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Old 06-13-2002, 04:06 AM   #1
Chapel
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Angry

I was going to make this a poll, but then I realized there would be no explanations and discussion. I'm curious as to what people normally play, what their alignments are. Are you naturally a hero or a villain? A little of both perhaps?

To the shock of most of the people that have played with me, I'm actually a hero at heart I think. A "NeutralGood" alignment. I still get chills watching certain movies dealing with seriously honorable men and women.

The majority of my characters are more of a Neutral-Evil though, mostly because its easier to play, but usually because that is the most effective way to react to the world sometimes.

What about you?
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Old 06-13-2002, 08:30 AM   #2
Jazuela
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Well the game I play doesn't use that system of measurement. She's a darklander, and a good darklander. A good darklander would want to acquire power and knowledge and cut down the evil lightlanders whose bright sun threatens to burn up the entire world.

However lightlanders might consider her the personification of evil, if she let her guard down and showed them the stuff she was made of. But, being the quintessential darklander that she is, she's too smart to let them know that. Lightlanders consider the darkness the evil scourge of the earth, since without sun nothing would grow and so they see dark as death.

It all depends on perspective I guess, though in some games it's much more clearcut.
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Old 06-13-2002, 11:07 AM   #3
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Curiously enough, the majority of my characters are evil. And I am about the sweetest person you'll ever meet irl, hehe. But I simply can't stand the "lawful good" type of alignment, or your average do-gooder, slay the monster, defend the innocent type. I play mostly thieves, so alot of them are neutral evil. They can be selfish and underhanded, willing to go to any lengths to get what they desire, or they simply could care less about the laws of the realms, and do whatever pleases them at that time.

I think one thing that nearly all of my characters possess is a lack of respect for authority and "goodness". They are very apathetic, and even hostile towards the law. There are two characters who I can think of right off, who may not be that way. But one fights for what she perceives as "good", even though it is quite the opposite of what everyone else considers "good". And the other is much the same way, thinking that what she does is "good", when it fact it is rather horrifying, though her actions are mostly due to naivety, as she is still just a child.

And I think that this describes Dionae fairly well:

Anarchist characters tend to be the most adventurous and fun-loving people around. They have a devil-may-care attitude, and will go to any lengths to make life happier and more pleasurable for themselves, often forgetting about the consequences. They tend to be blind to the world around them, concentrating more on self-gratification and self-indulgence, and thus, ending up following only the laws that make sense to them. Although friendly, they frequently prioritize their own pleasure above another's well being.

But I'm not evil.. really...
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Old 06-13-2002, 11:51 AM   #4
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Cool

I'd have to say I play characters who are never really good or evil, but just plain selfish. Whether I am "good" or "evil" is up to another person and their interpretation of my character.

I can safely say all of my charcters have been nothing but selfish.

Well, except for one...he liked to eat elves and fry halfling children.

Basically, with a character that has a "me, me, me, me" attitude, it's funny to see how some people will react to you one day, and do a complete 180 the next.

One day, I do something that, of course, only benefits me. Well, it just so happens to benefit Player A too, and he cheers me on. Player B, on the other hand, get's really upset.

The next day? I do something Player B wants to have my children for, and Player A begins plotting my destruction.

I don't play my characters as selfish though for myself (well, ok, just a little for myself, heh) but mainly to make others react.

Believe it or not, where I find most typical "good guy" RP or "bad guy" RP doesn't intrigue as much as it used to, being selfish still gets a rise out of people.

By playing that way, it generates quite a bit of talk...

I'm such a greedy %@&#! ...
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Old 06-13-2002, 06:07 PM   #5
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The 'evil' thing rarely had a thrill for me.. I'm too good natured IRL (although if you find me PMSing, you'll be quick to disagree) to really enjoy playing a truly evil character.

Goodish is my thing.. but I also keep in mind that what's 'good' or acceptable to my character may be completely unacceptable for the rest of the environment.. like.. when my necromancer was hugging a mob that had just destroyed another city..

