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Old 11-18-2009, 12:38 PM   #1
Vendayn
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Looking for a MUD (tired of playing MMOs)

So, I'm getting tired of playing MMOs...but I don't want to play a MUD in MMO form.

Things I'm looking for:
-Fantasy (this is important)...but, I'll take a Sci-fi or other genre based game as well if it has what I'm looking for. Now that I've typed this, Sci-fi, Post Apoc or other genre would actually be pretty cool too, as would Fantasy.
-GM led/made events (this is important too, like monster invasions or something like that)
-maybe PvP but not really required, better if optional, but it doesn't matter too much
-Population doesn't matter too much, but if I go in-game and the game world is completely empty...then that isn't any fun either. I think 10+ people on at once, or at least close to that, is better. More is better as well of course, but I won't be too picky.

-No forced roleplay (I'm kind of new to MUDs, I do learn quick most of the times, but...I tried a RP MUD and was horrible at it. Tried trading with someone, no idea how to trade, and I couldn't ask what commands or anything on how to trade, so we sat there for like 30 minutes before he left. There were help files, but it was rather confusing and by time I got done trying to figure out, he left. And I'm not really a good RPer anyway, guess its a learning process though. RP is nice though, but I want to avoid hardcore RP for now.)

-No cash shop like Iron Realms MUDs have...I don't care too much if there is some kind of bonuses to paying, but in Iron Realms MUDs if you don't pay tons of money, you won't be anywhere near good enough to PvP as those who pay

And here is the unique stuff:
-Non-static MUD, I don't mean by where players change things by PvP and taking territory or whatever (that is fine too), but I mean, I can play over a period of months and see changes, the game world doesn't stay the same. This one is harder to explain, because a non-static game would pretty tough to do...but I don't want the world to just stay the same all the time, maybe things change by events or something...guess that sums it up

-Unique skill/stat/class system...not sure what that would be, but...yeah

-Good crafting system, I love crafting

-Good story/lore progression, this kinda fits in with the non-static world.

-MUD is regularly updated, sort of like the Simutronics MUDs...they have updates all the time on their website. I like that, shows the MUD/game is alive and active, and not forgotten about or an afterthought.

and last but not least, I don't want a MUD in MMO form, or anything that is closely similar to a MMO...MMOs are all graphics, barely any gameplay (except endless grinding). I'm looking for something more...sophisticated...which I know MUDs can have WAY better gameplay than MMOs can, so that is what I'm looking for.

Things I don't like:

-There are some MUDs with those graphical maps as you travel, and its like playing a 2d game, but not...I don't really like MUDs like that, nor MUDs like Aardwolf (is that considered a DIKU mud?) If so, I don't like any of the DIKU based ones. They are too MMO like for me. Don't want to play anything similar to a DIKU mud either, I've tried a few of the good ones, and didn't like them at all. Everyone likes diff stuff though, just I myself really don't like them.

and I think that about sums up what I'm looking for (and not looking for)...I'll add if I think of anything else.
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Old 11-18-2009, 03:15 PM   #2
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Re: Looking for a MUD (tired of playing MMOs)

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Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
Wait, there was one DIKU mud I do like, that I play occasionally. Its the Wheel of Time MUD...think its only DIKU mud I've found that I've liked.
There are several hundred Diku muds. If you could pinpoint exactly what you liked from one and disliked from the other, it might make it easier to give better suggestions (there are many non-Diku muds as well, but they may have the same features you dislike).

Likewise, the main difference between a MUD and a MMO is that the latter has a mandatory custom graphical client - from a server-side perspective they're basically the same thing. You've said you dislike grinding, but most muds require a fair amount of time investment to reach the top (and some players tend to use the term 'grind' to refer to any activity they can't be bothered to do). Is it the combat you're bored of? The questing? Something else?

Regarding the other features you mentioned, most muds have a fantasy theme, few have required PK or RP, and a relatively small number are pay-for-perks. The "population" and "change" you mentioned tend to be mutually exclusive, as most players dislike change - but most places tend to find a middle ground, which seems to be what you're after. Most muds with a graphical map allow you to switch it off.
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Old 11-18-2009, 03:31 PM   #3
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Re: Looking for a MUD (tired of playing MMOs)

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Originally Posted by KaVir View Post
There are several hundred Diku muds. If you could pinpoint exactly what you liked from one and disliked from the other, it might make it easier to give better suggestions (there are many non-Diku muds as well, but they may have the same features you dislike).

