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Old 04-16-2015, 07:15 PM   #1
the_logos
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Huge changes to Achaea's skills

There have been some massive changes in Achaea over the past few months, with the splitting of trade skills from each class's repertoire of skills and the introduction of a slew of new skills to expand those classes! (Skills in Achaea are themed collections of individual abilities/spells, usually 15-40 or so of them). We have 17 classes, and and 9 of them got new skills.

Alchemists gain the skill of Formulation, allowing them to concoct phials of deadly compounds which can be thrown in the room to debilitate their enemies or enhance their physical forms. Each compound can be modified for potency (more powerful effects), volatility (faster effects), and stability (longer-lasting effects).

Druids are gifted with two exclusive metamorphosis morphs and the skill of Reclamation, allowing them to extend nature's reach across the world in a network of reclaimed rooms. Even city rooms of iron and stone are unable to resist nature's grasp!

Knight classes (Infernal, Paladin, Runewarden) receive the skill of Weaponmastery, which allows them to specialise in a particular style of fighting. These martial masters can select:
Dual Cutting - using two swords to decimate their foes.
Dual Blunt - utilising flails and morningstars to pulp the body of their enemies.
Two-handed - wielding massive two-handed weapons to their greatest effect.
Sword and Shield - integrating a shield into offence and defence.

Magi combine their skills of Crystalism and Elementalism to construct powerful golems in the skill of Artificing. These golems not only act as an additional ally in battle, they can capitalise on the Magi's vibrations, unleashing new devastating attacks!

Sentinels were also granted two exclusive metamorphosis morphs alongside their new skill: Skirmishing! In this skill, the Sentinel gains access to more tools from the bounty of nature, as well as further depth to weapon-based attacks with spears and tridents. Woodlore also received some additions with new abilities for summoned woodland animals.

Shamans gained a far deeper connection to the spirit world with the skill of Spiritlore, allowing them to tether and bind spirits to them, unlocking powerful new abilities! Additionally, they now have the power to split their spirit from their body and spiritwalk across the lands.

Sylvans, our final overhaul, were the recipients of not one, but two new skills! Firstly they gained Weatherweaving, allowing them to use their elemental mastery to manipulate the weather. This extends from summoning fog into the room and slicing their foes with whipping wind, all the way up to summoning a magical storm to decimate their enemies with balled lightning. Secondly, they gain the skill of Propagation, allowing the augmentation of their Viridian form with a variety of plants, each granting specific effects depending on where it was grafted.
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Old 04-16-2015, 07:37 PM   #2
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

As an example of the new skills, see below. Each class has three skills associated with it, and players also have a variety of other full general skills available (riding, seafaring, Dragoncraft if you get to level 99, etc) as well as 13 different tradeskills. Come check us out! http://www.achaea.com


ARTIFICING
Code:
Golemcraft           Create a crystalline construct.
Club                 Have your golem strike the lesser beings.
Smash                Direct your golem to shatter the limbs of your enemies.
Return               Order your construct back to your side.
Hypothermia          The freezing touch of Sllshya.
Assess               Determine the composition of your construct.
Scald                The true meaning of pain.
Scorch               Sear flesh from bone.
Pummel               Have your golem smash them to pieces.
Schematics           Efficiently handle your constructs.
Dehydrate            Make them vulnerable to the consuming flame.
Timeflux             Disrupt the flow of time about an enemy.
Impurity             Introduce impurities into the blood of your opposition.
Barrier              Raise a protective shield.
Disfigure            Disfigure their face beyond all recognition.
Inferno              Bring forth a raging inferno.
Firestorm            The very world shall burn at your command.
Conflagrate          Summon forth a terrible conflagration.
Restore              Restore some of your construct's energy.
Hypnotise            Draw them into slumber.
Destroy              The wrath of Kkractle is terrible indeed.
Deconstruct          Break your construct down into its base components.
Destabilise          The power to destabilise crystalline vibrations is formidable.