"Misunderstood" is about as far as I can go on that end.

On the other side, I've played some truly benevolent characters, and I found it boring after a while. Everyone is fallible, and I had to make my characters as such. They had to have their weaknesses.. or.. it was no more fun than being a bump on a log..

Melly
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Old 06-13-2002, 06:50 PM   #6
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I'm going to agree that my characters are rather hard to pin to one alignment and such. Though I'll try to answer the question... I hope.

Yevgeni, my primary character, could be termed as an incredibly evil character who has never heard of the word 'ethics' or any related words.

Or that was what he was origionally, even though he was probably a real nice person to those who knew him well enough. I would give him about a Lawful Evil, or even a chaotic good... I don't know.

About 4 months later... this will be the next 'snapshot' of my character and his alignment, without being overly specific on the matter.  Anyway, most of his former enemies and allies have seemed to changed sides. Those he used to work for (A planetary government) have largely in part (privately at least) turned against him... or it seems that way. Those he used to back have disappeared from the radar, he resigned his position, and becomes rather aimless. At this point I would say maybe around a more selfish view... to represent his seeming to be backed into a corner.

Now we fast forward another four months, to about the present day. At this point I would consider my character to have even changed to a more Neutral good stance. He has now gone to investments in businesses and some philanthropic type of spending.

My point here is that alignments change with circumstances, in a way I feel I have played most major alignments with only one character.
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Old 06-13-2002, 08:00 PM   #7
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I've changed from character to character. My personal style sort of controls what type of character I play. My very first character that I ever created was neutral, only because I didn't understand paragon/fiend, good/evil or any of the things involved with alignment/ethos (still don't much). All I remember was not wanting to take sides between all good and all evil and that sort of thing. My personal views have always been in the gray where certain circumstances require different solutions, whether orthodox or not. So, I went with it.

Only because of my personal glitches did I attempt an evil character after that and it didn't work out because my real life friendly nature just doesn't allow me to do what seems to be defined as evil things. I always felt that evil is defined in the mind and not in your acts alone. Evil didn't work out, so then I went to neutral/leaning evil and now I'm much happier playing my character. I can still be nice and polite outwardly and be motivated by my truly evil thoughts.
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Old 06-13-2002, 09:08 PM   #8
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I sort of... hop around. I can't be pinned to one particular alignment, but...

Mnemosyne just dosen't seem to care. She's single-minded, and she has a purpose, or so she seems to think. She tends to mow down everyone in her path without pausing to ask if they might be evil or not. She dosen't kill for fun, hatch plots, or anything like that, she's just... single-minded. She gets what she wants and just plows through things to get it.

Saffron is... odd. She WOULD be considered chaotic good, if she weren't such a depressed freak. She's melancholy, she mopes, and most of all, she has that same single-mindedness as Mnem... she just finds the paths and ways that "evil" people use to be more effective. Lawful evil, if anything. She goes through "good" methods and "evil" methods as it suits her.

Kyrie is reluctantly evil. In her heart she's the lawful good "knight in shining armor" type, but she keeps screwing up every chance she gets to prove it. Plus, the whole "sentient staff that lures all who wield it down the path of evil" thing kinda gets in her way. She's the type who'd take out a bandit settlement with a nuke, use rather horrific and, well, evil methods... to prove she's not really evil .

~Mnem
Chaotic... chaos.
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Old 06-14-2002, 12:12 AM   #9
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Angry

I am noticing a trend within the posts where some of you don't know how to, or don't want to pin the characters to a specific alignment. So, I'm going to describe the basic nine alignments, maybe it will help pin point a specific alignment that more likely than not can explain a character.

Lawful Good
Characters of this alignment believe in a strong, well organized government can benefit the people and keep a society strong. To ensure the better things in life, laws must be created and obeyed. They seek those things that can bring the greatest benefit to the most people while causing the least amount of harm. A wise and honorable king, a Knight in shining armor, all examples.

