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Old 11-04-2002, 06:06 AM   #21
Samson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Nov. 03 2002,9:35 pm)
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If Zugg sold you Zmud under the explicit assumption that you'd be receiving an issue of The Mud Companion in exchange for purchasing Zmud, then it is his responsibility to provide it to you. He made money off his promise to you.

--matt
Yes, and if Zugg can't get his free issue for him, then it lies with Mud Companion to take the blame for that. If they can't even fulfil what amounts to a corporate request, the company is already doomed. Could be time to start filing complaints with the Canadian equivalent of the Better Business Buerau. Then file appropriate claims with Paypal to have their account frozen since they seem to be unwilling to provide refunds for undelivered issues.
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Old 11-04-2002, 07:11 AM   #22
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Heya all,

I just received mud companion issue #3. I actually thought I would receive the newest mud companion with the zmud offer, but I don't mind, it's here and it was fun to read.

So Ike if you are still waiting, it might be coming soon.
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Old 11-04-2002, 11:54 AM   #23
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I am extremely sorry for all the mailing delays.

There have been some serious problems with mailing, and most of them have been monitary.

If you investigate the costs of operating a magazine, you will quickly find that to offer both printing and mailing of glossy cover magazine costs a hell of a lot more than $2.50US.

The costs behind this have to be carried by the advertisers.

If you take at look at the advertising rates (and also keep in mind that many of the current advertisers got large discounts or free ads in exchange for web-based advertising), compared to the number of actual ads printed in the magazine issues you have received, it should be quite clear that things didn't work out as planned.

The MCM incurred thousands of dollars of debt through production and mailing costs, all of which are my personal obligation.

Before I could send out the last batch of magazines, I had to pay down my account with the postal company.

Now before you start ranting about my contractal obligations to provide you with your magazine or refund your partial payment, nowhere on the website or through the signup process were you promised you would receive your issues within a particular timeframe.

All promised issues will be sent, and where back issues are unavailable to complete your promised number of issues in the case that no future issues are published, you will receive a partial refund.
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Old 11-04-2002, 12:33 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Samson @ Nov. 04 2002,06:06 am)
Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Nov. 03 2002,9:35 pm)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
If Zugg sold you Zmud under the explicit assumption that you'd be receiving an issue of The Mud Companion in exchange for purchasing Zmud, then it is his responsibility to provide it to you. He made money off his promise to you.

--matt
Yes, and if Zugg can't get his free issue for him, then it lies with Mud Companion to take the blame for that. If they can't even fulfil what amounts to a corporate request, the company is already doomed. Could be time to start filing complaints with the Canadian equivalent of the Better Business Buerau. Then file appropriate claims with Paypal to have their account frozen since they seem to be unwilling to provide refunds for undelivered issues.
Actually no, it lies entirely with Zugg. Someone who bought Zmud with the expectation (as created by an announcement on Zugg's site) that he would receive something free must be provided with that free something, or Zugg is engaged in fraud. If I purchase a cell phone plan that includes a free cell phone, and don't get that cell phone, it isn't the cell phone manufacturer that I have any legal right to go after. I go after whoever got me to fork over cash in exchange for goods they didn't deliver.

In the end, if Zugg refuses to make good on his obligation (for whatever reason. It's not your problem if his suppliers are having problems. Remember: He sold you something that he hasn't delivered. You paid him money, not The Mud Companion.) then he's obligated to either refund your money or make some other arrangement with you. The MUD Companion didn't promise you anything. It promised Zugg something, and Zugg promised you something.

--matt
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Old 11-04-2002, 01:33 PM   #25
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This thread has been bothering me for quite some time.

Let me start by saying, these are solely my opinions. If you must attack anyone because of them, I am the person you should attack.

I have always known that The Mud Companion costs more to make that my subscription covered. I could have received free copies because I had an article in every issue. I didn't though, because I felt bad because I knew that Thoric sunk a very large amount of money into the magazine to get it started. I also very strongly suspected that he never made that money back. I never realized the full extent of his losses. To be honest, I never asked, because I didn't really want to know.

Personally, I am very happy when I get something for less than I know its worth. I am ashamed when I get it at a great expense to someone else though. I think the manner in which Thoric and the magazine has been attacked is dispicable.