SKIRMISHING
Code:
Returning            The ability to throw an axe such that it will return.
Trip                 Knock an unruly foe to the ground.
Grab                 Use an axe to pull someone in from a nearby room.
Shove                Sending a hapless victim crashing to the forest floor.
Rive                 Shatter an opponent's shield.
Thrust               The most basic of skirmishing attacks.
Spinning             Set up a defensive shield with a spear or trident.
Seize                Grabbing unwary victims from the forest floor.
Scout                A good woodsman checks his path.
Brace                Impale attackers on a spear or trident.
Rivestrike           There is no defence against your onslaught.
Ensnare              Mesmerise them with your flawless skill.
Lacerate             Let them bleed for their foolishness.
Scythe               Slice through the defences that would protect your foes.
Rattle               Rattle their brains with a blow to the head.
Truss                Truss them up for slaughter.
Skullbash            Split their skull with a mighty blow.
Gouge                Lay them open with a precision strike.
Impale               Drive your blade straight through your target.
Drag                 Drag away your prey.
Barbs                Chivalry is a construct of the city dwellers.
Wrench               Gut them like a fish.
Doublestrike         Strike, then strike again.
Extirpate            Return them to the embrace of nature.
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Old 04-17-2015, 12:44 AM   #3
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

You still have to pretty much program everything you want to do into your client so you can compete with other people who have aliases and triggers for everything, right?
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Old 04-17-2015, 07:02 PM   #4
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

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Originally Posted by dark acacia View Post
You still have to pretty much program everything you want to do into your client so you can compete with other people who have aliases and triggers for everything, right?
Well, depends. There are an enormous number of packages people have created to make playing the game easier, and you can even set up server-side logic for your character to deal with curing if you want.

Of course, I wouldn't play any MUD or MMORPG without an extensive set of aliases/macros. I'm not a trigger guy when it comes to combat myself, but it works for others, and there are lots of reasonable reasons to set up custom triggers for how you want to play.
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Old 04-17-2015, 08:29 PM   #5
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

Yes, there are MUDs where I'd want a set of aliases and macros, and triggers can help highlight certain events too. But those are games where doing so is important for the DPS caster to maximize his DPS, the healer to maximize HPS and know who and when to heal, the tank to know when to flee from battle, and the buffer/debuffer to know when buffs/debuffs have worn off.

That's different from setting up a system to play the game for you because there's so many curative items for healing the equally considerable number of negative status effects, and victory is contingent upon being able to dispel those effects fast enough.
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Old 04-18-2015, 10:32 AM   #6
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by dark acacia View Post

That's different from setting up a system to play the game for you because there's so many curative items for healing the equally considerable number of negative status effects, and victory is contingent upon being able to dispel those effects fast enough.
Sounds like you haven't played Achaea for awhile. You can simply set up server-side logic to tell the game how you want your character to heal and how to prioritize those cures. Takes the 'reaction' out of curing and turns it into tactical thinking.
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Old 04-18-2015, 10:58 PM   #7
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

It's been a few years.

But why have all of that mess anyway? It just turns combat into a war of attrition.
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Old 04-19-2015, 09:33 PM   #8
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

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Originally Posted by dark acacia View Post
It's been a few years.

But why have all of that mess anyway? It just turns combat into a war of attrition.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by a war of attrition in this case, but if you mean health, then no, attrition has very little to do with our PvP combat. Our combat tactics are very complex at the top end, and honestly, they're beyond me - I don't understand combat in Achaea well enough to compete with the big boys any more. (The producer and one of the full-time devs are where that expertise resides on the Achaea team.)

As a random example, which probably isn't all that illustrative as you won't be able to really follow it (I don't fully understand the subtleties involved), here's a post from one of our top combatants about proposed changes to an ability called 'evade'.

It's from a system called 'classleads' in which players propose changes to combat, and other players vote (with some hand-selected players getting more votes, effectively) on those changes and discuss them. We then decide which changes to make based on player feedback combined with our own sensibilities.

"Re: Evade

I think a better solution is to make Apostate more mobile. That's an all around Apostate problem. They're built around camping one room with outrageous nightmare prep time, gravehands, bloodworm, etc. Make Apostate more mobile and you help the class all around.

