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Old 05-03-2002, 05:42 PM   #21
Seth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (KaVir @ May 03 2002,9:44 pm)
Seth, I'm sorry you feel hard-done-by, but you need to understand that if you go around harrassing and badmouthing the staff of a mud, they're not going to let you play there - it makes the mud look bad.  It doesn't matter how you justify it to yourself, other people will still perceive you as being obnoxious and offensive - it doesn't mean "the imms are turning people against you", it's just a natural reaction towards someone who acts in a very rude and brash manner - in much the same way you've attracted criticism on TMS.

For some reason all this talk of how someone speaking to you in a friendly manner makes them your "good friend" reminds me of Quinten Tarrentino's character in From Dusk Till Dawn...
KaVir, please believe me when I say that the worst thing I did when I talked about taunting was openly questing an immortal's deciscion concerning something that just happened. I fellt a person had been punish too harshly and I only got told to shut up when asking it the imm in person. Then I took it to the public channel. That's what I mean by taunting the power-abusive imms. Openly questioning their already rather provocative deciscions...

And for the good friend thing, we'll leave that as a misunderstanding. Apparently I misread what you said and understood it as that you know Kali and Moonbeam like good friends for year already.
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Old 05-03-2002, 05:50 PM   #22
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so Seth..anyways,you didnt answered to me..
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Old 05-03-2002, 07:12 PM   #23
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Hmmmmmm, "The artist formerly known as Ingham". I recognise that name (mainly because "Ingham" is similar to my surname rl), and I'm also sure we've been over all your gripes with RoD before on the old forums. Trying to drag people's dirt through the mud when they're not here to respond isn't the way to get any sympathy, and I bet that those of us who admin on largish muds will recognise your tone anyway...

My guess is that you're just subject to the cynicism and burnout that many a mud player experienced with their mud, said and did some dumb stuff, got told off by some imms and now you're trying to make them out to be complete bastards. Hell I have people that would swear I'm a bastard who I've had to "deal" with. But whether you like it or not, at the end of the day you're there as a housegues, and if you do 'jerkish' things, which they have the right to judge, then they have the right to kick you out.

Point being I just flat out refuse to believe that these people are as bad as you make them out to be. I've played RoD once, never met them, but, as the risk of generalising, I've met and dealt with your type I'd not hesitate to kick you off my mud, siteban etc if I considered you a pain. You'd be welccome to mail the appeals imm but if I could justify it then you're stuffed. That's just the way it is, nothing you can do about it. Bitching about those imms is just going to make you look stupid as going to another site and doing bad reviews cause you got kicked off is the oldest and lamest trick in the book =).
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Old 05-04-2002, 08:47 AM   #24
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Angry

well,hey..my point is that siteban is too harsh anyways.
I dont think it should be applied to ANYONE at all.
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Old 05-04-2002, 01:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
well,hey..my point is that siteban is too harsh anyways.
I dont think it should be applied to ANYONE at all.
Sorry, you simply don't have a clue =). You obviously have no experience at actually running a MUD...
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Old 05-04-2002, 02:05 PM   #26
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right,i never ran a mud,but hey,I didnt saw anyone who would deserve a ban before,and somehow,i dont think Seth is that kind of person..

heh,if such evil spammer liar and at all,bad guy like me isnt banned,why would they ban Seth ?
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Old 05-04-2002, 05:33 PM   #27
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You wouldn't ban these?:

- people that tellspam teenporn URLs
- people that harrass little girls by email, ICQ
- people that try hacking
- people that dole out really nasty, viscious, HORRIBLE abuse to others when they're under pressure, to the extent that the others want to leave the mud
- people that plain old constantly insult or provoke others in "OOC" ways. Your mother is a slut. etc
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Old 05-04-2002, 05:42 PM   #28
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well,maybe..but somehow I dont think Seth is such kind of person,and hey..I never seen jerks like that..
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Old 05-04-2002, 06:16 PM   #29
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Read 4, Shao. Read 4.

It does apply in this case, even based on Ingham's story.

I've had LESS then stellar interaction with Moonbeam et all, and I know RoD is corrupt, but I do know if someone was sitebanned without reason, heads would roll.

