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Old 02-03-2004, 05:12 PM   #1
the_logos
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There's no contact mail for mudmagic that I could find from its front page and I can't be bothered to sign up for an account so I'll post here, as I know Kyndig reads this site.

Summary: Mudmagic was blocking e-mail and whatnot from servers hosted with Wolfpaw.

One of the admins hosting with you is looking for a job with us. Makes it pretty difficult for him when my reply to him bounces a week later due to indecent.mudmagic.com blocking Wolfpaw customers. You removed the blocks from some of your servers, but apparently forgot some.

Sort it out, as you're doing your customers absolutely no favors at all in your little war with Wolfpaw.

--matt
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Old 02-03-2004, 05:22 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ foo)
There's no contact mail for mudmagic that I could find from its front page and I can't be bothered to sign up for an account so I'll post here, as I know Kyndig reads this site.
I went to confirm this. There is no contact on the front page. I figured it'd probably be on the Mud Hosting page, and indeed there is a Contact Us menu on the left. Took less than a minute. It's also the first hit of a pretty obvious Google search.
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Old 02-03-2004, 05:30 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Yui Unifex @ Feb. 03 2004,16:22)
Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ foo)
There's no contact mail for mudmagic that I could find from its front page and I can't be bothered to sign up for an account so I'll post here, as I know Kyndig reads this site.
I went to confirm this. †There is no contact on the front page. †I figured it'd probably be on the Mud Hosting page, and indeed there is a Contact Us menu on the left. †Took less than a minute. †It's also the first hit of a pretty obvious Google search.
Fair enough, though I wasn't at all inclined to do even minimal searching through their site for a contact mail. This kind of behavior affects all their customers anyway so it's relevant here regardless.

--matt
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Old 02-03-2004, 09:40 PM   #4
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Logos, I sincerely doubt that your own laziness is adequate justification for such slander.

In regard to your supposition that Kyndig is being discourteous to its customers, nothing could be further from the truth. As a customer of Kyndig I can safely say that their attention to the needs and desires of their customers is second to none, their customer care, willingness help, and desire to provide the premium mud related website is beyond reproach.

On the rare occasions where I have had to address very minor issues with our provision, their response has been prompt, polite, attentive, and their solution has been applied swiftly (with a generosity of spirit, consideration, and gratuities that has gone way beyond the call of duty)

If other organizations showed half the commitment to customer satisfaction that Kyndig exhibits the business world would be a much nicer and less stressful place to operate in.

As Yui pointed out the contact us is plainly visible on the hosting page. In addition calling up Kyndigs own details would have given you his Aim addy etc, so you could have even talked with him in person Ė how many sites offer that level of contact?

Considering the fact that you know he is a member of this site and visits frequently why didnít you just send him a private message? The only reason for posting to the public forums when such a facility exists was to draw attention to the issue and perhaps score some points for wolfpaw by attempting to discredit this premium host. †

PS

Isnt there a stone waiting for you to crawl back under Logos
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Old 02-03-2004, 11:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Fharron @ Feb. 03 2004,20:40)
Considering the fact that you know he is a member of this site and visits frequently why didnít you just send him a private message? The only reason for posting to the public forums when such a facility exists was to draw attention to the issue and perhaps score some points for wolfpaw by attempting to discredit this premium host.
If the claim is true, don't you think it is something we should all know about?

One Mud Host blocking all emails from another mud host would certainly be a pretty sleazy business tactic. It sounds very AOLish.

I would certainly like to hear an explanation.
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Old 02-04-2004, 07:43 AM   #6
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Wolfpaw's explanation is on wolfpaw's website, linked straight off the main page, and has been there for a few days. †The matter had been resolved as far as I have been told, so this is just a "for reference" link since you asked.

