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Old 04-21-2008, 10:42 PM   #181
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

Thank you for the invitation. I think the only important thing is that everyone can search and advertise clearly and concisely. I think IRP is an excellent term.
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Old 04-22-2008, 12:56 AM   #182
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

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Originally Posted by Jazuela View Post
I've no interest in any games like yours. If you include your own game in the category of IRP, then I definitely am NOT looking for an IRP. I'm looking for something that fits similar criteria of what Fifi is looking for, what Delerak has outlined, what several of us have attempted to describe. Come up with a name for that category, exclude yourself from it, and let me know when the name is ready for people to use.
I thought I did. It was called MUSHI, ARP, RPI, or RBM. I and most would not use any of those terms to define the special games you like. And Jazuela, there is an entire web page devoted to the games you claim to want to play. How hard is it to go there and play all the games listed?
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Old 04-22-2008, 01:30 AM   #183
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

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I thought I did. It was called MUSHI, ARP, RPI, or RBM. I and most would not use any of those terms to define the special games you like. And Jazuela, there is an entire web page devoted to the games you claim to want to play. How hard is it to go there and play all the games listed?
Rpimud.com is flawed. Even though I have my mud listed there it's kind of joke because a lot of muds that are on the site are not RPI muds in my opinion, they share SOME qualities of an RPI mud but not all that fit into place to make it what 99% of all players who play Armageddon, Shadows of Isildur, or Harshlands feel might be an RPI.

I've logged into a few muds at rpimud.com and turned right around, so unfortunately the flaws exist even there.
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Old 04-22-2008, 01:31 AM   #184
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

I can't believe it, but I'm actually tired of arguing about this.. Hah, that's a first for me. I'm always willing to argue and debate but I'm ready to wave the white flag on this thread.
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Old 04-22-2008, 03:02 PM   #185
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

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Come up with a name for that category, exclude yourself from it, and let me know when the name is ready for people to use.
ARP - Armageddon style Role Playing.
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Old 04-22-2008, 03:04 PM   #186
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

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Originally Posted by Threshold View Post
ARP - Armageddon style Role Playing.
Again you fail to realize that the point is not a style of roleplaying, it's a set of features. RPI MUD has nothing to do with the quality of roleplay you'll find at an RPI MUD but the type of mud it is with set of features.

Also most muds probably don't want to use another muds name to describe what type of mud they are, much less the quality or type of roleplay is going to be similar to that mud. I don't think any admin would want to do that. I highly doubt SoI would ever want to be labelled an ARP.. heh.
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Old 04-22-2008, 03:30 PM   #187
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

So have the people you consider to be RPI get together, come up with a community name for themselves, and tack that onto the beginning of Feature Set. There may even be a better way of doing it but having spent a good 4 hours today beating my head against a brick wall whilst trying to do something with MySQL, only to notice the door right next to where I was headbutting, my brain isn't working very well

If they decided to call themselves Gemini then you'd have the acronym GFS. Nice, unambiguous, and completely unlikely to be hijacked by anyone and even if someone does you can point out the features it's missing.
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Old 04-22-2008, 03:56 PM   #188
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

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Originally Posted by Xerihae View Post
So have the people you consider to be RPI get together, come up with a community name for themselves, and tack that onto the beginning of Feature Set. There may even be a better way of doing it but having spent a good 4 hours today beating my head against a brick wall whilst trying to do something with MySQL, only to notice the door right next to where I was headbutting, my brain isn't working very well

If they decided to call themselves Gemini then you'd have the acronym GFS. Nice, unambiguous, and completely unlikely to be hijacked by anyone and even if someone does you can point out the features it's missing.
Some of those people did get together. They came up with a community name for themselves. That name is:

RPI.

It has been RPI for over a decade. It probably will continue to be RPI, for as long as this category of game continues to exist, no matter who here on this one game forum among many, would demand otherwise.
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Old 04-22-2008, 05:10 PM   #189
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

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Some of those people did get together. They came up with a community name for themselves. That name is:

RPI.

It has been RPI for over a decade. It probably will continue to be RPI, for as long as this category of game continues to exist, no matter who here on this one game forum among many, would demand otherwise.
Feel free, just don't start whining when games that don't match your "feature list" use the term because they're roleplay intensive, and don't start insulting said games because you feel you should have special dispensation to use the term solely in the way you and the rest of the "RPI" community want to.