Likewise, the main difference between a MUD and a MMO is that the latter has a mandatory custom graphical client - from a server-side perspective they're basically the same thing. You've said you dislike grinding, but most muds require a fair amount of time investment to reach the top (and some players tend to use the term 'grind' to refer to any activity they can't be bothered to do). Is it the combat you're bored of? The questing? Something else?

Regarding the other features you mentioned, most muds have a fantasy theme, few have required PK or RP, and a relatively small number are pay-for-perks. The "population" and "change" you mentioned tend to be mutually exclusive, as most players dislike change - but most places tend to find a middle ground, which seems to be what you're after. Most muds with a graphical map allow you to switch it off.
Its not the grinding really (I don't care if there is any), its when all there is to do is kill mobs over and over and thats it. I like variety, like... crafting, PvPing if I feel like it, just sitting around talking...or just fighting if thats what I want, or countless other things to do. Like Aardwolf, maybe I missed it...but, it seemed to focus heavily on hack and slash more than anything. And I don't think the world really ever changed, it was kind of static. I guess I haven't really played too many DIKU muds, I've played more than Aardwolf, but now I forgot what the other ones were.

And yeah, I'm looking for a middle ground in change. I don't want things to be completely static, as that ruins the feel of the world if nothing changes, ever. Thats one thing I greatly dislike about most MMOs...their worlds are completely static.

as for the map, its not the map exactly...but, its the "zones" that I don't like, that seem to come with DIKU muds. By that I mean, to enter say..."Forest of Jewels" you need to go EXACTLY on 32Y 42X, if you go one room over, you are still not in forest of jewels,...you have to actually enter the zone at that exact location, which isn't really part of the world. So you can go all the way around the "entrance" but still not be in Forest of Jewels. Maybe this just comes with the MUD territory, but I thought I remember the Iron Realms ones, the zones were actually part of the world. Maybe because of the map, it stuck out more...honestly, kinda new to MUDs, so not sure if this is all of them or not. But I thought I've played some, where the zones were actually part of the world, and not in an "instance" so to speak. I remember there was one MUD that was like that at least, or a couple that I played...but my memory sucks...

(edit)

But, the "zones" actually don't really bother me...so that couldn't have been it. I think it was mostly the hack and slash style gameplay I didn't like, and the very static feeling world, without a lot (if any, I didn't find it) story to it

I kind of want a MUD that feels like I'm really part of that world, immersion in other words...I'm new to MUDs, so not sure exactly what I'm looking for....so its hard for me to know what exactly I want, but I sorta do at same time.

Last edited by Vendayn : 11-18-2009 at 04:10 PM. Reason: spelling mistakes+new additions
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Old 11-18-2009, 08:26 PM   #4
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Re: Looking for a MUD (tired of playing MMOs)

Lets see....

I would suggest either New Worlds or Geas. I've played both. I'm currently playing New Worlds again and am enjoying it... In NW there are a variety of things to do that you can choose from. There is a merchant guild but I'm not too sure about it, exactly what you do in it. I know you cook things and change people's appearances and can make armour and stuff (I'm not sure how the making of armour and clothes goes though). You can kill mobs, fish, plant flowers/vegetables.. deep sea fish on a ship, whaling on a different ship... I think there's even battle on the sea that's possible. And the RP community is easy to find. Especially after you join a guild. You have to RP to join a guild to begin with.

In geas... there are multitudes of things to do! Never ending almost. Its a level-less classless MUD though so its a lot different than NW. There are crafting guilds and other guilds to join, you can join more than one at a time. The RP community is a little harder to find on there but not impossible. Most of the crafting and things you do are "time based" so to speak.. you do something for a limited time and then you can repeat it. You get better by doing it.