Everyone seems to want things for free, but they aren't willing to help in any way. All of the mud magazines are dying because people want to read them, but don't want to contribute to them. I can count on one hand the number of unsolicated articles that I received for The Art of Building in its five years of existance. That works out to one article per year. I never received any unsoliciated articles for the Builder's Bazaar section of The Mud Journal. I bet Mish is still having the same problem. I would not be surprised if Imaginary Realities died for similar reasons.

The community seems to be full of people who are willing to criticize, but very few who are willing to do anything constructive. Usually those who are willing get torn to shread by the rest. Calling the mud community an actual community is a stretch. For the most part, it is a bunch of arguing, bickering individuals who put self gratification above the community. Those who do care are eventually driven out by the packs of wolves that now exist.

Stop bickering and blaming. Do something to help rebuild the community. Contribute.

Thank you,
Neranz Laverani, Usually mild-mannered, but irrate as of late
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Old 11-04-2002, 01:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Neranz Laverani @ Nov. 04 2002,1:33 pm)
I have always known that The Mud Companion costs more to make that my subscription covered.
That is the case with many if not most magazines, you know. It's hardly unique to the Mud Companion. It's also the case for mainstream newspapers.

Nearly all publications have to endure being in the red for awhile until they can garner a sufficient readership to attract enough advertising to support it. The ownership of The Mud Companion's "crime" was not in any ill-intention, but simple naivete about the costs of starting a magazine. It sounds to me like he wasn't prepared for the almost guaranteed period of unprofitability.

Regardless however, he did take people's money and hasn't so far delivered on what he took the money for. Whatever his intentions were in putting out the magazine, he did take money in return for a service he hasn't so far provided. It's not really incumbent on the consumer to care what the financial difficulties of the content provider are once the consumer has paid for the content.

Still, it sounds to me like most people are only out a couple bucks, which is not a big deal by any stretch.

--matt
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Old 11-04-2002, 02:10 PM   #27
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No one is even out any money if you read Thoric's last statement.

There is still the issue that people want good magazines and websites, but don't want to help create them by contributing, then rag on the sites or magazines creators because the sites or magazines aren't timely or don't succeed. Many more people seem willing to take than to give. If everyone takes, nothing can be created. The "community" is devouring itself.
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Old 11-04-2002, 02:28 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by
Now before you start ranting about my contractal obligations to provide you with your magazine or refund your partial payment, nowhere on the website or through the signup process were you promised you would receive your issues within a particular timeframe.
I didn't want to get involved, but this simply isn't true. The notice has now been changed, but, as many people pointed out, it was previously stated on the main page that their issues of The Mud Companion would be mailed out in August. I believe the date was August 28 (I may be wrong on that), and it had 'will be mailed this week,' with the 'will be mailed' in bold text.

I am not taking sides in this, but I think both sides have a valid point. The Mud Companion isn't cheap to make, I have no doubt. People want what they paid for, again, I have no doubt.

From what I saw, most of these people have been highly understanding, mainly just wanting to be kept informed as to what is going on. Failing that, they wanted their money back. I'm sorry, but I don't see what is so bad with that.

Also, I seem to remember seeing somewhere that MCM was a quarterly magazine. Can't remember where though. I seem to remember it was in a post from Thoric, but I can't seem to find the post. Ah well.

Added:
Found some of the sites that had it.
http://www.mudconnect.com/affiliates.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Mud Companion - A printed quarterly magazine for MUD advocates, catering to both the people who play, and the people who administrate, build and code for MUDs. Each issue will feature a full color cover, with high quality artwork, and a wealth of valuable infomation on how to get the most out of playing MUDs, and also detailed articles on various aspects of running MUDs.
http://www.maxgaming.net/~hne/ - under the 'divisions' section, under the 'mud' section.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mud Companion Magazine
First Paper MUD Magazine.
Quarterly - Over 40 Pages!
http://www.onlineroleplay.com/Text-Based_MUDs/e-Zines/

Quote:
Originally Posted by
The MUD Companion - The Mud Companion is a quarterly magazine for MUD advocates, catering to both the people who play, and the people who administrate, build and code for MUDs. Each issue will feature a full color cover, with high quality artwork, and a wealth of valuable infomation on how to get the most out of playing MUDs, and also detailed articles on various aspects of running MUDs.
http://www.chainsmokingdryad.com/resource.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by
MUD Companion Magazine - The MUD Companion is a printed magazine dedicated to articles about building, coding, administration, role-playing ... everything about MUDs. It is very well-priced, and is published quarterly.
A post by Derek Snider to the SML

Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brought to you by members of the SMAUG team, the MUD community and MudWorld,
The Mud Companion is a quarterly magazine for MUD advocates, catering to
both the people who play, and the people who administrate, build and code
for MUDs.
There are tons of others at Google.

