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Old 02-25-2012, 08:20 PM   #1
Greg
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Player looking for unique PvE

I'm interested in PvE but I don't want the same old experience I've had so many times before. When I look for PvE MUDs, I see an endless stream of medievalish fantasy worlds of Elves and Dwarfs, like infinite iterations of Dungeons and Dragons or World of Warcraft.

I have a found a few exceptions (and that's great) but I've run out.

Suggestions of MUDs to check out?

Again, it is PvE I'm looking for, but if you are about to suggest another medievalish fantasy world, particularly if there are Elves and Dwarves in it, there needs to be something at the core of the experience that makes playing it for PvE very different from the other MUDs out there.
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:58 PM   #2
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

ConQUEST.

http://www.topmudsites.com/forums/mudinfo-conquest.html
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Old 02-25-2012, 10:11 PM   #3
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

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In what way?

It is hard to tell much about this game. The wiki doesn't describe the skills and the game won't let me list the skills without going through MUD school first.

Edit: I went though the MUD school so that I could get a complete list, but even then, I can only see the skills that are immediately available for training. So far, the MUD doesn't look that much different from the standard. Medievalish setting, swords, dungeons and magic. There are no races, which is at least a break from Elves and Dwarves - though for all I know, the wilds will be full of them.

I would be interested in hearing about what makes this place so different.

Last edited by Greg : 02-25-2012 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:55 AM   #4
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

If you're over 18 and not easily offended by "P vs a gratuitously violent, crude, obscene, disgusting, and extremely elaborate E," then HellMOO certainly isn't medievalish fantasy. It's also very funny much of the time if you're not overly serious and find being attacked by something like a zombified Condoleeza Rice amusing.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:46 AM   #5
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

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Originally Posted by jackal59mo2 View Post
If you're over 18 and not easily offended by "P vs a gratuitously violent, crude, obscene, disgusting, and extremely elaborate E," then HellMOO certainly isn't medievalish fantasy. It's also very funny much of the time if you're not overly serious and find being attacked by something like a zombified Condoleeza Rice amusing.
Thanks for the suggestion.

However, the game's webpage seems to suggest that a PC can rape another PC without that player's consent. If that's so, then I really don't think that this is the MUD I'm looking for. It is different, I'll give it that...

Picky, ain't I?

Last edited by Greg : 02-26-2012 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:23 AM   #6
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

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Originally Posted by Greg View Post
Picky, ain't I?
I don't think your picky. But it would help us if you gave us some idea of what you want. Simply PVE isn't enough. Perhaps list 2 to 10 things you want to see besides "not D&D" related. For example, you could say I want these things:

1. A modern world or Post Apocalyptic. Space theme is also okay.
2. Magic, but magic that is unique not the standard.
3. No player killing or player vs. player but not without rules.
4. Solo is what I'm really looking for where you can do things without having to be grouped to win bigger fights.
5. Guilds but not standardized.
6. An environment that is well thought out and doesn't look like 50 player/coders built random areas.

This obviously may not be what you want, but hopefully it gives you an idea.

Good luck Greg!

P.S. Incidentally, I feel pretty stupid being around these games for years and running one of the biggest and I'm not sure what PVE stands for.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:25 AM   #7
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

Thanks for your thoughtful reply Newworlds!

The thing is, there isn't anything in particular that I'm looking for (apart from PvE) - I just want something substantially different from the D&D-ish default.

HellMoo was actually a good suggestion, even though it turns out to be not for me. It would provide a different sort of PvE experience.

So modern and space settings are certainly promising. So are post-apocalyptic settings (although "post-apocalyptic" can be code for "D&D with a different backstory that seems to make no actual difference")

Non-standard magic that players can use is rarely different enough to make much of a difference to me. I like magic and a game that claims to have a radical new magic system is liable to get me to visit the webpage to read up about it, but it has never made a significant difference to my choice of MUDs. I would much rather, say, use an old magic system in a modern setting than a radical new magic system in a medievalish fantasy world with Elves and Dwarves.

I'm not interested in player killing. I can tolerate it going on as long as it doesn't happen so much that it gets in the way of my PvE.

The ability to work solo is a plus, although I don't mind if I have to avoid the "big fights" as long as I don't have to have those fights.

