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Old 12-14-2005, 12:38 PM   #21
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In any event: This thread really isn't meant to be a discussion of how MUD administrators police sex. It's meant to be a discussion of whether players just fade to black or if they play it out. For purposes of this discussion, we'll assume the people behind the characters are adult and consenting.

So, putting the thread back on the rails: If you don't do it, why? If you do, what's the value in it and how do you do it without making it seem "goofy?"
I think you will find it nearly impossible for anyone to address a topic labeled sex without branching out into the various aspects of how it can have an effect upon a game.

To answer the question however, I do not participate in MUDsex. I will play out romance to a very intimate level if I am reasonably assured that my counterpart is an adult who has a firm grasp of the complexity of story telling. Unfortunately in relation to sex in story telling finding such an individual is nigh on impossible. So when the romance progresses to hank-panky for me it is time to play a little Metallica and 'Fade to Black'.

To address the tangent that others have taken I think CHATsex has been a destroyer of many an otherwise good game. Frankly as soon as people get their cyber libido going any adherence to story-line and RP is often tossed right out the window. I have seen this occur even is so called RP encouraged and enforced games. Some people seem to care about getting their cyber-kicks more then the integrity of the lore of the game they play. Such is what it is. Some people enjoy it I just pick up and move on to a new game.
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Traveler @ Dec. 14 2005,13:38)
I think you will find it nearly impossible for anyone to address a topic labeled sex without branching out into the various aspects of how it can have an effect upon a game.
I don't mind discussing how it affects other facets of a game, so long as it's done in the context of a player's personal choice (rather than an administrator, such as myself, declaring that it's off limits, wrong, etc. on their particular game). If you don't engage in virtual sex because you believe it can ruin the game for yourself and others, that's totally valid.
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Old 12-15-2005, 12:19 PM   #23
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I like the idea that your pc could have sex if they wanted. I just don't want to be there when they do. It seems kind of silly and time consuming, and...I don't feel completely comfortable with the whole thing. Also, it takes too long. The game days spent rping sex could be better used to take over the world. Right Pinky?
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Old 01-10-2006, 09:08 PM   #24
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Well, all I want to say is seriously folks, make sure you target your emotes! Because the innocent locksmith who just popped into the honeymoon suite to get some strawberries does not want your elftongue in her roundie ear....or any other parts.

Ok, that never actually happened, although similar enough did that it COULD have. So always assume you're being watched.
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Old 01-11-2006, 07:40 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by (Traveler @ Dec. 14 2005,13:38)
To address the tangent that others have taken I think CHATsex has been a destroyer of many an otherwise good game. Frankly as soon as people get their cyber libido going any adherence to story-line and RP is often tossed right out the window. I have seen this occur even is so called RP encouraged and enforced games.  Some people seem to care about getting their cyber-kicks more then the integrity of the lore of the game they play. Such is what it is. Some people enjoy it I just pick up and move on to a new game.
That can sometimes be true, but not always. Often, if it is properly roleplayed, it can be a very strong RP development between two characters that love each other. Far from destroying RP, it can encourage it. I play an RP-enforced MUD, and I've done it twice so far, neither time have I broken role, neither time have I dropped everything for "cyber-kicks". It has been a very powerful event between my character and the character he is in love with.
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Old 01-11-2006, 08:08 AM   #26
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RE: The logos

You don't see any relevance why mud-sex should be penciled out of public MU* environments? It's the same reason you have to be 18 to get into porn sites. Sexual predators who attack children in a MU* could easily contact the player for their personal information and do whatever they see fit from there. You'd feel really good if something like that happened at Iron Realms, eh?

I really fail to see your point of view on this. Although it is your opinion, and as much as I respect it, I cannot help but be sickened by it.

Video games are violent and played by all ages. But you don't see or read about naked bodies doing the hump-hump in them. And it's for a reason. Do you have kids? Would you like your ten year old humping with some 35yr old bulgarian in a text-based game?
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Old 01-11-2006, 08:38 AM   #27
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I'd rather have my 10 year old humping a 35 year old person (don't know what you have against Bulgarians...) than my kid at the age of 35 (still a virgin) humping a 10 year old.