Also, Neranz, I sent you one article that I mentioned I would do, for the Builder's Bazaar thing, that you didn't solicit. I mentioned I would do it, and you had to remind me... but I offered to do it without being asked. So, it wasn't solicited.

I'm going to slink back into the shadows now.
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Old 11-04-2002, 02:49 PM   #29
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Also, I forgot to add this one:
The Mud Companion Website from July 21, 2001 (courtesy of the WayBack Machine)
Click the subscriptions link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
We are having an introductory special of a yearly, (four issue) subscription for $10 US! ($15 CDN for Canadian orders, and $15 US for International orders)
A yearly subscription are issues that will be received in one year. While you don't have to stick to a quarterly schedule with that, you DO have to make sure they get four issues in one year.

Click the Information Link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Mud Companion is a quarterly magazine for MUD advocates, catering to both the people who play, and the people who administrate, build and code for MUDs.
This, however, cements you into producing a quarterly magazine.

Also just to make sure, I checked this one. It was the same.

The Mud Companion Website from October 25, 2001 (courtesy of the WayBack Machine)

Anyway, I meant to go back into the shadows, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't losing my mind. *wave*

Now that everyone knows what is going on, if it is in your heart to do so... try to give Thoric a little slack.

Take care, all.
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Old 11-04-2002, 02:59 PM   #30
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You were casually talking about doing an article for another section of TMJ, administrative or roleplaying. I kidnapped you for the Bazaar. (I even tried to get you to write a series of rants for the magazine.) You were solicitated, but I won't tell your wife.

Obviously, you are someone who is willing to contribute to the community. Your websites alone prove this. Going outside of The Mud Companion discussion. Most people are not willing to contribute. They take and criticize but offer nothing valid in return. There are a few good people left, but the community is rotten at the core. Perhaps it always has been. Perhaps I have just been slow to notice it. This thread was the straw for me.
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Old 11-04-2002, 03:29 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
I have always known that The Mud Companion costs more to make that my subscription covered. I could have received free copies because I had an article in every issue. I didn't though, because I felt bad because I knew that Thoric sunk a very large amount of money into the magazine to get it started. I also very strongly suspected that he never made that money back. I never realized the full extent of his losses. To be honest, I never asked, because I didn't really want to know.

While I applaud the move to try and make a published magazine, I'm glad at this point that I did not subscribe to it. I thought about, read the website, but never saw any snippits of articles that made me want to purchase the subscription. But on the other hand what Thoric tried to do was make money on a hobby. This is not a bad thing. But he did it without a solid business plan. One in which they could see the magazine grow. Or when shown to someone else, they could see it grow.

The main problem with the business plan was that he tried to base it on existing magazines, where the advertisers carried most of the cost. The following is an assumption and I may be wrong, please let me know if it is. The majority of the advertisers were planned to be muds, and mud related resource sites, mud hosts, and possibly MMORPGS. The fault with this strategy is the following: Most muds are not P2P, and cannot afford advertising, most resource sites, barely make enough to keep the server running, mud hosts are probably the most profitable, but the magazine is targetted at administrators that already have servers, and MMORPGS have marketing departments, that probably aren't aware of the magazine.

If I were to subscribe to the magazine, I would be happy to pay $20US for a yearly subscription. As long as the product was relevant to me. I stopped my Subscription to Dragon, because it focused too much on FR, and not world development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
Everyone seems to want things for free, but they aren't willing to help in any way. All of the mud magazines are dying because people want to read them, but don't want to contribute to them. I can count on one hand the number of unsolicated articles that I received for The Art of Building in its five years of existance. That works out to one article per year. I never received any unsoliciated articles for the Builder's Bazaar section of The Mud Journal. I bet Mish is still having the same problem. I would not be surprised if Imaginary Realities died for similar reasons.
I wrote 8 Unsolicited articles for IR. Yes a couple of them were a day or two late. Behind Selina Kelley (An Editor) I was the most published writer there. I think the reason the IR died was because lack of time on the part of the Editors. And not having as many articles as they really wanted. I give back to the community the way I feel is best for me. I guide my own development, and talk to people who talk to me. The last Mudwide community thing I did was fill out an interview for Orion for his site. I am prolific enough to be found, and hopefully respected enough, all someone has to do is ask. Other then that I sit back, read, reply to comments, and hack away at my own code.