I don't think it's fair whatsoever to make evade affected by dizziness. None of the single room movement abilities like leap, MJ, backflip, etc are affected by dizziness. Those abilities are the main counter to dizziness(among other effects). Making evade uniquely terrible versus dizziness would cripple Serpent really badly. Those abilities, evade included, have the drawback of having a balance time in order to move a single room.

As long as hypnosis is in place, the class does hinge its offense on needing to be able to maneuver, because it's very possible that you're giving the other person uncontested stretches of 8 seconds(minimum) or more of momentum at times. This is something that has to be done regularly throughout a fight, and can take over 20 seconds with bad luck. You also have to consider that it's generally quite easy to slow down a Serpent's offense with running. Pinshot is ok, but it costs momentum to put up every 17 seconds, and is still fairly easy to move away from(or fly from). Would really put Serpent at a disadvantage if for example, an Apostate can move a couple rooms and reset a Serpent's momentum trivially, but the Serpent gets boned by dizziness/ghands when the Apostate has the upperhand. Serpent is pretty good at escaping momentum, but that feature is clearly weighted in by the fact that they don't have nearly as many other frills as tons of other classes do. And the fact that it's easy to escape from a Serpent is a large balancing factor to Serpents themselves having a good escape.

Most momentum classes aren't affected by evade. Occie [Occultist]/Alc [Alchemist] definitely aren't. You're killing yourself if you evade vs those, because they're just going to follow you instantly and you're still stuck in their tentacle/homunclus. If you have literally perfect timing, you might be able to move after your evade. Occultist is probably literally impossible to evade/move away from with a fast chase, and alc probably comes down to milliseconds if you time the evade perfectly. I notice that most top tier fighters have extremely little trouble chasing evade.
"


You can take that for what it's worth, but that's one random post on our combat council forum about one PvP ability out of 1000+. Any game with real depth to its combat can have a similar discussion I'd imagine, but attrition it's not.

Last edited by the_logos : 04-20-2015 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 04-19-2015, 10:57 PM   #9
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

Because of this thread, I actually decided to update my knowledge of certain games I played a long time ago and subsequently quit because I hated something about them.

I started a new character in Achaea today (because I have no way of remembering who my old paladin was). The only thing I recognized from last time was the butterfly quest, and I quickly also recalled the annoyance of a very slow newbie monster respawn, which is the only reason why I'm not actually still playing Achaea at the very moment I write this post. I haven't got to the whole part about running around to find all the herbs and pipes and potions and stuff, but it was all of that and the hammerspace storage system that comprised one of the two major reasons for why I quit in the first place (the other reason being that, back then, it felt like I had to take a college course and exams just to be able to have PCs from my community allow me to advance). The attrition I mentioned previously was that the required stockpile and mechanism to access said stockpile made PvP combat feel like a battle to see who would run out of stuff first.

I'm going to keep playing when I get around to it, but if those two things haven't been improved, then I don't see what the point in playing is. The tutorial feels long winded, by the way, but Alter Aeon is much better at that type of adventuring.

Last edited by dark acacia : 04-20-2015 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 04-20-2015, 12:49 AM   #10
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by dark acacia View Post

(the other reason being that, back then, it felt like I had to take a college course and exams just to be able to have PCs from my community allow me to advance).
Yeah, that is literally one of the worst things ever. We're pretty lore and history-heavy, and are continually generating new lore and history that matter to people through player and admin action, but nobody wants to write essays, and yet player organizations at one point evolved, in some cases, requirements to basically do exactly what you said (and write essays!). That's largely been squashed, thankfully, through general recognition that it's not fun for almost anybody beyond a few obsessive types with a lot of time on their hands. We made it very clear that the administration doesn't approve.

Quote:
The attrition I mentioned previously was that the required stockpile and mechanism to access said stockpile made PvP combat feel like a battle to see who would run out of stuff first.
Oh, yeah, that really has nothing to do with Achaean combat. Once you're anywhere near competent, running out of crucial things mid-combat doesn't really happen.

