Top Mud Sites Forum Return to TopMudSites.com
Go Back   Top Mud Sites Forum > Mud Development and Administration > MUD Administration
Click here to Register

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-25-2004, 08:57 PM   #1
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,301
the_logos will become famous soon enough
A consistently highly ranked mud was recently removed from TMS for cheating to inflate vote totals (I won't name it, but I'm sure most of you noticed its sudden absence from the top 5).

The new cheaters are Dawn of Eternity. I mean, give me a break. It's almost insulting that these morons think anyone's going to believe they're legit when their website doesn't even have a vote button that is easily found, and when their mud has a whole 3 players online currently.

I've mailed Adam about them and I'm sure he'll remove them promptly. I suppose this post wasn't necessary but cheaters are irritating.

--matt
the_logos is offline  
Old 05-25-2004, 09:24 PM   #2
prof1515
Senior Member
 
prof1515's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 791
prof1515 will become famous soon enoughprof1515 will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to prof1515 Send a message via Yahoo to prof1515
I don't always agree with you Matt but this time I'm in 100% agreement.  Running advanced searchs for certain features, I've spotted several other MUDs on the listing that I would say have rather dubious claims.  I intend to check them out a bit more thoroughly before I send in calling them on it but, regardless, it's sad when you run a search specifying certain conditions only to find when trying out the MUD that those conditions don't exist on half the games that came up in the search.

Maybe it's just ignorance on the part of the games' administrators and they simply don't know what certain terms mean or maybe it's deliberate lying/cheating.  Either way, it's false advertising and a bit of a frustrating let-down after you get your hopes up expecting something else based on their claims....

Anyway, take care,

Jason
prof1515 is offline  
Old 05-25-2004, 09:43 PM   #3
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,301
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by
I don't always agree with you Matt but this time I'm in 100% agreement. Running advanced searchs for certain features, I've spotted several other MUDs on the listing that I would say have rather dubious claims. I intend to check them out a bit more thoroughly before I send in calling them on it but, regardless, it's sad when you run a search specifying certain conditions only to find when trying out the MUD that those conditions don't exist on half the games that came up in the search.
Yeah, that's quite annoying, I agree. Having said that though, it's quite possible that those conditions have changed for that mud (like playerbase size, PK rules, class-based to classless, or vice-versa, etc etc) and they just didn't think to update their listing. If that's the case, it's quite forgiveable I'd think, as there's no malice intended. Cheating on the votes, on the other hand, is a blatantly malicious act, since it's a competition to get the top spots in order to get more traffic to your site and there's no way anyone is pumping votes at the site with a clever script or whatever thinking it's a legitimate practice.

--matt
the_logos is offline  
Old 05-25-2004, 10:12 PM   #4
Jazuela
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New England
Posts: 843
Jazuela will become famous soon enoughJazuela will become famous soon enough
Great minds think alike I guess Logos. I e-mailed Synozeer about Dawn of Eternity maybe 2 or 3 days after the vote reset. I noticed they had around 167 votes, and their game info said they only have between 6 and 10 players online at any given moment.

I figured there were probably double that amount of players who actually played - though not playing at the same time - and concluded that there was absolutely no possible way in the world 20 people would be capable of providing their game with 167 votes in 3 days even if all 20 voted twice a day.

Given that the votes only represent only SOME of the players in the games they play - since not everyone votes - just not possible, ya know?

Hopefully Synozeer will investigate and either put the concerns to rest by stating it's legit, or remove the game from the list if it proves to be a case of cheating.
Jazuela is offline  
Old 05-25-2004, 10:46 PM   #5
Janus
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 16
Janus is on a distinguished road
Talking

Yes, I'd noticed this happening too, posted a comment about it somewhere. It's getting a little irritating for someone with a bot to rack up the votes like that, particularly when it's impeding Imperian's rise to #1.

In seriousness though, it really is quite ridiculous to cheat like this, as apart from anything else said MUD is quickly outed and will probably loose more custom due to it establishing itself as not playing fairly. It also establishes hostility amongst those of us who work hard to provide a high standard of entertainment to such a level as to earn our votes fairly from the many loyal players whom choose to support us.

Try to earn the ranking. A lot of work goes into the MUDs up there legally, cheating cheapens the whole buisness.

Janus


Imperian
Janus is offline  
Old 05-25-2004, 11:23 PM   #6
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,301
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Imperian's admins eat tuna that isn't dolphin-safe. If it gets to #1, the pandas will also go extinct. Stop Imperian Now. (S.I.N.)

--matt
the_logos is offline  
Old 05-25-2004, 11:42 PM   #7
Jazuela
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New England
Posts: 843
Jazuela will become famous soon enoughJazuela will become famous soon enough
I not only eat tuna that isn't dolphin-safe, I also eat dolphins.

Do I win?
Jazuela is offline  
Old 05-26-2004, 12:49 AM   #8
Janus
New Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 16
Janus is on a distinguished road
Talking

Do not be fooled, SIN has been offically classified as the eighth deadliest thing in the world. Achaea's administrators are directly responsible for draining their players' souls in worship of their demonic mistress. It's in the small print of their Terms of Service, along with the blood of all customers' first born.