I don't care much about guilds either way, as long as I'm not forced to roleplay in order to have fun with PvE.

An environment that is well thought out is a huge advantage over stock or random areas. Even so, a well-thought out medievalish fantasy world with Elves and Dwarves, while it may have my admiration, won't get me to play.

Thanks again for your helpful thoughts.

Greg
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:18 PM   #8
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

As I've said in the past, "I don't think you can really define the creativity of a mud by its race selection". Renaming "elf" to "vulcan" takes very little effort, but it doesn't make the game any more original.

The elves in Dark Sun are physically powerful desert-running nomads. The elves in Earth Dawn have thorns growing through their flesh, the constant pain protecting them from possession. The elves in Sundered Skies are a plant-based race of slavers and religious fanatics. The elves in the Southern Vampire Mysteries are tough fae with very sharp teeth and poisonous blood.

On the other hand, you've got settings like Talislanta, which actually used to use the slogan "No Elves!" in its adverts. Yet it has a magically-gifted race called the Cymrilian who look just like elves.

Race originally lies in the concept and mechanics, not the name you give it (although I must admit it'd be nice to see more muds without humans, that race is seriously overdone).

But that aside, it sounds like you're looking for an original theme rather than an original game.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:31 PM   #9
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

I was about to recommend our game for its many unique PvE features, its many combat twists, and its rich custom zones. But the OP's continued insistence on "no elves, no dwarfs" changed my mind.

It seems that the OP is asking for a game that happens to have good PvE, but, more importantly, one that at some point decided to rename all its elves and dwarfs to shmelves and shmarfs. We only meet the first requirement, and we are very fond of our many elven and dwarven custom zones...

P. S. I can totally understand how one can develop an aversion to elves and dwarfs after many years of playing fantasy MUDs. Maybe taking a short break is also a viable option.
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:39 PM   #10
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

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Originally Posted by Greg View Post
Thanks for the suggestion.

However, the game's webpage seems to suggest that a PC can rape another PC without that player's consent. If that's so, then I really don't think that this is the MUD I'm looking for. It is different, I'll give it that...

Picky, ain't I?
That's actually not correct, though a little bit of history is probably in order. HellMOO originally had quite a bit of PvP content, which involved just about everything imaginable. While this might have been O.K. if everybody was mature and didn't take things too seriously, this is, after all, the Internet. So, the game split, and the current HellMOO is almost wholly PvE with very limited PvP.

That said, yes, NPCs can rape your PC with no consent whatsoever. They can probably teabag your PC's corpse as well. If that disturbs you, then, no, you shouldn't play there.
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:55 PM   #11
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

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P.S. Incidentally, I feel pretty stupid being around these games for years and running one of the biggest and I'm not sure what PVE stands for.
Player vs. Environment. Basically, you fight NPCs, traps, and other things in the game world, not other player's characters. That's something that I prefer as well. More correctly, I like either hippie games with lots of free-form RP, no crafting, and almost no combat code (though I do like that code to be as hidden as possible when it does kick in - Elendor's is still the model for me of how that should work) or heavily coded games with almost no PvP. After all, in many cases NPCs are smarter and less obnoxious than the kind of player that goes around looking for a fight on a PvP or "PK"-based game.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:13 PM   #12
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

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Renaming "elf" to "vulcan" takes very little effort, but it doesn't make the game any more original.
That's absolutely true. The same old Elf with a new name is no good.

Quote:
The elves in Dark Sun are physically powerful desert-running nomads. The elves in Earth Dawn have thorns growing through their flesh, the constant pain protecting them from possession. The elves in Sundered Skies are a plant-based race of slavers and religious fanatics. The elves in the Southern Vampire Mysteries are tough fae with very sharp teeth and poisonous blood.
Yep, if the Elves are different enough from the D&D versions, I wouldn't necessarily mind them. If, for instance, they were a lot closer to the Elves and Dwarves of mythology, there might be a perfectly good reason for very different creatures to be called "Elves" and "Dwarves".

Note, of course, that in order to make a significant difference to PvE, there has to be a significant mechanical difference to the D&D versions. Differences just related to RP won't make a significant difference to how they play. On the other hand, if your Elves can't touch iron or enter holy places but can become invisible at will and pass unmolested among the undead, they are presumably going to feel really different in PvE.