BTW, "you" is directed at the RPI community, not specifically you Jazuela

Ironically, if you went down the road I mentioned you could probably come up with a nice, unambiguous acronym, that I'm sure TMS and TMC would be happy to add to their listing stuff and would allow the people who want that feature set to find said games quickly, easily, and without any others coming up. If the feature set was posted, you could bring claims against people using the term falsely to the relevant admins and after checking the evidence said people abusing the new term could have it taken off their listing.

Since you're all determined to continue with an ambiguous acronym, I guess it won't happen. Shame.
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Old 04-22-2008, 06:19 PM   #190
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerihae View Post
Feel free, just don't start whining when games that don't match your "feature list" use the term because they're roleplay intensive, and don't start insulting said games because you feel you should have special dispensation to use the term solely in the way you and the rest of the "RPI" community want to.

BTW, "you" is directed at the RPI community, not specifically you Jazuela

Ironically, if you went down the road I mentioned you could probably come up with a nice, unambiguous acronym, that I'm sure TMS and TMC would be happy to add to their listing stuff and would allow the people who want that feature set to find said games quickly, easily, and without any others coming up. If the feature set was posted, you could bring claims against people using the term falsely to the relevant admins and after checking the evidence said people abusing the new term could have it taken off their listing.

Since you're all determined to continue with an ambiguous acronym, I guess it won't happen. Shame.
So you would consider "Gemini" to be an unambiguous term...are we now going to spend the next 5 pages defining ambiguous, and STILL be exactly where we started, over 10 years ago.

The thing is, nothing has changed in 10 years. And I see no reason why it has to change to something other than RPI. Just change the meaning of the three letters. Just say - "RPI is NOT an acronym. The letters don't stand for anything at all. They are just three letters designated to define this set of game features."

If you do that, then there's no problem, right? Just eliminate the idea that "RPI" stands for roleplay intensive. Which, if you want to get really anal about it, would be RI, not RPI. Since roleplay is one word, or at most, a hyphenated word. In which case it would be R-PI, not RPI. Or perhaps, R.-P.I. So everyone who claims RPI stands for roleplay intensive is wrong, already.

There. Problem solved.
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Old 04-22-2008, 08:41 PM   #191
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

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Originally Posted by Jazuela View Post
So you would consider "Gemini" to be an unambiguous term...are we now going to spend the next 5 pages defining ambiguous, and STILL be exactly where we started, over 10 years ago.

The thing is, nothing has changed in 10 years. And I see no reason why it has to change to something other than RPI. Just change the meaning of the three letters. Just say - "RPI is NOT an acronym. The letters don't stand for anything at all. They are just three letters designated to define this set of game features."

If you do that, then there's no problem, right? Just eliminate the idea that "RPI" stands for roleplay intensive. Which, if you want to get really anal about it, would be RI, not RPI. Since roleplay is one word, or at most, a hyphenated word. In which case it would be R-PI, not RPI. Or perhaps, R.-P.I. So everyone who claims RPI stands for roleplay intensive is wrong, already.

There. Problem solved.
That'd work.. If Average Joe the mud player didn't think RPI relate to roleplay intense.

Over a decade ago, You chose two letters in your 'tag' too outline game mechanics which are commonly used to mean "roleplay" and you're bitching that they're getting it wrong.


It'd be like Threshold coining the term PKI for muds which have a feature set which promotes PK and then getting ****ed when every PvP mud out there starts using PKI to distinguish there mud.
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Old 04-22-2008, 09:14 PM   #192
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

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Originally Posted by Jazuela View Post
The thing is, nothing has changed in 10 years. And I see no reason why it has to change to something other than RPI.
Actually a lot has changed. 10 years ago, this discussion could not even happen. Everyone would leap to the defense of the ARP games and flame anyone else into oblivion. But over time, more people have come to realize how vague and snobby the "RPI" term is both in meaning and usage. 10 years ago, the percentage of MUDs that focussed on role playing was pretty small. There are a lot more MUDs that focus on Role Play (either as MUSHes, RPEs, RPIs, ARPs, or some other classification) because role play is something MUDs can actually do as well or better than graphical MMOs. So things have changed in a very significant way in the last 10 years.