Support Imperian, save your soul.
Janus is offline  
Old 05-26-2004, 05:41 PM   #9
imported_Synozeer
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 88
imported_Synozeer is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up

Thanks for the heads up everyone. It's been taken care of.

Adam
imported_Synozeer is offline  
Old 05-27-2004, 03:29 PM   #10
Iluvatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 142
Iluvatar is on a distinguished road
Hmm, ever notice how Synozeer keeps growing Xs in his avatar? I bet he's keeping track of kills.
Iluvatar is offline  
Old 05-27-2004, 05:39 PM   #11
Rytorth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 364
Rytorth is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by
I bet he's keeping track of kills.
What is it that he's killing that he wants to keep track of?
Rytorth is offline  
Old 05-27-2004, 10:48 PM   #12
Dulan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 354
Dulan is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Dulan
Heh.

I find it vaguely ironic that the owner of Achaea of all people would be crying foul on people cheating.

Anyways, back to lurking!
Dulan is offline  
Old 05-28-2004, 12:19 AM   #13
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,301
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Why's that? I'm the resident expert on our games, and none of them have ever cheated, in any way. If you have information that neither I nor Synozeer have, I'm sure both of us would enjoy hearing it.

--matt
the_logos is offline  
Old 05-28-2004, 12:23 AM   #14
Geras
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 36
Geras is on a distinguished road
They cheat by having a name that sounds like Ayatollah and get the terrorist vote. *nods sagely*
Geras is offline  
Old 05-28-2004, 12:55 AM   #15
Dulan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 354
Dulan is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Dulan
Exp for clicking on a link.

New rules about cheating/votes.

Enough said.
Dulan is offline  
Old 05-28-2004, 01:17 AM   #16
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,301
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Dulan @ May 27 2004,23:55)
Exp for clicking on a link.

New rules about cheating/votes.

Enough said.
Yes. Once the new rules were made, it became illegal. As we were in communication with Synozeer about those very rules changes, we ceased before the rules were changed.

Perhaps you're not aware of this, but if you were to outlaw smoking today, those who had smoked in the past would not become law-breakers retroactively. If you believe that's not the case, and that a change in the rules is retroactive, perhaps you should mail Synozeer and let him know that you believe we should be banned for something we did that was not against the rules when we did it. I'm sure he'll mail you back with an appropriate, and (in your case) unduly polite, response.

--matt
the_logos is offline  
Old 05-28-2004, 01:57 AM   #17
Dulan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 354
Dulan is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Dulan
-sigh-

And yet, you miss the point, as always, Sarapis.

It was only one MUDs (Group of MUDs?) actions that made it illegal.

I'd argue that it was because only one MUD (Group?) had the technical expertise and the will to do such a thing, but it'll rapidly become an exercise in circular logic likely. Either that, or you quickly jumping on the most convenient logical fallacy.

Either way, too much effort for no gain. -heads back to lurker mode-

-D
Dulan is offline  
Old 05-28-2004, 03:12 AM   #18
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,301
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by
It was only one MUDs (Group of MUDs?) actions that made it illegal.
How odd. It was an open secret that many MUDs engaged in the practice. And as you say, it was made illegal. It wasn't illegal when we were doing it. Thus, anyone doing it wasn't cheating until the rule was changed. It's not complicated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
I'd argue that it was because only one MUD (Group?) had the technical expertise and the will to do such a thing, but it'll rapidly become an exercise in circular logic likely.
Heh, the technical expertise required is trivial. Every MUD in the top 20 has it. There's little doubt we forced the change in the rules, but considering Synozeer knew about it for 6 months before the rules were changed, it obviously wasn't some big crisis. What's kind of amusing is that we get more votes now than we did then, and we don't offer rewards for voting anymore. We're just good at motivating our players to vote, as is Aardwolf.

--matt
the_logos is offline  
Old 05-28-2004, 03:21 AM   #19
Hardestadt
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 84
Hardestadt is on a distinguished road
Oh my! Someone on a TMS forum going after Sarapis with little or no grounds for their baseless accusations?!

SOMEONE CALL THE NEWSPAPERS!

Leigh
CTO
Persistent Realms LLC
Hardestadt is offline  
Old 05-28-2004, 05:32 AM   #20
Gacilly
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1
Gacilly is on a distinguished road
As a player of all of Iron Realms MUDs (especially Achaea) for a long time, I'd just like to say that they don't need to cheat, nor do they as most people realise anyway.

Why do they have 3 games in the top five? Because they run good, interesting games for people with all interests; because they work damned hard to make sure all issues are dealt with quickly and that their players are looked after and, most of all, they spend a lot of time developing new areas, events and games to make sure that the MUD boredom doesn't set in.

Go Sarapis! You're doing a good job!
Gacilly is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools


More cheating eh? - Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Materia Magica's cheating ways the_logos Tavern of the Blue Hand 125 09-22-2014 11:38 AM
Cheating allegations... Molly MUD Administration 19 11-01-2004 08:15 PM
Voting Policies?  Cheating Rundvelt Bugs and Suggestions 111 06-21-2004 08:08 AM
Ages of Despair...cheating Andris Tavern of the Blue Hand 24 12-29-2003 09:25 AM
ooc cheating OnyxFlame Roleplaying and Storytelling 22 05-20-2003 08:10 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Style based on a design by Essilor
Copyright Top Mud Sites.com 2014