Lawful Neutral
The quintessential soldier. These people believe that order and organization are the most important things in life. They do not care if this organization is tyrannical or benevolent in nature, merely that it runs smoothly and there is a proper hierarchy of command. They do not question their orders and moral dilemma does not stop them from doing their duty. Most soldiers that follow commands without error, assassins that kill for an organization are good examples.

Lawful Evil
These characters believe in using the laws and rules of society to benefit themselves. They believe that organizational hierarchies are of the most importance to separate master and servant, and are always looking to climb that ladder. This characters follow laws only because they fear of the punishment that comes from disobeying, and because of this rarely give their word lest the law come down on them. They will only break their word if they can get away with it. A greedy merchant, or an iron-fisted tyrant are good examples.

Neutral Good
These characters believe a balance of forces is very necessary yet are not prompt to follow laws or figures of authority. At the same time they are not impulsive and quick to anger or action. They respect the fact that many people have different concepts of right and wrong, and strive to maintain a constant stream of "goodness" uncorrupted by society. If good can only come about by helping a king, then they will do so, if it can only come about by overthrowing said king, then that will be their quest. A baron who violates a direct order from their King to destroy something he sees as evil is a perfect example of a neutral good character.

True Neutral
(in my own opinion impossible to be roleplayed by humans)
These people believe in the ultimate balance of forces, both good and evil and lawful and chaotic. They refuse to see any behavior as good or evil, literally never judging an individual. His only goal is keeping all things balanced so that no one side has more pull than the other. A good example of a true neutral character would be a druid that joins an army to put down a village of gnolls only to switch sides at the last minute to keep the army from gaining too much of an upperhand.

Neutral Evil
In a word, these character care about one thing, and one thing alone...themselves. Their advancement in life is the only important thing they understand or respect. They have no problem working with others, or travelling alone so long as their is some benefit for themselves. While they do not have an "every man for themselves" attitude like chaotic-evil characters, they have no qualms about betraying an ally for personal gain. They typically base their alliances on money, making them very easy to bribe. An unscrupulous mercenary, the common thief, all very good examples.

Chaotic Good
These characters are very individualistic people marked by a very strong streak of kindness and benevolence. They believe in all the virtues of goodness and right, but do not respect laws or authority at all. They especially despise bullies and will make it a point to put down a person that "pushes" around those weaker than themselves. Robin Hood is a good example of a chaotic-good character.

Chaotic Neutral
These characters believe that there is no order to anything, including themselves. There are the most whimsical and fickled people about and normally does whatever it is that strikes their fancy at the moment. Good and evil are irrelevant when making a decision. These people are extremely difficult to deal with as they have been known to cheerfully gamble way everything they own on the single roll of a single die. The only reliable thing about them is that they are unreliable. Lunatics and madmen tend to be chaotic neutral.

Chaotic Evil
These characters are the bane of all things good and organized. They are motivated by the desire of personal gain and pleasure. They see absolutely nothing wrong with taking what they want by any means necessary. Laws and government are the tools of weaklings unable to defend themselves. The strong have the right to take whatever they want and the weak are there to be exploited. When these characters get together with others, only a strong leader can keep them together as the first sign of weakness will end in that leader's death. Bloodthirsty pirates and most base monsters are chaotic evil.

*most of these definitions based on TSR's definitions of alignment.

...
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Old 06-14-2002, 08:51 AM   #10
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I understand the "alignment" system as defined by TSR, but it just doesn't apply to my characters. The game I play doesn't use such alignments, and in fact the term itself is applied to the game's socio-religious-political affiliation rather than personality type.

My character would be considered *by other darklanders* (if they knew her better, which they don't) to be lawful good. She is manipulative and conniving, she presents a false facade of being sweet, cheerful and pleasant while at the same time plotting to gain power and put the scum-sucking evil lightlanders under the rule of the dark. This includes, but is not limited to, indentured servantry, slavery, conversion to dark religion, and death. In the darklands, this IS considered lawful good. In the lightlands, her behavior (again, if they knew her better) would be considered unlawful evil.