Both are fantasy based
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Old 11-19-2009, 05:29 AM   #5
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Re: Looking for a MUD (tired of playing MMOs)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
Its not the grinding really (I don't care if there is any), its when all there is to do is kill mobs over and over and thats it. I like variety, like... crafting, PvPing if I feel like it, just sitting around talking...or just fighting if thats what I want, or countless other things to do.
Most muds tend to have an emphasis on combat (the main exception being hardcore RP muds, which you've said you want to avoid), but many do have other activities. It's also not uncommon for people to play multiple muds, which they alternate between depending on what they feel like at the time - as there's (usually) no monthly subscription, there's no reason why you couldn't do the same. But if you want to stick with a single mud, then I'd suggest looking out for features like crafting, extensive quests, minigames, player-run shops/guilds/etc, player-driven economy, trainable pets, optional RP, optional PK, arena battles, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
And yeah, I'm looking for a middle ground in change. I don't want things to be completely static, as that ruins the feel of the world if nothing changes, ever.
I'd assumed earlier you were talking about a world which the admin frequently update - but this recent post suggests you may be talking about a game in which the players can permanently change their environment. If it's the latter you're after, I'm afraid there are very few muds that allow such freedom, and those that do always seem to use a wilderness/overland system (otherwise you could end up with players permanently destroying hundreds of hours work by setting fire to villages).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
as for the map, its not the map exactly...but, its the "zones" that I don't like, that seem to come with DIKU muds. By that I mean, to enter say..."Forest of Jewels" you need to go EXACTLY on 32Y 42X, if you go one room over, you are still not in forest of jewels,...you have to actually enter the zone at that exact location, which isn't really part of the world. So you can go all the way around the "entrance" but still not be in Forest of Jewels.
Ah, what you're talking about here is a typical wilderness/overland system. It isn't standard in Diku, although there are snippets for adding it, so it's also not an uncommon feature. The majority of muds don't have such a system, but sadly it doesn't appear to be a search option, so you'd have to check manually. Such muds typically list themselves as having the largest possible world size, and their description usually includes some comment about having a wilderness or overland, or having a "really big world", or describes how you can interact with the environment by chopping down trees, digging mines, etc. But if you're not sure, you can just ask when you connect to the mud.

In addition to the suggestions made by Saire, you might also want to check out:

* 4 Dimensions (4dimensions.org 6000) - very rich well-written world, strong emphasis on quests.

* Aeonian Dreams (dreams.game-host.org 4000) - lots of player-run/created stuff and a load of minigames.

* Realms of Despair (realmsofdespair.com 4000) - huge playerbase, lots of social groups (clans, orders, etc).

They may not be quite what you're after, but I think they're in the right direction, and should at least help you get a clearer idea of what exactly you want.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:50 AM   #6
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Re: Looking for a MUD (tired of playing MMOs)

The challenge that I'm having in diagnosing your request is that you want an immersive world without grinding, but not RP-enforced. Most games that come to mind based on the majority of your requests would be level-less games and RPIs. However, I cannot think of a game that is immersive with a non-static world, has crafting, is anti-grind and is not RP Enforced or RP Intensive. Most RPIs allow for players to affect their world (even if it means burning down a village, etc), however they are always RP-focused.

If you were willing to take the learning curve and delve into RPIs or RPEs, I would suggest one of two major RPIs, Shadows of Isildur (Tolkien-themed) or Armageddon (Dune/Darksun-themed), or my own upcoming and anticipated release of Atonement (sci-fi/mystery-themed).

ATONEMENT RPI
Armageddon Home Page
Shadows of Isildur - The Middle Earth Lord of the Rings RPI MUD.

Otherwise, I'd suggest checking out 4Dimensions. If you don't mind a small playerbase, you'll at least find a really interesting gameworld there (with a lot of quests and puzzles) compared to other hack+slash style games.

If you want a lighter RP-focused game that allows for some player affect on the gameworld, you could also opt for NewWorlds or Threshold, though you would acquire levels as per most MMOs.

Last edited by DonathinFrye : 11-19-2009 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 11-19-2009, 12:36 PM   #7
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Re: Looking for a MUD (tired of playing MMOs)

Thanks for all the suggestions

And I don't care about the grinding like I said, since every game has it...its just, if thats all there is to do.

And the only problem I have with the RP muds (I tried armageddon) ...I tried trading with someone in-game, spent about 30 minutes trying to figure out how to trade, reading the help files that whole time...guy finally gave up and left. I couldn't really ask what command to use either, since that would be non-rp. Thats just one example, I had many other confusing problems that I couldn't really ask for help in a RP manner.

I'll check out the games listed though, thanks
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Old 11-19-2009, 05:49 PM   #8
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Re: Looking for a MUD (tired of playing MMOs)

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Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
Thanks for all the suggestions

And I don't care about the grinding like I said, since every game has it...its just, if thats all there is to do.

And the only problem I have with the RP muds (I tried armageddon) ...I tried trading with someone in-game, spent about 30 minutes trying to figure out how to trade, reading the help files that whole time...guy finally gave up and left. I couldn't really ask what command to use either, since that would be non-rp. Thats just one example, I had many other confusing problems that I couldn't really ask for help in a RP manner.

I'll check out the games listed though, thanks
Of course you could've asked what command to use. That's what the "ooc" command is for. You'd just type:

ooc What command do I use to trade with you?
and it would come out:

The green-haired man oocs, "What command do I use to trade with you?"

And the guy would've responded, using the same command, something like:

The blue-skinned man oocs, "give axe blue" or "give bladed 3.figure", check out the "give" help file.

