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Old 07-21-2002, 03:02 PM   #1
Chapel
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Angry

It dawned on me recently as I was back to back with my angel and fighting a horde of townspeople...

Every single person over the level of one in a MUD is a psychopathic killer!! I mean we mass murder into the thousands to reach our goals. In the nature of roleplay, how do we look to the denizen of the MUD. Ooooh, you say they are only mobs right...

So if I walked down the street and started offing people, can I tell the authorities that I was only killing mobs to advance myself? I would think not. I mean Paladins, Knights, Clerics, run through mobs and guards and "GOOD" "people" in a MUD like they were soup, finger food even.

I suppose my point is that I understand how apathy can grow at a MUD, I mean you start off releasing all morals and diving into a decadent society of killers and thieves, and you smile while doing it. There has to be a better way to gain experience...

...
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Old 07-21-2002, 03:46 PM   #2
Jazuela
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You're not playing the right game then, if it's an actual concern to you.

There are many games that don't require characters to hunt in ordered to advance. Some of them have no "levels" that you need advancement for in the first place. Some don't even have specific skills you have to train in. Those would be the "pure" RP muds, where everything is acted out.

There are hybrids, such as the one I play, in which "defending your town against the viscious monsters that infest it" is only ONE option of many. Crafting is also a viable option for advancement, where you can learn to weave clothes and spin yarn on a loom, or carve, forge, or cast jewelry, or cut gems to increase value, or be a thief, or combine various skills to create your own "profession."

In the game I play, one of my characters hunts to advance. She considers it her obligation to the darklands to help protect her fellow citizens by destroying the creatures that threaten them. My OTHER character, however, makes leather armor. He makes bows as well, but he prefers to create things to defend, rather than things to destroy, and so he prefers to make armor. This is how he advances in "levels" and this is what he trains in. He is capable of hunting very low tiers with his one and only learned sorcery spell, but he generally prefers to stay in the tannery all day and chat with his friends at the local tavern.

So again, your complaint certainly doesn't apply to all games. It applies only to games that require characters to hunt in ordered to advance. And while those seem to be in the majority, they are definitely not the only types of games out there.
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Old 07-21-2002, 04:01 PM   #3
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The imagination is the limit on this issue. Create a system of gaining exps through various gaming functions. We have fishing, healing, mining, studying, digging, merchants coming soon, and tons of other ways to gain experience without mob killing. One player leveled from 1 to hero from fishing alone, never killed a mob. I have had several characters that never wield weapons, they would die before slaughtering another! Just can't see having a nun beat up on anyone

Takes a little finesse hard coding it, but there are limitless ways to offer alternative advancement systems.
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Old 07-21-2002, 05:01 PM   #4
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As long as there is out-of-character necessity for mass slaughter or rapid use of skills for the progression of one's character, people will continue to do these things. If you don't, you are put at a disadvantage.

There are a few good MUDs out there that have done away with levels and experience points and have enforced roleplaying to such a degree that that such occurences rarely, if ever, happen. Personally, I'd like to see more MUDs follow suit.

Ghardoan, avid addict of Armageddon MUD.
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Old 07-21-2002, 07:37 PM   #5
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This is why I consider leveling completely ooc. Because I don't think that any of my characters would go around slaughtering citizens or even cute fuzzy animals all day. You could simply say that you are practicing your skills by fighting creatures, but, if I am a mage, I don't practice by going around killing things, I would practice by studying tomes, or reciting a few spells.

So yes, to me, leveling in general isn't very realistic. I have played a mud where you gain experience purely from roleplaying.. which is a nice way of doing things if that is what you want the focus of your mud to be. And, like some people have said, if you want a pure rp mud, you can do away with levels and exp completely.
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Old 07-21-2002, 09:44 PM   #6
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Angry

After reading what Jazuela and Kyrene wrote I have come to the decision that I like the mass slaughter, and will continue to do it. I'd rather watch grass grow than fish to become a hero or make clothing for the self-righteous do gooders and anti-socialists.

Bleh!

Bring on the city guards!!!!

...
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Old 07-25-2002, 08:28 AM   #7
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Senseless slaughtering of mobs is what eventually put me off my old "RP-Enforced" mud and led me to search for a new one. I wanted to RP and got sick of killing things for no good IC reason - xp, xp, xp...wow that rabbit had money on him! Like Ghardoan I found Armageddon and I've become an addict too. Theoretically, you could become a powerful warrior without ever fighting a 'real' fight. Skills increase through practice so my warrior PC was able to get reasonably handy with a sword just training with the other recruits in a noble's house. Likewise, you could become tough by playing the career of a hunter. Sure you're killing mobs but it makes sense - you kill the mob and then skin it and gut it. Back in town you sell the skin to a merchant / crafter and cook the meat. Also, the fact that it's permadeath means that you tend not to go on killing sprees against whatever crosses your path - makes you stop and think about your actions.