A lightlander might see the EXACT same things, with the exception of slavery, as being good - as long as it's the lightlander doing it against the darklander. And the darklander target would see this as being evil.

So as you can see, these TSR categories just plain don't apply. The TSR system would see ALL characters of dark and light as being evil, with different shades of lawfulness. Twilighters would also be considered evil, because they dare to profit off the other two alignments' losses and bring both under the "neutrality" rule of their own alignment.
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Old 06-14-2002, 02:17 PM   #11
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Angry

Well you have to remember one universal truth. When speaking of good and evil it is not always subjective to the individual, in fact, traditional interpretation forces us to realize the individual is nothing, a star in an endless sky one that may already be burnt out while we view it....(long story)

So in that context, Good is defined as that which will help the masses over the individual, refrain from violence save for the notion of self defense and sharing and the abundant use of the "virtues". In this same context Evil is base, using force over reason, might defining right. They are then manipulative, conniving, vicious, etc. etc.

To the darklander, or whomever, the notions of Evil are "good", but that isn't the logic of it. That is a method of self justification. Traditionally speaking, your darklanders are evil, they go against all the virtues of good, and therefore are disliked by the "lightlanders" I think that was their name.

From your definition I would say your character is Lawful Evil. There are obviously some rules in effect that keeps her from totally revealing herself, meaning she respects some measure of punishment...hence the lawful and evil because she chooses to conceal, deceive, manipulate and hide.

As much as I think TSR is flawed, their 9 basic alignments can pretty much define any character.

...
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Old 06-14-2002, 02:48 PM   #12
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If that is the case, then it should be acknowledged that every character that exists in the game I play is evil. The whole socio-political-religious theme of the game is this:

Light perspective:
Light worships twin gods, who bring the sun and wind to the world. Dark is a stain on the sun, masking its glory and killing the plantlife and is therefore evil, as are all its inhabitants, who *must* be either destroyed, converted by force if necessary, or otherwise neutered.

Dark perspective:
Dark worships one goddess, who brings delicious cooling shade to filter the sun which threatens to burn the world to cinders. Light is blinding and destructive, a threat to the peaceful and structured world of the dark, and is therefore evil including all its inhabitants, who *must* be either destroyed, converted by force if deemed worthy, or otherwise neutered.

Twilight perspective:
Twilight worships another goddess, whose hand rules the natural world - forests, oceans, creatures (including sentient inhabitants), and the Balance between light and dark. Neither light nor dark are intrinsically evil on their own, but one's domination over the other is evil, and therefore both sides must constantly be kept in check - much to the dismay and disgust of both sides.

Then there's the Islanders, who revere their ancestors, and believe that ANY worship of ANY gods is evil because it creates struggle and war and competition for dominance.

The gods themselves are rumored to be the manifistations of the "ultimate powers" of Light and Dark, with twilight created after the fact when it looked like each side was going to destroy the entire world in their neverending stuggle for dominance.

In the game I play, ALL sides are evil to someone, and ALL sides are good to someone. It depends strictly on what side you're on. This isn't subject to "real world morals and ethics." The world is self-sustaining and its concepts created specifically and uniquely for the game. What "you" as a player or observer consider evil or good is completely irrelevent. What "modern real-world" society thinks is evil or good is also completely irrelevent, in the context of this particular game.

R
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Old 06-14-2002, 03:52 PM   #13
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Sort of like.. in war, there are no good guys or bad guys...  This could provoke a whole discussion on the nature of good and evil.  Is there really such a thing as either?  But.. I won't get into that... :)  Basically, you're right.  It all depends on your perspective.  From my character's perspective, she is not evil.  All of the other "corrupted" houses are evil.  Yet they see her and anyone associating with her house to be absolutely despicable.

But, I think that in your game, the general belief is meant to be that "light people" are "good" and "dark people" are "evil".  And the "twilight people" are like the true neutrals, believing in balance before all else.  I could be wrong, but it seems that the likening of "dark" and "light", etc. are there for a purpose.  And most people associate light with goodness and dark with evil.