http://www.wolfpaw.net/press/kyndig.php
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Old 02-04-2004, 08:02 AM   #7
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Dale @ Wolfpaw)
9. We Notice Kyndig blocked all of our IP's from his network Dec. 20th, We notice (because some email I attempted to send Kyndig bounces) that our entire network has been blocked from all his servers, with the exception of TMC. We looked further into this after receiving email from a customer about it, to discover that all muds on Kyndig.com hosted with us were showing as "down" because they could not be connected to via his connection checker. I thought this quite unfair, for reasons mentioned below, and we reciprocated the blockage to our servers
Absolutely ridiculous. You don't reciprocate to childishness with more childishness. You take the high road and attempt to resolve the issue with as little impact for your customers as possible. It is completely unacceptable for a hosting company to block a network unless that network is specifically impacting their customer service.
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Old 02-04-2004, 01:45 PM   #8
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Oh Good Lord. I completely agree with Unifex on this one. This has crossed whatever "Administration to Personal" level there ever was.
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Old 02-04-2004, 02:37 PM   #9
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I wonder if these two companies know that their price fixing agreements between each other are absolutely against the law.
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Old 02-04-2004, 02:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Feb. 04 2004,13:37)
I wonder if these two companies know that their price fixing agreements between each other are absolutely against the law.
I was thinking the same. It is against the law in sweden at least for companies to gang up on fixed prices. Been some issues with oil companies doing it etc etc.

From their page:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
6. Kyndig breaks pricing agreement with us
During the aforementioned conversation, Kyndig had brought up doing "free"
Hosting with some massive accounts. While the idea of doing "reliable" free
hosting had been broached publicly by several "paid" providers (including us,
which he got very upset at me for, when all we did was ask opinions) he informs
me he is going to do free hosting of some gigantic proportion (200 MB Space, a
good deal of ram, etc). I again reminded him that we had an agreement on selling
large (+100 MB) accounts for under 10 dollars, and him offering such a thing would
be a violation of that arrangement.. so all bets were off on price protection at
that point, he pretty much said he was going to do it anyway.
Now i have nothing against either wolfpaw or kyndig We will eventuallly maybe run our games off them and have bought a wolfpaw account for testing purposes in the past.

However, it is not good for the buisness if the large hosting companies gang together and agrees on price policies... not good for the customers.
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Old 02-04-2004, 03:40 PM   #11
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Just a comment here. I was not aware such a thing was against the law. The jest of it was that Kyndig was being hurt by our low prices, and as a result, we made an arrangement with him that neither of us would sell for under 9 dollars.

It was not designed to hurt the consumer, and that was not either of our intention. It was more of a nice geasture to not put someone else out of business.

My apologies if it was an offense,
D.
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Old 02-04-2004, 04:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (wolfpaw @ Feb. 04 2004,14:40)
My apologies if it was an offense,
I certainly didn't take offense. I host all of my own servers anyway so it doesn't affect me personally whatsoever.

I care a lot about the MUD market as a whole. I think we all benefit from the market for text games growing. The backstabbing and attempts to drag "competitor(s)" down is exceptionally unwise. You don't see Blizzard trashing Bioware, for example.

I would not want to see MUD hosting companies get in trouble because they engaged in illegal business practices that they may not have even known was illegal. Their role in the market is absolutely vital as they provide a low-cost option to people who want to run MUDs. Web hosting accounts don't provide the same types of services that MUD admins need and thus they are not a viable alternative. I like knowing there are a healthy number of MUD Hosting companies operating (hopefully profitably) because I believe it is good for all of us.

That is also why I am sad to learn that these MUD Hosting companies are engaged in a feud that in my opinion helps nobody yet harms everyone.
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Old 02-04-2004, 05:01 PM   #13
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Hi Threshold,

I absolutely agree with everything in your post. It is unfortunate that it has degraded to that point. I'm sure some people would say I contributed to it.. perhaps I did. It was not however, my intention to do that. I simply posted what was going on, because I felt it was time for people to know.. seeing as it was affecting them anyway.

D.
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Old 02-04-2004, 07:10 PM   #14
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the_logos: I see you've decided to come back, despite your previous posts to the contry. That's your decision of course, but how about - just for once - try starting a thread which isn't an attack on someone? Something which is, for example, constructive. Go on, try it - you might even like it!
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Old 02-04-2004, 08:29 PM   #15
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BURN!!!
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Old 02-04-2004, 08:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (KaVir @ Feb. 04 2004,18:10)
the_logos: I see you've decided to come back, despite your previous posts to the contry. †That's your decision of course, but how about - just for once - try starting a thread which isn't an attack on someone? †Something which is, for example, constructive. †Go on, try it - you might even like it!
Kavir: If you'd read what I said, it was that I would not involve myself in discussions. I still intend (as I said) to post announcements.