-D
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Old 05-04-2002, 06:33 PM   #30
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Seth, I have to agree with you.  The muds these days and their immortals seem to be power-hungry children. No offense to the good ones, but the bad ones sure are spreading the fame.  I myself came from a mud where the same thing happened to me.  Mine started with trying to HELP one of the female immortal there realize that she was being used and manipulated by a young man.  Her husband also immorts there and together as a circle of friends tried to help her.  Eventually she left the mud for a time and then the trouble started.  One of her other immortal friends blamed me for "running her off the mud" and proceeded to say that I had been responsible for getting another immortal denied.  (he was, in truth, denied because he did not complete his ONE and only work assignment)  The damage was done, and slowly and carefully the other immortals and even most mortal groups began to hate me and feel malice toward me.  It became so bad that when a problem did arise--a young man was stalking me on the mud, gating to me at every chance, harrassing me for hours on end, even with the forget command--that the immortals merely said that "they dont believe me enough or trust me enough" to investigate my claims.  A similar occurance happened when a mortal tried to get me in trouble by saying things to the immortals, I quickly sent a log I had managed to make of the conversation and it was quickly ignored, with these words "these logs will only destroy some good friendships" and it was tossed aside.
I will admit because of this mud, I have become a very cynical and untrusting person, and that perhaps is what led me to log almost every conversation I have ever participated in after the initial trouble began.  Because of that cynicism and mistrust, I am able to prove every word I have spoken here today, and I am sure, had Seth the same temper and determination and cynicism I had, he also would be able to prove his points.
Many of you want to chalk this up to "he isnt as innocent as he looks" and "he's done his part in making that happen" but if you'll refer back to my story, the only thing I was guilty of was trying to help someone who was being used and manipulated, even her husband(irl mind you, not on the mud) agreed that she needed help.
So, once again, Seth I do feel for you and your case, and I hope that you will one day find a mud to replace the one you lost because of such devious acts. Know that you have sympathy and support, for you are not the only one.
Cerise
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Old 05-04-2002, 06:41 PM   #31
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A few comments on your post, Cerise....

I know stuff like this happens. It has happened to me _many_ times in fact. However, that is one of the reasons for me designing my current MUD. In the end, it will be completely without staff - it will not need it.

Staffed MUDs tend towards favoritism and, well, unfair/biased administration. However, RoD is one of the biggest MUDs. If someone was banned completely without reason, then heads _would_ roll, I know as fact. Seth, as KaVir has said, is only saying his side of the story - the opposite side has had no chance to tell their story. Honestly, if Seth pulled the same crap he has detailed - questioning immortal judgements, taunting the immortals, etc. - on a MUD I ran, I'd likely kick him off as well. According to his own words, he was trying to undermine the immortal's authority _publicly_. From an imm point of view, that ONLY causes harm to the MUD, and brings no benefit whatsoever. By not taking it higher, and promptly taking it to public channels, in his OWN statement, it proves that he only had bad intentions.

You people may not like what I have to say, but honestly, that's what I see it as. I've been on the short-end of the stick many, many times - my most recent, The Sea of Storms, for "melodrama". A RP-enforced MUD. Banning for "melodrama". _That_ is the short-end of the stick. What Seth claims...-shrug-

-D
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Old 05-04-2002, 06:42 PM   #32
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please Dulan..can you at least try not to post negative posts about muds w/o proving them ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by
I know RoD is corrupt
You dont like it - its your bussiness.But if you want to tell others that you dont like it - please,prove that you have why to do not like it,allright ?

It looks like I know you're bad cuz you're actually very bad.In one word : Childish

And,about Seth..Im also ready to help..Anytime..
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Old 05-04-2002, 07:03 PM   #33
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Cerise, I would really like to thank you for your support concerning this all. It feels both good and bad knowing that I'm not the only one who was vistimized by power-abusive immortals and their little "cliques" of friends. Thank you

And Dulan, once again, I did NOT harass anyone to start with. It all started with me openly questioning an immortal's deciscion in a normal way. That is what made Moonbeam and her little sidekick Kali hate me. That is what started the serious crap, besides the odd little puddle of corruptness I occasionally found myself in. Read one of my earlier posts, it's all in there somewhere.
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Old 05-04-2002, 07:06 PM   #34
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Oh puh-lease.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The muds these days and their immortals seem to be power-hungry children.
I've been playing muds for 10 years. I'd say that generalisation is so profoundly untrue it's laughable. There were bad apples then, there are bad apples now. But to tar all muds with the same brush is quite preposterous. And this ant-RoD guy basically just has "issues". And, as someone who has had to deal with many people who have had "issues" in the past, my profound sympathies goes to the RoD guys, given their name is being dragged through the mud by someone who got banned for what appears to be perfectly legitimate reasons.
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Old 05-04-2002, 07:14 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (nass @ May 05 2002,12:06 am)
I'm a dull and thick twat and I can't accept the fact that someone other then me is right about something. Henceforth I will refer to my totally irrelevant past experiences and try to seem semi-smart by calling up a random psychological buzzword of which the meaning has eluded me for the past decade, because it is 'in' these days.
There, I replaced the untrue bits of your posts with something a little closer to reality. Happy trails.