If you were trading with an NPC and not a character, the "trade" help file has cross references to everything you need, from "view" to "barter."

There are also helpers, and when you are approved to play your character, you get an e-mail directing you to the website list of all the helpers and how to get in touch with them (some have AIM, some only use e-mail for helping, some use both, some use a whole bunch of IM programs).

Back to the initial concern though, all RPIs have some method of getting OOC information across to new players. Shadows of Isildur has a whole area devoted to it, in-game, where helpers show up as anonymous gnomes. Armageddon has an OOC helper system. Most muds, RPI/diku or not have an OOC command. Some of them are specifically for new players, and are actually chat channels within the game, accessed by typing "newbie" or "/newbie." Some, like Armageddon, use, very simply, and intuitively, "OOC."
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:10 PM   #9
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Thumbs up Re: Looking for a MUD (tired of playing MMOs)

I'm happy to tell you that RetroMUD is exactly what you are looking for! I found RetroMUD while looking for an escape from the mindless churning (not to mention non-uniqueness) of Diku muds many years ago, and I haven't turned back for a second.

RetroMUD is an entirely original mud that consists of 6 different planets, each with their own magnitudes of depth in story-telling. Don't believe me? Welstar is one such planet that even has a backstory written about it's moon, Ambrosia...and the other planets can say the same.

Tired of everyone having the same skills at the same level with the same equipment and stats? And everyone churning through the same monsters over and over all by themselves?? So was I! You'll find none of that in RetroMUD! With over 60 (yes, 60!) playable races - each with their own stat potentials, advantages, disadvantages, slots, abilities, spell and skill propensity - you'll have no problem finding something you like! With RetroMUD's tiered guild approach, you're almost guaranteed to have a unique combination of skills, spells, and stats. You pick from 20 primary guilds, then can choose from over 40 secondary guilds, and then continue the process with near 100 tertiary guilds to fill up 100 mortal levels!

Sound interesting enough yet? Well, that's not all!

RetroMUD almost always has at least 10 active builders (wizards) at all times. There is continually changing content and new additions in the form of: areas, equipment, guilds, spells, skills, fun. It NEVER gets stale, and that has been true since it started in 1994! Imagine how much there is to find in the world of RetroMUD.

One last thing: RetroMUD is a cooperative party mud. This means that all of the guilds and abilities were designed to be inter-dependant. You won't find anyone out beating the big bosses and claiming all the exp and equipment by themselves. Rather, you'll need to construct a party of 8 adventurers who compliment each other well enough to take on the major challenges that are monsters in RetroMUD. Does that mean you can't function alone at times? Not at all! Merchants can repair, resize, and enhance equipment, fix and construct player-owned castles, and even run their own stores. Alchemists can elementalize armor and weapons, bards get additional powers for exploring!

There is always something to do on RetroMUD, and there are usually around 30-50 players on at any given time. Come join an intense party or just spend some time chatting with the others. You'll be guaranteed to see a few wizards and probably admin while you're there, and you can ask them any questions you want!

Check us out by telnetting over to retromud.org:3000, or browse the detailed information at our website: www.retromud.org (note: website is undergoing a redesign as we speak!)

I look forward to seeing you there sometime!

Ruckus Bringer
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Old 12-11-2009, 12:04 AM   #10
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Re: Looking for a MUD (tired of playing MMOs)

You may enjoy TempusMUD.

It has both fantasy and sci-fi worlds connected through a time-travel theme, and fits much of your criteria.

Check it out at http://tempusmud.net

Good luck wherever you end up!

-C
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Old 12-11-2009, 12:09 PM   #11
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Re: Looking for a MUD (tired of playing MMOs)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
So, I'm getting tired of playing MMOs...but I don't want to play a MUD in MMO form.
Hello there. I would like you to seriously consider New Worlds Ateraan. It is epic fantasy and has nearly all of your requests (not all), mainly we are Role Play Enforced. I know this is new to you, however, most who are new and have tried our style have fallen in love with it and often wonder why they ever played WoW or similar games that lack the depth and smooth story.