Can you really ask for anything else from a community of hobbyist on the internet?
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Old 11-04-2002, 03:47 PM   #32
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I wrote 8 Unsolicited articles for IR. Yes a couple of them were a day or two late. Behind Selina Kelley (An Editor) I was the most published writer there. I think the reason the IR died was because lack of time on the part of the Editors. And not having as many articles as they really wanted. I give back to the community the way I feel is best for me. I guide my own development, and talk to people who talk to me. The last Mudwide community thing I did was fill out an interview for Orion for his site. I am prolific enough to be found, and hopefully respected enough, all someone has to do is ask. Other then that I sit back, read, reply to comments, and hack away at my own code.

Can you really ask for anything else from a community of hobbyist on the internet?
What I am asking for is for people who do nothing but criticize to contribute instead, to do something constructive with their energy. There is nothing wrong with quietly sitting back coding and stepping up when asked. That is constructive not destructive.

If we want good global resources, we can only have them by contributing. They don't just happen on their own.
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Old 11-04-2002, 04:34 PM   #33
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Nearly all publications have to endure being in the red for awhile until they can garner a sufficient readership to attract enough advertising to support it. The ownership of The Mud Companion's "crime" was not in any ill-intention, but simple naivete about the costs of starting a magazine. It sounds to me like he wasn't prepared for the almost guaranteed period of unprofitability.
Unprofitability isn't as big a problem as incurring loses you aren't able to maintain. Although the bigger problem was lack of community support in general -- extremely disappointing was the lack of response from purchasers of zMUD.

I had expected that a good number of the people who were willing to pay for a MUD client would be willing to pay for a MUD magazine. I was sadly mistaken. Of the thousands of free magazines that got sent out, only a small handful ended up subscribing.


Quote:
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Regardless however, he did take people's money and hasn't so far delivered on what he took the money for. Whatever his intentions were in putting out the magazine, he did take money in return for a service he hasn't so far provided. It's not really incumbent on the consumer to care what the financial difficulties of the content provider are once the consumer has paid for the content.
A yearly subscription of a quarterly magazine means that you get four magazines per year. It doesn't guarantee that you will get them on an exact date.

The main reason that most of the issues came out late was because we received the articles and advertisements late. I'm sure we could have put the magazine out on time missing half of its content if that is what would have been preferable to the subscribers.

Technically I could mail out a four page leaflet for issue #5 and #6 and still fulfill my obligation. Nothing guarantees the number of pages or quality of the magazine. Even though I say, "Full color cover", I could scribble on the cover with a crayon and not be breaking any obligations.

Very few people have offered me continual support in this endeavor. The ones that have know who they are, and it should be quite obvious by looking at the magazines.

I had a vision of producing something to unite and liberate the MUD community. To give them their place in history in concrete form.

I certainly didn't do it for money, and you'd have to be insane to think that was any part of it. I did everything I could to make both advertising and subscription prices as rock bottom as possible, and had special discounts for non-profit sites.

I provided an outlet for people in the MUD community to show off their talents, be it coding, building, drawing or anything MUD related. I gave people the chance to get their work in print -- something to show their friends and family.

I wanted it to be professional looking, and impressive enough so that people could feel proud to hand the magazine to someone and say, "This is what I do."


Quote:
Originally Posted by
Still, it sounds to me like most people are only out a couple bucks, which is not a big deal by any stretch.
As I said, there was no time guarantee. As for what it said on the website, it said, "Mailing starts next week". That didn't say that mailing would be finished that week.