All depends what you want I suppose. If you're happy with hacking and slashing around the world without an IC reason stick with it. I found it dull after a while personally and find Armageddon's system far more realistic and to my liking.
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Old 07-25-2002, 10:34 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Kyrene @ July 21 2002,3:01 pm)
The imagination is the limit on this issue. Create a system of gaining exps through various gaming functions. We have fishing, healing, mining, studying, digging, merchants coming soon, and tons of other ways to gain experience without mob killing. One player leveled from 1 to hero from fishing alone, never killed a mob. I have had several characters that never wield weapons, they would die before slaughtering another!  Just can't see having a nun beat up on anyone

Takes a little finesse hard coding it, but there are limitless ways to offer alternative advancement systems.
LoL, my char on daedal macabre is a chaotic good monk, and he gets decent XP from killing tourists in the zoo.

They also give good gold.
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Old 07-25-2002, 11:43 AM   #9
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O.o you mean, you don't sit in a burlap sack brown robe thingy and meditate in the snow? I'm so disillusioned >.<
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Old 07-25-2002, 12:18 PM   #10
Wenlin
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But we can't really compare muds to rl like that. Just like when we were testing the sap skill for realism...

You don't have to kill innocent people, you might be killing undead; who cares about them? Or animals in a forest that mysteriously are in complete abundance every X minutes. Its population control!

Levelling, ooc or ic...ic its just honing your fighting skills. You can be in as many fighter jet simulations you want, but you're going to have to fly a real one before you're a heroic pilot.

I made NO sense there! And I pride myself in that
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Old 07-25-2002, 02:32 PM   #11
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Exclamation

I would like to touch briefly on what Kyrene Said.
As most of you who read anything about me i live eat and breath Daedal Macabre.
I myself started out a human Necromancer. But when i created i decided on one area i would "practice" my arts...it was a smaller lvl and the creatures were weak. There was no way for me to level there. I lvled buy studying and studying more. Yet i always went to the same place to practice my spells. This incidently is the place where my current project "Inty" lives. So its a double bonus. As it is i practice all my spells of maladictions and death and decay on these "lesser beings" and that is a way to stay in caracter and be true to who i am. When I remorted to a Succubus. I stuck with my ways of practicing on these same lesser beings and choose to lvl by studying the books for the dark arts.
Its took longer than some ways of leveling. But if your on a Good MUD and have a good imagination then you should be able to find a way to bring yourself up without compromising who you are and wanna be

Feyona
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Old 07-30-2002, 02:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Kyrene @ July 25 2002,10:43 am)
O.o you mean, you don't sit in a burlap sack brown robe thingy and meditate in the snow? I'm so disillusioned >.<
Indeed. I'd have to say DoorMUD does a way better monk than Daedal Macabre does.

I love Daedal Macabre, but some things are off. Like having a zoo in the first place.
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Old 07-30-2002, 02:53 PM   #13
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There are plenty of MUD's that don't require you to become a serial mass murderer in order to advance your character. My MUD happens to be one of them. The catch is making the alternative fun and easy for people. If it's complicated people will just want to go kill things instead.

Just look around I'm sure you'll find one.
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Old 08-12-2002, 04:07 PM   #14
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If you are having issues with what your character is killing, but do not want to leave the game you're in, I would recommend telling Admin your issues. Then talking to them about putting in more areas where the things to kill are not tourists, kids, guards, etc. More animals, more undead, more thieves camps, more illusions, etc. Things that a "fighter" type character can justify killing even if they are an honorable do-gooder. Provided your mud has a decent building team, they should be able to, with time, put in such areas for all levels.

Personally, I'd rather not fight at all. I like levelling by making clothing, forging, roleplaying, and healing. But that is all possible on the primary game I play, and may not be on others. On the other game I visit occassionaly, I have had quests to go kill little girls. Talk about feeling mean!

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Old 08-23-2002, 07:34 PM   #15
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The mud I play has many many crafts you can learn, and in fact the way for a fighter to hone his skills is not by killing everything he can, but by keeping his opponent alive as long as possible so he can keep sparring him. And there are places where if an npc is annoying you and you wanna kill it, you'd better make sure the wrong people don't see you do it or you're in for trouble.

With that said, I think even on skill-based muds there's always gonna be a lot of people who just care about advancing their skills and nothing else. Even on a highly RP oriented mud, the simple fact is a lot of people don't really care about anyone but themselves.

I guess my point (wow I had a point?) is that regardless of what kind of mud you're talking about, some people will do the simplest things they can get away with, some will add a few interesting touches, and some will push the envelope on what can legally be done with the existing code.
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