I think what we are seeing is the final, inevitable end to the exclusivity of this RPI term. It is going to continue to be used more widely, and it will continue to gravitate towards what the words actually mean: role playing intensive games. A year from now, RPI will be used even more widely by a more diverse set of muds than it is now.

So people who make and play ARP style muds have a few options available to them.

1) Think of a specific, non-generic term. Preferably one with some proper nouns in it to completely avoid what you consider "misuse." You cannot really hope to control a term if it uses normal words rather than proper nouns.

2) Let it go. Continue to use the term but stop getting your panties in a bunch if someone else uses the term differently.

3) Crai more n00b.

So far, most of the ARP enthusiasts on this forum have been going with #3. That's fine and I am certainly not going to try and stop them, but it isn't very productive and it just makes them look silly.
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Old 04-22-2008, 11:56 PM   #193
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazuela View Post
The thing is, nothing has changed in 10 years. And I see no reason why it has to change to something other than RPI. Just change the meaning of the three letters. Just say - "RPI is NOT an acronym. The letters don't stand for anything at all. They are just three letters designated to define this set of game features."

If you do that, then there's no problem, right? Just eliminate the idea that "RPI" stands for roleplay intensive. Which, if you want to get really anal about it, would be RI, not RPI. Since roleplay is one word, or at most, a hyphenated word. In which case it would be R-PI, not RPI. Or perhaps, R.-P.I. So everyone who claims RPI stands for roleplay intensive is wrong, already.

There. Problem solved.
If RPI has no meaning other than a moniker for a set of features.. they why in the world is it used? It has *nothing* to denote that it is merely a feature set. Also.. if it is not an acronym, then stop whining when others have an acronym that denotes the standard of RP quality. Another thing.. if RPI has no real meaning other than sme arbitrary method to denote a set of features... why in the world use those letters? They have to have some actual meaning beyond "Waaaaaahhhh!! They are using it to denote quality/amount/intensity of RolePlay. Those are our letters we pulled out of out collective ***es because we wanted to have something to denote a set of features we want. Oh and we just chose these.. well.. just because."

Oh wait.. what did I just say? I use RP. Why is that? Could it be that RP has been the standard short form for Roleplay? It has been that way for longer than I have known about MUDs.. which incidentally is coming on 15 years or so... RP was used for Roleplay long before RPI came along. You dirty thieves! Gimme my R and P back!

You whine about it being *just* a feature set. If that is the case, then actually devise a system that makes it *obvious*. Society and cultures evolve and adapt over time MUDs are no different. Honestly, it looks like the Armageddon Feature Set crowd is outnumbered now as far as what people assume to be an RPI. Deal with it.. or adapt.

Kerrida
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Old 04-23-2008, 12:31 AM   #194
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

Silly people. This was all coming to a close and you opened it up again. Delerak said he didn't want to debate anymore and we are going back in circles. While fun, this has a dizzying effect.
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Old 04-23-2008, 12:37 AM   #195
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

Perhaps if we can't share, we can take turns. I'll devise a ridiculously complicated system to determine down to the minute, who gets to use RPI, and what it means at the time. But only if I get to go first. This week, I want RPI to mean "Really Playerkilling Intensive", and if your MUD doesn't fit into that, you all have to change your RPI's to something else until I'm done.
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Old 04-23-2008, 12:45 AM   #196
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

The war is far from over. Just because more people at TMS think that RPI should be freely used amongst any person who runs a stock mud and thinks that they have the best roleplay around doesn't make it true or right.

But whatever, what do I know? I've just been mudding for the past 12 years.
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Old 04-23-2008, 12:58 AM   #197
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

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The war is far from over. Just because more people at TMS think that RPI should be freely used amongst any person who runs a stock mud and thinks that they have the best roleplay around doesn't make it true or right.

But whatever, what do I know? I've just been mudding for the past 12 years.
What's the difference between a stock mud and a ripoff copy of features from say...Armeggedon? Wouldn't that be a "stock" ARP by definition. I mean, the biggest problem Delerak is your blatant use of terms as if there is something better about your definition of an intensive roleplaying mud.

The entire time you've been shown that there isn't, but it is all opinion. When will you just accept that?