Most people are only out a few months of receiving their magazine. The magazines will be shipped, and in the case that we don't have enough magazines to fill subscriptions (i.e. we don't make any more issues), I will refund the difference.
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Old 11-04-2002, 04:56 PM   #34
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Arrow

Hi. I am a subscriber from Europe. Since I know from my own tabletop club how much problems a fan-magazine can cause and what effort is put in it, I was quite ok waiting.
However, I would have at least expected an answer to my numerous emails to the subscription email. I mean, I am ok waiting, if I know it will come, one day. *eg*
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Old 11-04-2002, 04:58 PM   #35
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Old 11-04-2002, 05:17 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Neranz Laverani @ Nov. 04 2002,3:47 pm)
What I am asking for is for people who do nothing but criticize to contribute instead, to do something constructive with their energy.  There is nothing wrong with quietly sitting back coding and stepping up when asked.  That is constructive not destructive.

If we want good global resources, we can only have them by contributing.  They don't just happen on their own.
You're asking for a lot from a community that looks down upon it's own an awful lot.

Administrators look down on players as twinks, cheaters, and headaches. With the of exceptional ones.

Players look at administrators as power freaks, children, and fun stoppers. With the exceptional ones.

In a community that has so much infighting and is disfragmented it becomes difficult to get contributions to the community. It is the exceptional ones that step foward. And there are only a handfull of those. I bet we could make a list that would number a little under 50 of people who are considered, exceptional in our community. And that's in a community of thousands.

What we need are people who try to build a community of exceptionals. There have been tries but no one has been able to do it. I think IR, MCM, TMC, TMS, are all examples of places where these exceptionals come to congregate, and exchange ideas.

Just my thoughts of the matter.
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Old 11-04-2002, 05:43 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Neranz Laverani @ Nov. 04 2002,2:10 pm)
There is still the issue that people want good magazines and websites, but don't want to help create them by contributing, then rag on the sites or magazines creators because the sites or magazines aren't timely or don't succeed.  Many more people seem willing to take than to give.  If everyone takes, nothing can be created.  The "community" is devouring itself.
The subscribers contributed by paying their money. In return they have the right to expect to get what they paid for. It's not the responsibility of the consumer to do anything beyond that.

--matt
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Old 11-04-2002, 07:10 PM   #38
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Thoric, the definition of a quarterly magazine is one that comes out every quarter. Does it mean you'll get it by a specific date? No, does it mean it'll be mailed out approximately every three months? Yes.

To quarter something is to create four equal pieces. To do 3 months, 3 months, 3 months, 7 months (or however long it has been) is not quarterly. You should change it to state that Mud Companion is a MUD magazine, and that a subscription is for four issues, however often they may come out.

Further more, you DID set specific dates by saying that the issues 'will be mailed this week.'

No offense, but you seem to have ignored my posts entirely, aside from the part about it being quarterly.
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Old 11-04-2002, 07:25 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Thoric @ Nov. 04 2002,4:34 pm)
[Unprofitability isn't as big a problem as incurring loses you aren't able to maintain.  Although the bigger problem was lack of community support in general -- extremely disappointing was the lack of response from purchasers of zMUD.

I had expected that a good number of the people who were willing to pay for a MUD client would be willing to pay for a MUD magazine.  I was sadly mistaken.  Of the thousands of free magazines that got sent out, only a small handful ended up subscribing.


A yearly subscription of a quarterly magazine means that you get four magazines per year.  It doesn't guarantee that you will get them on an exact date.

The main reason that most of the issues came out late was because we received the articles and advertisements late.  I'm sure we could have put the magazine out on time missing half of its content if that is what would have been preferable to the subscribers.

Technically I could mail out a four page leaflet for issue #5 and #6 and still fulfill my obligation.  Nothing guarantees the number of pages or quality of the magazine.  Even though I say, "Full color cover", I could scribble on the cover with a crayon and not be breaking any obligations.

Very few people have offered me continual support in this endeavor.  The ones that have know who they are, and it should be quite obvious by looking at the magazines.

I had a vision of producing something to unite and liberate the MUD community.  To give them their place in history in concrete form.

I certainly didn't do it for money, and you'd have to be insane to think that was any part of it.  I did everything I could to make both advertising and subscription prices as rock bottom as possible, and had special discounts for non-profit sites.

I provided an outlet for people in the MUD community to show off their talents, be it coding, building, drawing or anything MUD related.  I gave people the chance to get their work in print -- something to show their friends and family.

I wanted it to be professional looking, and impressive enough so that people could feel proud to hand the magazine to someone and say, "This is what I do."