But in both scenarious I would wonder the same thing:
WHAT THE #### IS WRONG WITH ME AS A PARENT THAT I'M TRYING TO PUT THE BLAME ON THE GAME INSTEAD OF TAKING MY OWN RESPONSIBILITY
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Old 01-11-2006, 09:27 AM   #28
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I do not believe the point here is who is to blame. I believe the point is doing what we can from making it worse.

MU* can be played from some libraries, schools, and other places that parents would not be able to take responsibility. That is when the responsibilities fall into the hands of the librarians, the schoolteachers...and the game makers.

Porn is made for audiences that are monitored.
Rated R and Explicit Lyrics CDs are monitored when sold.

Why would you let sex into a game where you know children of all ages can potentially play?
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Old 01-11-2006, 11:01 AM   #29
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It never ceases to amaze me that people are so concerned about sexual content and so uncaring about the violence and blood that literally drips out of almost every Mud ever made. I guess we do not worry about what kids take in anymore and just about what is done to them.

I mean if you are going to talk about Ratings, how can you just ignore all the other things that can earn an R or an X?

The people who run games have no absolute way to tell how old their players are. They can ask, they can monitor, but in the end it is never going to be more than that. The Teachers, Librarians, and Parents do know, and they are in the best position to keep kids away from that which they do not see. They are also the ones who are responsible for teaching their children how to NOT let the sickos get their hooks in. Muds cannot teach this and it is unfair to expect them to do so.

And I am frankly a little tired of the 'sexual predator' boogyman. Yes there are terrible sick people out there, and yes it is worth some time and effort to catch/stop/treat them. But not every aspect of life should be governed by what some sicko MIGHT do because of a game.

It is like 'rabies', is there anyone reading this who at some time or another when growing up was not sternly warned not to mess with some animal because 'They carry Rabies!!!'. And of the people here, how many have ever even SEEN an animal with rabies?

Like any powerful thing, sexual content can overwhelm the normal play of a game. But that is a weakness in the game, a lack of power in other places, and that is what needs to be addressed. Simply banning sex is a cheap and easy way that does nothing to address the real problems. Not surprisenly, it is the most popular route to go.

Sex in a RP enviroment can add a level of attachment and depth that nothing else can match. RP is 'enhanced life' and the same things that move us in RL are supposed to be a part of RP. It can also be purile, cheap, and distracting, just like in RL.


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Old 01-11-2006, 08:14 PM   #30
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The fact remains that young children, children who aren't even in middle school, play these games. Is it fine for some 30yr old behind the identify of a character to start having fantasy sex with them?

If you say yes, you are one sick ####.
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Old 01-11-2006, 09:16 PM   #31
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IMHO Mudsex has no place on any MUDS when you cannot control access to minors.  So no, I don't engage in it, neither have I ever been approached by other PC's in that manner.  Why? I wasn't looking for it!  People who engage in mudsex have to be looking for that kind of gratification, & I do not buy Mr.Tau's argument that: "Sex in a RP enviroment can add a level of attachment and depth that nothing else can match. RP is 'enhanced life' and the same things that move us in RL are supposed to be a part of RP."  Bullsh*t!! You're looking to get your rocks off, & that's OOC not RP!!

Yet in the same post he states: "The people who run games have no absolute way to tell how old their players are. They can ask, they can monitor, but in the end it is never going to be more than that."

I've played D&D since it's invention, & would not consider RPing sex with other player-characters, as that is not why we play D&D.  It would be embarassing for the other players not involved, even though we are all adults over 18.  So I fail to see why it would be OK on a MUD, when you can't ID how old the person is behind the character you are trying to screw.  

I wonder what kind of MUD Mr. Tau is developing, one where instead of killing the dragon (he stated "but I find real violence to be FAR more objectionable than sex.") you give it oral mudsex??
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Old 01-12-2006, 10:07 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Dec. 09 2005,17:00)
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Brody @ Dec. 09 2005,14:29)
What makes the act of consensual virtual sex between two characters in a private place any more unsavory than acts of virtual violence? If we're really trying to protect the young from things that might hurt their psyches, it's kind of hypocritical to encourage violence while dismissing sex as goofy and harmful, right?
Three words: Fundamentalist Christian A**holes. You know, the sort who -freak out- about sex generally but who are happy to engage in violence and murder on a massive scale. With leaders like these, can you blame the rest of the culture if it follows along?