Quote:
The tutorial feels long winded, by the way, but Alter Aeon is much better at that type of adventuring.
Yeah, it's definitely long-winded for people used to a text interface/MUD paradigm. It's aimed at people who have never played MUDs before. And the trouble with making it optional via a "Are you a MUDer?" type question (we did that at one point) is that a lot of people who aren't answer yes and then end up completely lost. Probably need something like that though where we shunt people through a much more compressed intro.
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Old 04-24-2015, 11:53 PM   #11
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

Is combat still almost entirely automated, though?


I ask this out of genuine interest since last time I dabbled in fighting in Achaea, much like Aetolia it was a requirement to either write or procure a system in order to participate in any meaningful sense. I realise things like firstaid in Aetolia lower the entry barrier to PVP in that the system does some of the work for you but this is kinda my point; the combat system seems to centre itself around automation (and indeed pander to it from my experience in Aetolia) which for me sucks all of the adrenalin out.
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Old 04-25-2015, 02:57 PM   #12
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

You don't need a 'system' to participate, particularly as you can set up server-side curing and now that affliction status is sent to you out-of-band via gmcp (figuring out what afflictions you had and curing them was the raison d'etre of most systems in the past), but 'system' is also a pretty encompassing term that includes things like dynamically highlighting names based on their enemy status to you or attempting to help track what afflictions your opponent likely has based on the imperfect info you can gather from the game's output.

You'd certainly want to set up aliases and macros to help you, of course, as nobody can type that fast.

Last edited by the_logos : 04-25-2015 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 04-25-2015, 03:48 PM   #13
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

The class changes from the classleads program in april 2015 went live recently on Achaea. Classleads are a program where players suggest and vote on changes to class skills, which we on the admin side take into account when deciding how to alter classes for balance and interest.

This batch of classleads includes the following changes:


Apostasy
--------
* SYPHON now produces a less informative third person message when it cures an affliction.
* FURY will now only convey the balance bonus in the room it was enacted in.

Armoursmithing
--------------
* FIELDPLATE has been re-added to the skill, providing a cheaper alternative to fullplate.

Devotion
--------
* HEALING (rite) now produces a less informative third person message when it cures an affliction.

Harmonics
---------
* CONTROL will now allow dismissing of harmonics by name and number.
* HALLELUJAH now produces a less informative third person message when it cures an affliction.

Kaido
-----
* NUMB can no longer be used with prone.
* CHOKE will be more informative to the monk if the target is holding their breath.
* TRANCE no longer prevents modifications to the monk's ENEMY lists.

Occultism
---------
* ENLIGHTEN will now correctly prevent WHISPERINGMADNESS from being cured.

Reclamation
-----------
* REVIVE has been added to the skill.

Spirituality
------------
* CARE now produces a less informative third person message when it cures an affliction.

Subterfuge
----------
* PINSHOT now prevents elevation changes alongside regular movement.

Tarot
-----
* CHARGE and SUPERCHARGE have been removed. Tarot cards are now automatically charged when flung.
* FLING balance now scales based on skill level in Tarot.
* FLING will automatically attempt to OUTDECK a card if there is not one in the caster's inventory.

Tekura
------
* Tekura accuracy has been adjusted across the board.
* Stances have been reworked, each providing a standardised level of limb damage while providing a variety of new benefits.
* Stances can be switched without balance cost following the completion of a Tekura attack or COMBO.
* The resource drains related to the various blocks have been adjusted.
* PALMSTRIKE has been reworked.
* BLADEHAND has been reworked.
* JAB has been reworked.
* AXE has been reworked.
* ROUNDHOUSE no longer paralyses the opponent, but gains a shield smashing component.
* BACKBREAKER damage has been reworked, providing a more even damage output against varying levels of armoured opponents.
* WHIRLWIND will no longer strip deafness.
* BODYBLOCK now offers damage resistance against denizens alongside its existing effects.

Telepathy
---------
* The resource drains related to Telepathy abilities have been adjusted.
* LOCK break chances have been adjusted.
* THROW will now cause damage to IMPALE'd targets.
* SCYTHE has been reworked.
* LOCK will now only be interrupted on larger equilibrium usage, rather than any.

Vision
------
* COMPOUNDS has been added to the skill.