But, I also agree with you that alignments can be particularly restricting.  That's one reason why I try to avoid muds with an alignment system.  And some of my characters don't exactly fit into the categories of good-neutral-evil, lawful-neutral-chaotic either.  But I think that most people can find an alignment which at least mostly relates to their character and his/her standing.
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Old 06-14-2002, 10:29 PM   #14
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Angry

I don't know, I don't buy it Jaz. I think it sounds more like no one in the world you play in wants to take responsibility for their actions. Remember the words "good" and "evil" are only words, its the meaning behind them that holds water. They are descriptions only, which is why evil considers themselves "good".

Good, by ANY name, is simply the want, need and respect for the well being of ALL people, not just a particular group. It is the following of the natural virtues, kindness, honesty, etc. etc. Evil or "Bad" is much to the contrast of that, manipulation, betrayal, etc. etc.

Now don't get me wrong, my opinion isn't based on what I believe good or evil is, because my person perception is far different from the point I'm making, but it seems as though an easier way to differentiate good and evil is that "good" does not need to make excuses, manipulate, hide themselves, or bully others.

Evil is to the opposite of this again, they make excuses "explanations" for the actions they take, they manipulate those they need, they disguise their actions and identities while they work and use their assets to keep down those they are against.

It just sounds like your world will not acknowledge the concept of good and evil instead portraying that all things have a "dark" and "light" to themselves, which is an awesome dynamic and more of a social breakdown than fundamental, but in the end, the individual is either doing a good thing or a bad thing.

...
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Old 06-14-2002, 11:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
               
                           Good, by ANY name, is simply the want, need and respect for the well being of ALL
                            people, not just a particular group.  It is the following of the natural virtues,
                            kindness, honesty, etc. etc.  Evil or "Bad" is much to the contrast of that,
                            manipulation, betrayal, etc. etc.
That's a popular, and maybe even accurate, real-life explanation of the vague and esoteric term "good." It in no way relates to the world of the game I play. Once again, using real-world values and descriptions to explain fantasy world situations is not appropriate, UNLESS the fantasy world supports such things.

In Inferno (obviously the game I play if you look at my sig, and "the game I play" is getting really tiresome to write)...good is doing whatever it takes to keep yourself and your comrades alive. In the darklands, this means culling the weak from the group, and supporting the strong. Obviously no one wants to be culled, so they'll do what they have to in ordered to be perceived as strong. If they succeed, it means they ARE strong (mentally, physically, emotionally, politicially, socially, or any combination thereof), and thus deserving of survival in the darklands. This is GOOD, because it is one of the basic tenets of their goddess and their religious structure. The goddess really exists, she isn't just something one believes in. Her power is manifest and proven in all manner of things, and her devotees would die before betraying her.

Lightlands supports the weak and works for the greater good, and for "Unity" since their gods are dual, who work together in the creation and maintenence of the lightlands. This means that the underdog is brought into the herd, nurtured, and hopefully becomes strong. The whole safety in numbers kinda thing. This is GOOD, because it is one of the basic tenets of THEIR gods and religious structure.

It really is a very interactive dynamic system. It's similar, somewhat, to the underlying concepts of the Eternal Champion books, if you're familiar with them. It is never a matter of good vs. evil. It's chaos vs. order, which must always be balanced lest one get the upper hand and destroy the world. Chaos isn't evil. It's chaotic, and necessary. From chaos springs growth, and growth is essential to life. Order isn't good, it's order, and necessary. From order brings structure and discipline, which prevents growth from killing everything and itself.

Same with light and dark. Both are essential to existence. Neither side will accept this of the other, and each will vie for supremacy. It's the twilight that keeps the precarious balance. Again, not evil nor good. Simply necessary. In order for twilight to have a reason to exist, there MUST be a constant struggle between light and dark. Otherwise twilight become redundant, pointless, and fades out. So even the struggle itself is necessary for existence.

R
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Old 06-14-2002, 11:18 PM   #16
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How rude. Post preview showed that quote lining up nice and neat. Oh well.
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