Here are responses to your requests:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
-Fantasy (this is important).
NWA is Epic Fantasy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
-GM led/made events (this is important too, like monster invasions or something like that)
We have a large staff that works with players and events and all guilds have leaders that run events. Our storyline includes antagonist INPC's (interactive non playing characters) who invade with AI and add to the storyline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
-maybe PvP but not really required, better if optional, but it doesn't matter too much
PvP allowed and optional to the extent that you would never be pk'd if you do not put yourself into a situation that would cause enough animosity to want to pk you. All pk requires serious roleplay to be allowed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
-Population doesn't matter too much, but if I go in-game and the game world is completely empty...then that isn't any fun either. I think 10+ people on at once, or at least close to that, is better. More is better as well of course, but I won't be too picky.
100+
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
-No forced roleplay
I know you are avoiding this, but I will say, NWA has a simple system for help files and interacting in order to find out how to do things, keeping the environment intact. Staff, guides, and question channels will assist for this. For roleplay learners, it is one of the better systems. If this truly is a no go for you then I will suggest another game at the end of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
-No cash shop like Iron Realms MUDs have.
No pay, no donations, no shops with gift coffee mugs. NO PAYMENT allowed whatsoever. NWA is one of the only MUDS that won't allow you to pay or donate money in any form no matter how much you want to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
-Non-static MUD
NWA is dynamic in much of the games story and even in some areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
-Unique skill/stat/class system
Unique guilds and powers and incredible shipping system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
-Good crafting system, I love crafting
Two guilds dedicated to this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
-Good story/lore progression, this kinda fits in with the non-static world.
This game is based on a book which you can read on the website. All of the game has story, lore, progression based on this for a rich history and environment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
-MUD is regularly updated.
We have forums to update what goes on in the game on the website and updates online. I will say that our website is not the "news release" style. I find that more for stockmarkets than roleplay games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
and last but not least, I don't want a MUD in MMO form.
The only thing you will find that is MMO'ish in NWA is the playerbase is over 100. But that is still tiny compared to MMO's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendayn View Post
-There are some MUDs with those graphical maps as you travel, and its like playing a 2d game, but not...I don't really like MUDs like that.
None of that in this game. It is pure story and text in its textual art. We figured if you want graphics, you'll be playing a fully loaded Graphics Game, not a dumbed down half and half.

Okay, so, if the RPE turns you off I will suggest the game that I would play if NWA wasn't an option and that is http://www.topmudsites.com/out/4dimensions.html. Very neat game with a fun concept.
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Old 12-21-2009, 05:38 PM   #12
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Smile Re: Looking for a MUD (tired of playing MMOs)

I definitely have to agree with Ruckus here. RetroMUD is the one you want for this

-Fantasy: Check. It's a fantasy MUD. Sporting 60+ races, 20+ guilds, spread out over six different worlds, each with its own theme, it's about as fantasy as you can get.

-GM led/made events: Events run pretty regularly, about daily. Monsters invade cities, player castles, Gods bestow blessings on their followers, armies of demons or angels stalk the land, battling those of opposing alignment, etc.
-PVP, but not too much: No pk, in the general sense is allowed, but there is plenty of PVP. There are wars held four times a week (two newbie wars and two open wars), and several capture the flag arenas with unique obstacles, tools, and terrain circumstances for complex strategy and team interaction (and with the large numbers of guilds and races mentioned above, the strategy can get fairly complex)
-Population: Yeah, way more then 10 online at a time, I can guarantee that

-No forced roleplay: Unlike RP-insistent MUDs like NewWorlds, where they snap at you for any ooc commentary or behavior, or RP-unfriendly MUDs, where you can expect to hear "y r u takin funy????" for using so much as full words and sentences, retroMUD is rp-encouraged, offering rp-related incentives for good roleplay for those who want to join in, while keeping lots of content and a friendly atmosphere to those who opt out.
-No cash shop: RetroMUD allows donations for low-consequence wishes and similar, just like you asked for, without any effects that are necessary to play, so much of the playerbase gets by just fine without ever donating a thing.


-Non-static MUD: A little while back, one of the major guilds was actually wiped out, then eventually returned to power in a new form, building up from the ashes from a gathering of surviving members who had practiced their art in the underground. Stuff like that?

-Unique skill/stat/class system: Yes. Just. . . yes. Very much so.

-Good crafting system: From crafting your own golems to guard your castle, to designing the castle itself, to just making specific powerful magic items from the pieces of legendary monsters, yes, there is crafting. It varies from guild to guild which types of crafting they do, or if they craft at all (Fallen don't really craft, aside from powering up their fellblades with the souls of the slain, for example)

-Good story/lore progression: see above

-MUD is regularly updated: Several new areas in the last month, not to mention a major guild change and the usual waves and waves of tweaks, commands, bugfixes, and other work.

-Not a Diku MUD: It's not a Diku MUD. You see room descriptions and use them to get around. If you type "map" on the overworld, you can see a map, but you don't watch it room by room as you travel around (and it isn't even available outside of that and cities: exploring is one of the ways you earn exp in RetroMUD). It's just pure, text-based goodness.
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