Quote:
On the other hand, you've got settings like Talislanta, which actually used to use the slogan "No Elves!" in its adverts. Yet it has a magically-gifted race called the Cymrilian who look just like elves.
Yes, it is absolutely true that just renaming the old races achieves nothing.

Last edited by Greg : 02-26-2012 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:16 PM   #13
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

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It seems that the OP is asking for a game that happens to have good PvE, but, more importantly, one that at some point decided to rename all its elves and dwarfs to shmelves and shmarfs.
No. That would be just the same old thing with a new name. If I say that I don't want to eat beef, renaming it "schmeef" when serving it up to me is not a helpful response.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:18 PM   #14
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

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Originally Posted by jackal59mo2 View Post
That's actually not correct, though a little bit of history is probably in order. HellMOO originally had quite a bit of PvP content, which involved just about everything imaginable. While this might have been O.K. if everybody was mature and didn't take things too seriously, this is, after all, the Internet. So, the game split, and the current HellMOO is almost wholly PvE with very limited PvP.

That said, yes, NPCs can rape your PC with no consent whatsoever. They can probably teabag your PC's corpse as well. If that disturbs you, then, no, you shouldn't play there.
Thank you for your original suggestion and for this clarification.

Your MUD sounds like it offers a genuinely different PvE experience.

I don't think it is for me, though.
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:34 AM   #15
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

If you are interested in exploring and questing, 4 Dimensions might be something for you to check out.

Sure, we have some Elves and Dwarves in our Medieval Dimension, but that's just one of the 4.
And we have so much more...
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:53 AM   #16
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

I can't figure out which of the two priorities are more important to you. It seems like you've had some bad experiences with the "yet another generic fantasy mud" process as you try to find a game you can really enjoy. But at the same time, you've titled this thread "looking for unique PvE" and are mixing your dislike for non-unique swords and sworcery elf/dwarf muds that follow D&D rather than pure mythology with a search for unique gameplay. Are you looking for a unique genere, or a unique combat engine?

Some of the best muds I've played, both due to gameplay aspects and roleplaying aspects, have been fairly nondescript, generic, Elf/Dwarf fantasy muds. Some of the most simplistic, boring, lame PvE muds I've played have had really unique worlds, settings, and backstories that don't have the slightest hint of Elves, Dwarves, and swords and sworcery magic in them. For example, I messed around on CoreMUD (coremud.org) for awhile. It's a mud past it's prime that's lucky to have 5 people logged in today, and combat is about as simple as it gets, but the futuristic mining colony genere kept me interested for awhile. I played this RPI-type MUSH/MUD hybrid (infernorpg.net) that's also lucky to see 5 logins, that mostly follows the White Wolf racial archtypes (vampires, mages, werewolves, etc.) and takes place in modern day New York, but lets players pretty much custom-design their characters and pits them in arena-type combat with range and melee options nad grouping/strategy options, rather than traditional area exploration and looting. There's this new-ish Final Fantasy based mud (eotmud.org) that's getting a lot of good buzz even though it's technically not officially open until they've released their next batch of content (it has more players online than a lot of muds that are). I guess it's got dwarves in it, but no elves. Either way, each race there makes for very different gameplay (races get some unique core racial skills rather than just some minor stat modifiers).

I guess where I'm going with this is kind of what Kavir said above. Don't discount a mud because it seems like a fairly generic Elf/Dwarf fantasy mud. Look a little deeper before coming to a final opinion. With that said, I'm heavily in favor of one of your suggestions that every single mud owner out there should take to heart: make it 100% clear why your mud is unique and why I want to play it on your website. Let us know what you're offering. I don't want to read a description on TMS or the Mud Connector about how your mud is 10 years old, or back after a long break under new ownership, or what a great community you have (unless your selling point is being a good chatroom), and especially not some paragraph inviting me to come try the adventure in your vaguely described dark fantasy world. I want to read 10-20 sentences that tell me the type of gaming experience I should expect.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:01 AM   #17
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly View Post
If you are interested in exploring and questing, 4 Dimensions might be something for you to check out.

Sure, we have some Elves and Dwarves in our Medieval Dimension, but that's just one of the 4.
And we have so much more...
Hi Molly,

Your prehistoric, wild west and future dimensions look really interesting and different. Thank you very much for the recommendation.
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:26 AM   #18
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

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Originally Posted by SnowTroll View Post
Are you looking for a unique genere, or a unique combat engine?
A unique genre is much more important to me than a unique combat engine.