I am making an exception here since I'm sick of you flaming me while trying to paint yourself as anything but a flamer. Your flaming knows no bounds really. Despite the fact that your post contained absolutely nothing of relevance to this thread (and as a moderator on TMS one would ASSUME you know better.) you chose to flame, again. I don't believe I've ever attacked you personally and yet you take every opportunity to do the reverse.

I'm not going to say you're intentionally lying, but you're, minimally, quite clearly inventing your own reality. Let's look at the threads I have started in the last 3 months and let's see if your assertion that I only start threads that are attacks on people hold up.

1. "Mud magic: get it together". You can call it a flame, but I don't think it's really 'flaming' to point out a mud hosting service actively blocking e-mail from its own members. But whatever, we'll call it a flame if it'll make you happy and give you a reason to attack me. Considering you actually maintain a website flaming another mud (Medievia), you're not really one to talk when it comes to pointing out muds doing things you don't approve of.

2. "Bards + Achaean Year 350 wrapup" - Announcement

3. "The Scarlattan Theatre in year 350!" - Announcement

4. "Be a bookie in Achaea!" - Announcement

5. "A new forum for text muds" - Announcement

6. "The Mind's Eye" - Announcement

7. "Iron Realms sponsors Children's Charities" - Announcement

8. "Wolfpaw matches IRE's donation" - Announcement (This thread won't show up as a search for me since one your fellow moderators had to shut the thread down and lock it due to the idiots flaming us for announcing we're giving money to charity...nevermind that companies like Macy's take out full-page newspaper ads to announce the same thing.)

9. "Win a real world Glamdring in Achaea" - Announcement

So I see 1 out of 9 threads that I started in the last 3 months that can even remotely be considered a flame. No doubt actual evidence won't make much difference to you though as you're just looking for excuses.

--matt
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Old 02-04-2004, 10:04 PM   #17
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Regardless of who is right and who is wrong, this isn't the sort of thing we all really needed to see aired in public. It should have stayed between Dale and Calvin and settled quietly. That it's become a public issue is just sad and pathetic. Really. This should have been settled privately.
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Old 02-05-2004, 01:24 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Samson @ Feb. 04 2004,21:04)
Regardless of who is right and who is wrong, this isn't the sort of thing we all really needed to see aired in public. It should have stayed between Dale and Calvin and settled quietly. That it's become a public issue is just sad and pathetic. Really. This should have been settled privately.
I think as soon as MUD hosts start blocking traffic from each other it becomes an issue that the entire community has a right to know about.

I sure as heck would want to know about such behavior if I were looking for a MUD host.
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Old 02-05-2004, 03:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kavir: If you'd read what I said, it was that I would not involve myself in discussions. I still intend (as I said) to post announcements.
However this is quite clearly the "Webmasters" forum, under the "Discussions" section. It has nothing to do with the "announcements" forum (which is under the "promotions" section).

Quote:
Originally Posted by
I am making an exception here since I'm sick of you flaming me
Come now - I asked you to try posting something constructive. That's hardly a flame, by any definition of the word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
I'm not going to say you're intentionally lying, but you're, minimally, quite clearly inventing your own reality. Let's look at the threads I have started in the last 3 months
All of which are announcements.

When you used to post in the discussions sections, a large percentage of your posts appeared to be flame-bait - thus I was more than happy to see you state that you would no longer involve yourself in discussions.

Now you've started posting in the "discussions" section again, and (surprise surprise) your first post is a flame. And when I ask if you could try posting something nice for a change, you flame me in response, and imply that I'm a liar.

But perhaps I misunderstood - so let's clarify this. You stated that you would no longer involve yourself in discussions here, and would instead limit yourself to announcements only. You then posted a flame in the discussions section. Now please explain how I am the liar?
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Old 02-05-2004, 03:13 PM   #20
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Chuckle. Your pedantism knows no boundaries. What I posted was an announcement of general interest to -anyone- who either hosts with Mudmagic or who needs to communicate with someone at Mudmagic. What you posted was a completely off-topic flame based on completely untrue statements. I'm not even sure how you can justify taking the thread so off-topic except that you have this rabid hunger to attack me and then turn around and claim, "What? No no, I wasn't attacking! I don't do that!" (Nevermind your web page devoted to flaming Medievia.)

I don't expect an apology from you though as you have a long history of refusing to recognize when you're wrong. I'll just go back to ignoring anything you have to say on any subject but coding.

--matt
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