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Still, it sounds to me like most people are only out a couple bucks, which is not a big deal by any stretch.
As I said, there was no time guarantee.  As for what it said on the website, it said, "Mailing starts next week".  That didn't say that mailing would be finished that week.

Most people are only out a few months of receiving their magazine.  The magazines will be shipped, and in the case that we don't have enough magazines to fill subscriptions (i.e. we don't make any more issues), I will refund the difference.
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Originally Posted by
Unprofitability isn't as big a problem as incurring loses you aren't able to maintain.
Nod, that's what I meant by running in the red.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
I had expected that a good number of the people who were willing to pay for a MUD client would be willing to pay for a MUD magazine. I was sadly mistaken. Of the thousands of free magazines that got sent out, only a small handful ended up subscribing.
Well, and this is intended only as a constructive comment, not as criticism, but the reason I didn't subscribe to it is because a paper magazine aimed at text MUDs seems out of place, and superfluous. It's not a medium that lends itself well to a glossy magazine, because there's no way to take a screenshot of your imagination, which is the canvas a MUD is painted on. There's also inevitably going to be a lack of quality content. I'm not trying to criticize anyone, but nearly all the articles written about text MUDs in particular (as opposed to virtual spaces in general) come off as somewhat amateurish. That's fine in the sense that most of the people doing the writing are hobbyists, but at the same time, it clashes with your goal of a glossy magazine. I really just think a website is a better medium for the information and target audience.

The reason I didn't advertise in it is because I didn't think it would get sufficient circulation, due to the above reasons. It wasn't about supporting anything to me, but about where to best place our advertising budget.


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Originally Posted by
A yearly subscription of a quarterly magazine means that you get four magazines per year. It doesn't guarantee that you will get them on an exact date.
Sure, I'd agree with that.

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Originally Posted by
The main reason that most of the issues came out late was because we received the articles and advertisements late. I'm sure we could have put the magazine out on time missing half of its content if that is what would have been preferable to the subscribers.
Understandable, though from a strictly commerce point of view, the buck stops with you. If the ads and articles aren't ready, it's your fault from the consumer's point of view. (I wasn't a consumer and have nothing against you at all. Fault doesn't have to carry negative ethical implications.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by
Technically I could mail out a four page leaflet for issue #5 and #6 and still fulfill my obligation. Nothing guarantees the number of pages or quality of the magazine. Even though I say, "Full color cover", I could scribble on the cover with a crayon and not be breaking any obligations.
Yep. You wouldn't look good, but hey, #### happens. If you formed a corporation or limited partnership/LLC to do it, you could simply shut down and not suffer any personal legal liability. Sole propietorships are cheap to declare and maintain, but the risk is greatly increased.


Quote:
Originally Posted by
I wanted it to be professional looking, and impressive enough so that people could feel proud to hand the magazine to someone and say, "This is what I do."
Check out www.mogonline.com. It's put out by Versus, but only covers graphical MUDs really (though Eternal City is listed on its list of games for some reason, oddly enough).

So I was going to guarantee a loan for someone when I was a bit younger, and went to the bank with my friend to talk to the loan officer. The loan officer wanted to speak to me alone, and once my friend was out of the room, he said to me (and I'll never forget this, as it was sound advice), "Matt, we're in the loan business. We're successful in the loan business. If your friend's credit isn't good enough for us, why is it good enough for you?" I poo-pood his advice saying I knew my friend better than the bank's credit scoring algorithm does and guaranteed the loan. My friend, of course, defaulted about 9 months later, leaving me to pay it or ruin my credit. He didn't do it with any malice. One just can't get blood from a stone, as the saying goes.

In other words, if Versus and Prima, who are very successful at doing printed game-related material, don't see the text MUD market as being able to support a flashy magazine, why did/do you? I mean, I'm not saying that they're automatically right. They may not have considered it (unlikely I'd say. They were just waiting for the online market to get big enough generally to support one), or may simply be slow in taking advantage of an opportunity, giving you the chance to do it first. But more likely, the reason is that they know the market isn't there to support the kind of magazine you want/wanted to do.

Anyway, I wish you luck, but my (unsolicited and therefore possibly rude) advice is to cut your losses now, and perhaps turn your attention towards a website.

--matt
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Old 11-04-2002, 07:27 PM   #40
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Ugh, sorry about that long superfluous quote from above.

--matt
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