Quote:
There's this new-ish Final Fantasy based mud (eotmud.org) that's getting a lot of good buzz even though it's technically not officially open until they've released their next batch of content (it has more players online than a lot of muds that are). I guess it's got dwarves in it, but no elves. Either way, each race there makes for very different gameplay (races get some unique core racial skills rather than just some minor stat modifiers).
Thanks. I'll have a look at those racial skills to see if anything looks different enough to overcome how jaded I am with medievalish fantasy.

Quote:
With that said, I'm heavily in favor of one of your suggestions that every single mud owner out there should take to heart: make it 100% clear why your mud is unique and why I want to play it on your website. Let us know what you're offering. I don't want to read a description on TMS or the Mud Connector about how your mud is 10 years old, or back after a long break under new ownership, or what a great community you have (unless your selling point is being a good chatroom), and especially not some paragraph inviting me to come try the adventure in your vaguely described dark fantasy world. I want to read 10-20 sentences that tell me the type of gaming experience I should expect.
Excellently put!
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Old 02-27-2012, 10:46 AM   #19
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

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Thanks. I'll have a look at those racial skills to see if anything looks different enough to overcome how jaded I am with medievalish fantasy.
It's eotmud.com, not org. Sorry for the bad info. But the website needs work anyway. Due to the mud currently being a work in progress, a lot of the website info is just copy and paste from the mud's helpfiles.
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:25 AM   #20
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Re: Player looking for unique PvE

Howdy! I, like you, got -incredibly- burnt out by elves, ogres, and basic LOTR/D&D type worlds. So, you might give my MUD a try, NarutoMUD. It is based on an anime, which turns off some, but you'll find our game has a lot of deep mechanics which our players love. First off, our website is NarutoMUD :: Home and if you go to resources you'll see a breakdown of our skills, and villages (which I'll explain).

We don't allow PK in the game, not to say we don't have PvP, but it is done through the arena. Our game play is focused on co-op and we have a -ton- of options to do really cool stuff with friends. However, I'll start with our basic world stuff first.

Naruto is a retelling of classical Japanese folklore (no elves or even a 'Japanese' style elf in the game, I promise) with a twist. The Naruto world has some modern things, like movie theaters, cameras and modern-esque builders, but it doesn't have guns or cell phones. The story is set where each country has their own hidden ninja village which is its military might. Every village starts training their children at a young age to become the next crop of soldiers. That is where your story begins.

You enter the world of NarutoMUD as a bright-eyed 8 year old ready to take on the world. As you play the game, you'll grow older and grow up. You'll be able to pick your starting village, which will help dictate your skills, but as you grow in the game you can learn skills from other villages.

Our skill system is where I'm most proud of the game. As you level up, you gain points to raise your ability in 4 fields:

Taijutsu - Vicious hand-to-hand combat.
Ninjutsu - Our magical system, performed with hand seals to do amazing attacks.
Genjutsu - Illusionary arts. Confuse your opponents and make them destroy themselves.
Ningu - Ninja tools, use the tools the trade efficiently and in a deadly manner.

Every branch behaves differently and you can make insanely cool builds with all the skills. Some players prefer to specialize in one area while other others try to go across multiple. Every skill is setup to have hidden ways to power it up, some obvious and some non-obvious.

What else is cool about the skills? Well, I mentioned the co-op aspect. In Taijutsu, you can perform attacking combos with people in your group. With Ninjutsu you can combine your magical attacks with other players in your group to make even more powerful attacks. Want to be a loner? No problem. Some villages have various 'Bunshin' (Doppelganger) skills that let the user create clones that are weaker replicas of themselves.

I could go on, but the last thing I want to mention is that our story is original. While we use the anime has a sort of guide to shape our lore, we don't adhere to it like a dogma. If you come to the game with no knowledge or a giant library of knowledge, you won't have any advantages and you will be able to enjoy the story put in front of you.

So, if any of this even sounds remotely interesting, I'd just pop on and talk to players, or just try the game out. We're a friendly bunch and love new faces to adventure with.

Last edited by Gatz : 02-27-2012 at 02:12 PM.
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