--matt
The morbid and overwhelming fear that somewhere, at any given time, someone else may be enjoying themselves?

I think we should put Anafranil* in the water supply, personally. I am firmly convinced that fundamentalism is a mental disorder which masks itself as freedom of religious practice.

But yes, I *can* blame the culture if it follows along. I'm very proud, of all things, Ford Motor Co. at the moment. It's a sad thing to see a corporation defending the Constitution more handily than the Congress.

*Anafranil is a treatment for obsessive/compulsive disorders.
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Old 01-14-2006, 06:22 PM   #33
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And I am frankly a little tired of the 'sexual predator' boogyman. Yes there are terrible sick people out there, and yes it is worth some time and effort to catch/stop/treat them. But not every aspect of life should be governed by what some sicko MIGHT do because of a game.
Are you tired of the sexual predator boogyman or are you becoming defensive because you MUDsex? It is not what people MIGHT do, it is what they DO. I worked with an individual, a 'family' person, for several years who murdered his live-in girlfriend because she dared interfere with his CHATsex.

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Three words: Fundamentalist Christian A**holes. You know, the sort who -freak out- about sex generally but who are happy to engage in violence and murder on a massive scale. With leaders like these, can you blame the rest of the culture if it follows along?
Ah yes reverse bigotry. It's bad to be a bigot but it's okay to hate the bigots in return.

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MU* can be played from some libraries, schools, and other places that parents would not be able to take responsibility. That is when the responsibilities fall into the hands of the librarians, the schoolteachers...and the game makers.
The best point that has been made thus far in my opinion.

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It never ceases to amaze me that people are so concerned about sexual content and so uncaring about the violence and blood that literally drips out of almost every Mud ever made. I guess we do not worry about what kids take in anymore and just about what is done to them.
I am still truly suprised that people find this to be a valid argument. Violence is bad and we let kiddies play violent games so introducing them into an uncontroled sexual environment is okay.

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That can sometimes be true, but not always. Often, if it is properly roleplayed, it can be a very strong RP development between two characters that love each other. Far from destroying RP, it can encourage it. I play an RP-enforced MUD, and I've done it twice so far, neither time have I broken role, neither time have I dropped everything for "cyber-kicks". It has been a very powerful event between my character and the character he is in love with.
Well then I am sincerely happy for you. I find your case to be the exception and not the rule in my experience.
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Old 01-14-2006, 11:59 PM   #34
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*cries a river*

I don't get off on 'mudsex' in the slightest. In fact, I found it more awkward than anything else, but deriding and condemning those that do do it is assinine, in my opinion. Yes, it does add to a scene and can contribute greatly to developing relationships and, no, not everyone who partakes is a drooling pedo, cruising for kiddy love.

Don't like your kids looking at or participating in such 'naughty' stuff? Maybe you should be busy parenting instead of condemning these perverts, mmm?

I can point you to a hundred, no... a thousand, no... a ****ing MILLION sites out there that feature stuff far, far, far worse than reading 'The blue eyed man sucks your nipple' in the oh-so-erotic tones of Zmud green, mmm.... All of these sites are easily accessible by unsupervised children, perverts, ex-cons, or closet-homosexuals who are, in fact, Presbyterian ministers in their spare time. Let's shut down the internet. It's obviously too dangerous to be allowed to run wild like this.

Ahhh. Nice to laugh hysterically when people blame their lack of parenting on Mudsex, violent video games, or Flowers for Algernon.

I've no doubt that many mudsex sessions are simply an outlet for one handed typers to get their rocks off, but so are many an AoL chatroom, IRC room, and a thousand other places. The mud Niche is probably a tiny one in the ped-cruising internet underbelly, eh?
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Old 01-15-2006, 01:05 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by (Jazuela @ Dec. 08 2005,18:18)
Most of the time I would "fade to black," meaning, get some kissing and a bit of groping started but once it comes to the hay-rolling part I (or the other person) would send an OOC message saying we'll just assume it happened and skip to the zipping the pants back up part.
Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman have a GREAT term for this: They call it "the boot scene." I read about this in one of their annotated reprintings of (I believe) the Companions series.