More importantly. You keep popping off about Stock Muds. Would you name those "stock" muds that do what you claim above, for I've yet to meet them.
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Old 04-23-2008, 01:04 AM   #198
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

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What's the difference between a stock mud and a ripoff copy of features from say...Armeggedon? Wouldn't that be a "stock" ARP by definition. I mean, the biggest problem Delerak is your blatant use of terms as if there is something better about your definition of an intensive roleplaying mud.

The entire time you've been shown that there isn't, but it is all opinion. When will you just accept that?

More importantly. You keep popping off about Stock Muds. Would you name those "stock" muds that do what you claim above, for I've yet to meet them.
My point is that you are all saying it's okay for stock muds to use the term. Even though RPI's are a small niche in the community, they just wanted to be left alone with the term that they originated a decade (or longer) ago. The fact that you all just want to blatantly use it doesn't say much about you or your muds. It's essentially the same as any other term that gets mis-used anywhere, it doesn't have to just apply to MUDs, but the easiest analogies would be MUSHes or DIkU's. But we're comparing codebases now to simply a set of features within a mud. The problem is the RP in the word, "Roleplaying" is the big thing now for muds to try and draw people to them, yet in my mind the best roleplaying you can find is at RPI muds, why? Because the set of features forces you into a realistic setting of roleplay, where there are no distractions. I don't care if it sounds elitist, everyone wants their mud to draw "Roleplayers" but they can't even say they've tried a true RPI mud.

This isn't just a personal preference like everyone has been saying in this whole thread. Fir me from an actor's standpoint I can firmly say that I could never get in-character on stage if people were constantly talking about other things while I was acting (OOC channels), or if I saw somebodys real name all the time instead of their character (Short Descriptions/Main Descriptions). I can continue making analogies like these ones but honestly it won't matter because you guys trying to defend the use of RPI to anyone who wants to use it fail to realize it. Until you can say you've tried an RPI mud and have honestly tried to apply yourself to it's rules, boundaries, limitations, or whatever you want to call them, you'll never understand the viewpoint of an RPI player.
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Old 04-23-2008, 01:35 AM   #199
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

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This isn't just a personal preference like everyone has been saying in this whole thread. Fir me from an actor's standpoint I can firmly say that I could never get in-character on stage if people were constantly talking about other things while I was acting (OOC channels), or if I saw somebodys real name all the time instead of their character (Short Descriptions/Main Descriptions). I can continue making analogies like these ones but honestly it won't matter because you guys trying to defend the use of RPI to anyone who wants to use it fail to realize it. Until you can say you've tried an RPI mud and have honestly tried to apply yourself to it's rules, boundaries, limitations, or whatever you want to call them, you'll never understand the viewpoint of an RPI player.
That is such a crock. First, most players are doing multi tasking when they play any mud including talking on AIM with there little buddies about who they should PK on your MUD, please do not be so naive that you think they don't.

Second, all of your arguments can be backhanded to you in full measure to show how lame some of your features are and the style of functionality. But that is pure opinion as well.

I really think this isn't the thread to get into "I'm better than you because of a,b, and c."
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Old 04-23-2008, 12:51 PM   #200
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Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud.

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That is such a crock. First, most players are doing multi tasking when they play any mud including talking on AIM with there little buddies about who they should PK on your MUD, please do not be so naive that you think they don't.

Second, all of your arguments can be backhanded to you in full measure to show how lame some of your features are and the style of functionality. But that is pure opinion as well.

I really think this isn't the thread to get into "I'm better than you because of a,b, and c."
Yes, we're derailing but it does relate to the guidelines for an RPI somewhat. Anyway.. it's not about being better. I've played a lot of muds over the years and the reason I've stuck to RPI is because of the quality of roleplay I've found at them.

You make a point when you say people might be on aim or somewhere else, but the fact of the matter is that they are not subjected to out of character discussion inside the mud itself, that is what counts and matters. As I matured over the years I started realizing these small tiny facts and when I first started acting on stage I even realized them further, how can you claim that you have a roleplaying atmosphere when you can't even get in character on the mud? Obviously people will say they can get in-character no matter what, but until you've seen the differences between RPI muds and the other muds out there you simply can't understand or compare the two.
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