Note: I'm starting to hate ikonboard.
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Old 05-04-2002, 07:24 PM   #36
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Sadly enough, that applies to you quite well, Seth.

May want to pay attention to what you post, as it could reflect back on you (amusingly).

-D
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Old 05-04-2002, 07:32 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Dulan @ May 05 2002,12:24 am)
Sadly enough, that applies to you quite well, Seth.

May want to pay attention to what you post, as it could reflect back on you (amusingly).

-D
I'd love to point out the flaws in that, but I don't have the time because I have to go back to college in a week. Other then that, nice attemp-... Hang on, my sarcasm-geiger-counter just melted down...
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Old 05-04-2002, 07:39 PM   #38
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College? -glances at the calender- Interesting. You go to -insert obviously racist statement here- U?

Now, onto a more serious post. Seth, you are insulting people over their honest opinions, simply because their opinions do not fit with your schema of the world (Pay attention to that word, anyone who has any interest in Psych. Unlike Seth's wannabe-psych babble, or the "issues" idiocy, that is a real term, and probably a good diagnosis of "why" Seth is so vindictive here.). Anyone who does not fit with said schema, you attack viciously regardless of what was stated in their opinion. As I said in a much longer post, something had to come from you in order to irritate them. However, in your schema of RoD, you never did anything, and you were perfectly innocent. Even the most corrupt imm must have a reason in order to act. According to you, their reason was you questioning an immortal's decision on a public channel, without taking it to a higher up first. That would righteously **** me off if you pulled it on my MUD. Questioning immortal decisions on a public channel without taking it to a higher-up undermines the staffs authority. Only a fool would tolerate that in a player that plays their place for free.

-D
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Old 05-04-2002, 07:44 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Seth @ May 05 2002,12:03 am)
It all started with me openly questioning an immortal's deciscion in a normal way. That is what made Moonbeam and her little sidekick Kali hate me.
Yup. And that was your mistake.

The lessons to draw out of this are:

1. Don't question an imm's decision within 48 hours, no matter how questionnable it seems to you.

2. If you really feel you have to question an imm's decision, you should do it by mail, and try not to sound attacking (use formulas like "in retrospect, I felt your decision was a bit harsh" above "you were too rash in dealing with blah")

3. Never, ever take it to public channels, be it comms or the in-game newsboards.

4. Realize that no matter how discontent you are with the administration, it is their game. It is their voice which decides how the place is run. A MUD is never a democracy, so you'll be on the losing end no matter what.

5. There's no point in arguing that the players "make the game" as much as the staff, no matter how true it is. From their point of view, if you have a problem with the way the place is run, you're not their target audience. Your only right is to disconnect, and trust me, it's easier to do out of your free will when you're discontent than to cope with a ban.
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Old 05-04-2002, 07:50 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Dulan @ May 05 2002,12:39 am)
College? -glances at the calender- Interesting. You go to -insert obviously racist statement here- U?

Now, onto a more serious post. Seth, you are insulting people over their honest opinions, simply because their opinions do not fit with your schema of the world (Pay attention to that word, anyone who has any interest in Psych. Unlike Seth's wannabe-psych babble, or the "issues" idiocy, that is a real term, and probably a good diagnosis of "why" Seth is so vindictive here.). Anyone who does not fit with said schema, you attack viciously regardless of what was stated in their opinion. As I said in a much longer post, something had to come from you in order to irritate them. However, in your schema of RoD, you never did anything, and you were perfectly innocent. Even the most corrupt imm must have a reason in order to act. According to you, their reason was you questioning an immortal's decision on a public channel, without taking it to a higher up first. That would righteously **** me off if you pulled it on my MUD. Questioning immortal decisions on a public channel without taking it to a higher-up undermines the staffs authority. Only a fool would tolerate that in a player that plays their place for free.

-D
Nice story. Would it work if I told you there were literally NO immortals who were of higher level and who were concerned with general gameplay? (You seem to know RoD so well, that you also might have to realize that it's the home of the SMAUG codebase and that the higher level immortals/coders spend most time developing SMAUG.) Well, one immortals was, but he is involved in a RL relationship so I HARDLY doubt that complaining to him about it would have worked, because like you said, "RoD is corrupt."

As for the pseado-psychological crap you spray around, I talked about it earlier. I don't feel like wasting precious time over THAT again. And about my college, it's called "Technisch College Ede" and it's a dutch one, yes. I suggest you first try to pronounce it properly before trying to make fun of it, my dearest repetetive friend.
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