Misc.
-----
* Food is no longer consumed in the arena.
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Old 04-26-2015, 06:34 PM   #14
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

Even if the term "system" is not used / preferred, I thought my post was fairly obvious in its spirit. Stuff like server side curing if I'm understanding properly is a way of minimising the scripting, not minimising the need or prevalence of automation.

What I'm really asking is whether the spirit of PVP is for bot fighters to reign supreme still? I know it is in Aetolia and if you're offering server-side curing et al as a way to compete against that then I can only assume this is the case in Achaea as well since regardless of whether my client or the game itself does the curing for me -- it's still out of my hands.
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:39 PM   #15
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

I'm not at the point yet where I can answer your question. I see lots of curative items in shops, and I remember that it used to be that way when I first tried Achaea.

Something that has turned me off a bit from Achaea this time around is that it seems like my house and city are dead. My house has a lot of messages from the past year or two about people quitting, and there's only a few people on at best. The city is the same and there hasn't been much engagement with them. I'm kind of without direction now that I hit level 21.
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Old 04-28-2015, 09:44 AM   #16
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

Maybe Achaea and for that matter, Imperian, could create and sell customizable combat systems for the various classes. At least in Imperian, it seems combat is dominated by a few individuals, who are nearly untouchable by us low and mid level combatants. Just a thought, but it tends to be more fun when everybody has some chance at winning a battle.
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Old 04-28-2015, 10:37 AM   #17
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

From this I'm kind of assuming that I'm right in that if you don't have some kind of autocuring setup you simply can't compete?
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Old 04-28-2015, 02:30 PM   #18
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

Pretty much. They call it "skill" but it's just a system. Avalon works that way too, and they all act like the traditional "kill <target>, use <skill/spell> <target>" system is horrible.

I wouldn't buy stuff like that for a game which feels like it's dying. I joined Hashan City and the Black Lotus Clan in Achaea and they're pretty dead, but I don't know what the other cities and houses are like.
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Old 05-05-2015, 06:40 PM   #19
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

Achaea and Imperian have sever-side healing systems already available immediately for players to use. A new player simply acquires all the herbs and curatives needed and performs: autocuring on.

What I was suggesting in my previous post was a combat system for sale or for free for the various classes/professions such as to display a message if an enemy is starting an instant kill routine. Most players have created some sort of system through trial and error, but a combat system for sale or free would allow newbies a chance to know when to escape and receive more detail about what was happening during a fight. Fights occur very quickly with a lot of information happening at once; a good combat system helps to highlight the most pertinent information. The top players have very sophisticated combat systems that they have created themselves. A more generic combat system available immediately on the server for newbies would allow them a better chance at entering into combat faster. It would, also, assist seasoned players who don't have much of a system in place.

Overall, my favourite MUD so far is Imperian. The quality of the Iron Realm games outshines pretty much all other MUDs that I have seen. The IR games have a lot of polish to them, with great quests both small and large. The crafting system seems very advanced and the help files are among the best. In my opinion, Achaea and Imperian are definitely MUDs that any MUD aficionado should try out at least once.
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Old 05-06-2015, 10:34 PM   #20
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Re: Huge changes to Achaea's skills

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Pretty much. They call it "skill" but it's just a system. Avalon works that way too, and they all act like the traditional "kill <target>, use <skill/spell> <target>" system is horrible.
Oh, there's immense skill in our PvP. I could hand you whatever 'system' you want and a fully kitted out character and you'd still get owned over and over and over by people with far less kitted out characters than yours. Our top combatants understand our very deep combat to an incredible degree, to the point that we hired our top combatant as a developer a couple years ago, as he understood it better than our staff did. (Random fact: he's also blind, which makes his dominance of PvP even more amazing to me.)

Quote:
I wouldn't buy stuff like that for a game which feels like it's dying. I joined Hashan City and the Black Lotus Clan in Achaea and they're pretty dead, but I don't know what the other cities and houses are like.
Hashan is the least populated of the cities, by a wide margin. Achaea's in no danger of dying at all, and has actually never had more paid staff working on it than now (four full-time, three part time, plus lots of volunteers).
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