP flame here. And it's just ASKING for it. But, I'll be nice today.
Dulan...

Again, I ask that you not lump all of us folks into the same group.

The logic being used baffles me just as much as it does you, I'm sure. Much akin to the same logic used for that RPGPlanet quote, I'm sure.
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Old 10-07-2002, 02:59 AM   #32
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I think it sould only be votes from players that want to vote for the game! Because they do truely love and enjoy the game! I think the votes for the game I play is close because all the votes that I know of is because the player want to vote for it. Not because they are offered, payed, bribed or told to vote. and for the small player base we have. I think we are doing awsome also
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Old 10-07-2002, 03:45 AM   #33
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Eh, sorry Bubba.

Reflex.

But, there's not really a term for Vryce and ilk that I know of. Well, there are expletitives, but I don't think Synozeer wants those used on these boards.

-D
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Old 10-07-2002, 03:52 AM   #34
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Well, personally I refuse to bribe my players to vote, just as I refused to hassle them to vote before.

If that puts us at the bottom of the list, so be it.

This voting business has all become way too cheesy, and in the last month the list lost all interest for me. I don't even bother to check which muds are on top any more.

The only thing that still makes me come to this site is  the discussion boards, but they seem to be deteriorating a lot too lately.

It's kinda sad to see a good site decline...
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Old 10-07-2002, 04:50 AM   #35
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At first i was hell bent against MUDs using incentives and wanted it gone simply because it caused a misrepresentation of the game's popularity. After all, the list is called, "Top MUD Sites", not "MUD Sites That Bring in the Most Traffic".

But now, as i see it, if a MUD wants to offer incentives and bug the hell outta players to vote, fine. It must drive the players nuts, but it's likely they don't wanna lose their bonus so don't complain about it. In the end i'd say that players will just get annoyed with it, find the game less fun, and in the end, hurt the game more than help it.

If Simutronics ever did something like Achaea did, to force votes, players would leave. No doubt about it. The *one* IG announcement that the button had be put up caused ALOT of complaints. In fact, there were players upset that they even meantioned it in the news section. Just imagine what a daily IG nagging message would do.

If admins wanna hurt their game by doing this sort of thing, i think it's their problem and they are the one who are gonna have to deal with unhappy players. Let them handle it.

To me it seems they care more about advertizing then the satisfaction of their current players. Think that says alot. Definately not the kinda game i wanna play.
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Old 10-07-2002, 08:58 AM   #36
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Wink

Well, if this site is just here to generate traffic, then that's fine. I'll happily delete my mud from the rankings list (as this forum and its list is not what I thought it was) and remove the voting link from my website. I know it won't make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things, especially when the site is getting all that Achea and Gemstone and their ilk have to offer, but it's really all I can do to show that I'm disgusted with the practice of voting incentives.


So, as soon as my password is sent to me, I'll be removing the link. (Yes, it's been so long that I forgot!

Good luck to you all...
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Old 10-07-2002, 09:46 AM   #37
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I would be against any rewards for voting and decided that if Dragonrealms did begin that process I would discontinue voting. The reason I vote is to attract players to Dragonrealms. The quality of a game is based in it's code but that is only the base from there it is the people that play the game. Getting noticed on this site is the perfect way to attract quality players, but if it goes beyond that into a battle for #1 then the results will be diminished.
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Old 10-07-2002, 10:16 AM   #38
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Alaire,

Please don't bundle Simutronic's products in with the likes of Achaea. The producers of Simutronics may manage pay-to-play games, but they do so in an honest and ethical fashion with the interests of their customers and the integrity of their games foremost in their thoughts. I truly believe that is reflected in the products they present.

I actually agree with what you are doing as well. After thinking about it for a couple of weeks, I'm beginning to wonder if it wouldn't be much more beneficial for Simutronic's to remove its links here and boycott this website also. Which makes an ass of me, because I was one of the biggest supporters for getting on this list. I actually added the initial link to DragonRealms here.

As a gamer and longtime customer of Simutronics, I am still very happy to see them advertising their games more. I've felt like they needed to for a while. Maybe it'd just be better to do so with reputable sites and businesses that take themselves seriously and present their content in an open and honest way. I'm just not sure, from my perspective, that the benefit of a few extra players earned is worth being associated in anyway with an operation like this.

The misleading nature of this list and its 'rankings' as presented to unknowing websurfers, and the tasteless cheating being allowed to skew that presentation, is pretty sad. Everyone here can see it, most folks are turned off by it, and respectable people who don't have to stoop to such tactics to survive will feel it is beneath them. Maybe if more of the other MUDs follow suit they'll start to get the picture and make some changes, maybe not. Achaea can have their little bought sandbox all to themselves and Synozeer can enjoy the 'traffic' of a hundred or so of their bribed players racing to vote twice a day. If that is what he actually wants here, then more power to him.

Cemm
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Old 10-07-2002, 11:25 AM   #39
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We don't offer incentives. That said, I don't think we could, given the structure of our game - players don't get experience, or platinum pieces, or anything like that. We could credit voters in our weekly update, as we do people who submit items or note typos, contribute docs, or whatever, but that seems pretty silly, and difficult to track. Our players vote because they like to see their mud up there in the top ten, and because they know that's one of the ways we get new players.

I think it's sleazy to offer incentives, but again, if it's sanctioned, it's sanctioned, and that's the call of the admins of the individual muds, I suppose, as to whether or not they want to participate in it.
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Old 10-07-2002, 02:12 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (SimuBubba @ Oct. 07 2002,01:49 am)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Well, DragonRealm's producer has posted here multiple times that he doesn't care in the last about being #1. We'll see though.

Please refrain from using me or my product as an example to try to make your points.

Sure, our players that are voting are encouraged to vote within the guidelines set up by Synozeer.    Multiple votes within the 12 hour timeframe do nothing but cost Adam extra bandwidth, so they're encouraged to vote once every twelve hours if they're so inclined.

Please don't even THINK of equating that with paying for votes.
I'm not, and I wouldn't have a problem with you paying your customers to vote. I just think it's odd that since you don't care in the least (your words) about being #1 that you'd encourage your players to vote at all, much less every 12 hours.

What I find a little irritating I guess is that you took such a better-than-thou attitude, claiming you told your players not to vote more than once every 24 hours and so on (I think you claimed this at least. I apologize if I'm getting that bit wrong), and claiming (repeatedly) that you don't care about being #1, though you obviously do.

Again, I have no problem with any conceivable method that you would use to get votes, aside from hacking into Adam's server and deleting your players IP records so that they could vote again.

--matt
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