Basically, the idea is that the characters are sorta getting hot and heavy, and then next thing you see, they're putting their boots on.

Ever since we read that book, if my wife and I are watching a movie and there is an annoying "love scene" that adds nothing to the movie and is just a pure time waster, we start saying "Boot scene! Boot scene please!"
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Old 01-15-2006, 06:26 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by
Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman have a GREAT term for this: They call it "the boot scene." I read about this in one of their annotated reprintings of (I believe) the Companions series.

Basically, the idea is that the characters are sorta getting hot and heavy, and then next thing you see, they're putting their boots on.

Ever since we read that book, if my wife and I are watching a movie and there is an annoying "love scene" that adds nothing to the movie and is just a pure time waster, we start saying "Boot scene! Boot scene please!"
Right, this was within the annotated Chronicles trilogy, and it is an excellent point, though it works for what Weis and Hickman were going for. The entire point of their books was to tell the story, their linear story, that no one could change, because it is a book.

What MUDs do, better than any other game, is create an immersive roleplaying realm, that you can do (or may try to) do anything in. I'm not going to nessecarily argue for nor against it, but are we trying to make a real world, or are we not? I suppose it depends on what game you play.

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MU* can be played from some libraries, schools, and other places that parents would not be able to take responsibility. That is when the responsibilities fall into the hands of the librarians, the schoolteachers... and the game makers.
I'm going to have to disagree. Just because someone can access something in public does not mean that it should not be allowed within the game. You can access pornography, hate sites, and shock pages from a public library, most of the time. What on earth are you doing playing games in a library anyway? I think it's fantastically amusing to say that it is the responsibility of a game maker to censor the above mentioned actions because someone might play it in public. I might also read a Playboy in public, I might play Grand Theft Auto in a mall, I could use a chatroom at a netcafe for underhanded purposes, I may do any number of things. But if we're going to start limiting what can be done because it may be done in view of others, then we're going to bloody well remove half of the internet, and most of today's movies and television.
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Old 01-15-2006, 08:42 AM   #37
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Glad to see some decent people in this thread finally.

Hi, I'm William. lol
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Old 01-15-2006, 12:59 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by (Traveler @ Jan. 14 2006,19:22)
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Three words: Fundamentalist Christian A**holes. You know, the sort who -freak out- about sex generally but who are happy to engage in violence and murder on a massive scale. With leaders like these, can you blame the rest of the culture if it follows along?
Ah yes reverse bigotry. It's bad to be a bigot but it's okay to hate the bigots in return.
Yes, I do believe it's ok to hate bigots. I have absolutely no problem telling you that someone who thinks black people should die is a scumball, or that someone who thinks that homosexuals are an abomination is a redneck piece of crap.

--matt
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Old 01-15-2006, 05:18 PM   #39
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I stopped playing out MUDsex scenes a long time ago, because if I'm putting that kind of time into it, rather than killing (aKa furthering the larger game-story/life), I'm definitely getting my rocks off somewhere, and the other person better be, too.

I see text-sex as a 'real' form of 'sex', because I don't define 'sex' as 'intercourse.' To that end, it involves real emotions and real gratification. Spending time like that since I've been married in real life is... cheating. It stops being role-play, and becomes sex. I'm not adverse to it, in fact, I *love* texting, and I miss cybering with people, because it's a sexual facet that I no longer really get to engage in. But it was *never* really role-playing, if I took the time to do it...his schlong better have been rock, and he'd better have been typing one-handed, because if he wasn't, he was wasting my time.

Our game has places specifically designed to accomodate cybering, those locked and snoop-free zones A. Tau was talking about. They are consistently empty. Cybering is best in IM, because MUDding is just...not real enough.
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Old 01-15-2006, 05:22 PM   #40
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99% of the time I see people who know each other come on the mud to fantasize somewhere private, and in normal gameplay they dont flaunt the relationship. I dont do anything about people like that, but if someone does anything like "emote rapes you." I feel right in deleting that character. Possibly ban. The wording we gave our rule is just "no sexual harassment".
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