[Sinuhe]

Synozeer, isn’t it time to explain the reasoning behind your decision to let Medievia back into the list? Several of us would like to know what lies behind it. Did you believe that people would forgive and forget over time? Is it really worth alienating the main part of your members and disrupting the discussion boards by letting these code violators in? What will come next? Will the critical voices be silenced or banned, if they don’t leave voluntarily?

I think most of us noted the renewed presence of Medievia with a raised eyebrow, but decided not to comment on it, because we knew well enough what would be the result of that comment. Perhaps some of us would even have been prepared to grudgingly accept their presence, if they at least had had the sense to keep a low profile. But that of course was not enough for the_logos. With his usual timing and tact, he decided to heartily welcome them to the list, and even if he pretends as usual that his main intention wasn’t to start a flame war, nobody with any brains believe that, given his past history. And the smug admittance of the theft from Soleil really didn’t make things any better. It reminded me of the old days, when her husband Vryce used to crow on TMC over all the new players that came to his mud after each flame war.

I doubt that nobody will ever forgive Vryce and Soleil for the original theft, especially with the attitude they have chosen to take. But here is a constructive suggestion, that could at least remedy some small part of it, and make them, if not liked and respected, at least tolerated members of the community.

I believe that there now is a commercial version of Diku, called Valhalla. If Medievia were to purchase this and put the credits on their log-in screen, and the public got some proof of the transaction, then at least a small part of the intellectual property and money they once stole would go back to the original creators.

So, how about it? It’s not like you couldn’t afford to pay for the licence, with all the money you made on the illegal use of it over the years.

[imported_Synozeer]

I allowed Medievia back on the list because they asked to be back on - that's it. I made my stand years ago, and none of the other big mud sites (ie. MudConnector), followed suite. I decided that while there would be many unhappy people, the additional traffic Medievia would send would help all muds participating on the list. The money this site makes is inconsequential to me, so greed is not a motivation. I haven't raised advertising prices on this site in several years. If I was out for the money, you'd be seeing constant increases.

I don't want to be judge and jury. If I were, then I might have to decide on removing muds that are violating intellectual property laws too. In the past, I've had this come up, but ignored them. But I wonder, where do I draw the line? Should I begin doing that too? I don't want to be a hypocrite, and I don't want to be put into that situation.

As far as the state of the forums, yes, I have certainly been lacking in my duties, and for that I apologize. I've always liked to play a passive moderation roles and step in only when things really get out of hand. BTW, I've done more than just those 2 "big" moderation acts - most are behind the scenes where I handle it discreetly.

Unfortunately, I'm also pretty busy. I run 10+ websites (including another forum), work a full time job and just had a baby, so it's been rough. I do have moderators assigned to the forums, but many of them don't frequent here often enough.

How's this - I'm willing to take on active moderators again for the various forums of which the moderators are not active and seen. If you're interested in moderating, you can email me via the forum your qualifications, what forums you'd want to moderate (more is better so I can choose incase someone else picked one you wanted). I'm looking for people who will not let emotion or grudges decide how they moderate, will take an active role in keeping discussion going in their particular forum, and of course, keeping people in line. This won't be a thankless job - I'll come up with some sort of perks for those who do this. How's that sound?

Adam

[Estarra]

When we opened the Lusternia forums, I had no idea we'd average 5000+ posts per week (yes, week) and, having never moderated forums before in my life, quickly learned the demands placed upon forum managers. Thus, I can certainly sympathize with you! Anyway, best of luck in finding moderators and congratulations on the baby!

[Angie]

Thanks for the reply, Adam, and congratulations on the baby. :)

I know moderating a board is hard work. I'd be willing to help, but I feel I no longer have any idea what's acceptable behaviour on this forum... Is bumping promotion threads with nonsensical replies acceptable? Spamming discussions off the front page with silly cutesy chatter? Flaunting unethical behaviour or dropping flame baits?

All in all, I don't think I'd make a very good TMS moderator. But I wish you good luck.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (Synozeer @ May 10 2005,10:43) If I were, then I might have to decide on removing muds that are violating intellectual property laws too.

I am immensely glad to see that you're willing to provide a consistent environment rather than singling out a particular mud. Thank you. It benefits us all.

--matt

[KaVir]

Originally Posted by (the_logos @ May 10 2005,23:20) I am immensely glad to see that you're willing to provide a consistent environment rather than singling out a particular mud. Thank you. It benefits us all.

Absolutely rubbish - there's nothing even remotely similar between a fan fiction mud which is tolerated by the copyright holders and a mud like Medievia which rips off the hard work of people who have contributed to the mud community (and then boasts about it).

What next? Allow muds that encourage pedophilia, perhaps?

[Kopribear]

KaVir, yet again you're being rather extreme. Why are you comparing something like pedophilia to a MUD? For goodness sake, it's just a game! Going over the top like that only reinforces the idea being presented that you're blowing a situation way out of proportion. I'm not saying that you are, nor am I saying that you aren't, I'm simply saying that that is the image you're portraying to the people who are continuously arguing with you.

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (KaVir @ May 10 2005,17:44) Absolutely rubbish - there's nothing even remotely similar between a fan fiction mud which is tolerated by the copyright holders and a mud like Medievia which rips off the hard work of people who have contributed to the mud community (and then boasts about it).

Yes yes, you've inflicted your point of view as if it's gospel on everybody for long enough. We all know how you feel and what your opinion on the issue is.

As I said, I'm glad Synozeer sees things sensibly. If you don't like it, I'm sure there's no reason for you to stay on these forums that support this mud that is, apparently, the devil to you.

--matt

[KaVir]

Originally Posted by (Kopribear @ May 10 2005,23:49) KaVir, yet again you're being rather extreme. Why are you comparing something like pedophilia to a MUD?

Why is the_logos comparing tolerated fan fiction with blatent IP theft?

[KaVir]

Originally Posted by (the_logos @ May 10 2005,23:56) If you don't like it, I'm sure there's no reason for you to stay on these forums that support this mud that is, apparently, the devil to you.

This coming from the person who outstayed his welcome years ago - do you honestly think you'd be tolerated here if it wasn't for the advertising money?

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (KaVir @ May 10 2005,18:00) Originally Posted by (Kopribear @ May 10 2005,23:49) KaVir, yet again you're being rather extreme. Why are you comparing something like pedophilia to a MUD? Why is the_logos comparing tolerated fan fiction with blatent IP theft?

Actually, it's Synozeer who is. I'm just backing him up. Funny how you don't attack him when he's the one that made the decision, but choose to attack me instead. Makes one wonder how much you actually care about the principle and how much is just a reason for you to attack people you don't like.

--matt

[KaVir]

Originally Posted by (the_logos @ May 11 2005,00:04) Originally Posted by (KaVir @ May 10 2005,18:00) Originally Posted by Kopribear,May 10 2005,23:49 KaVir, yet again you're being rather extreme. Why are you comparing something like pedophilia to a MUD? Why is the_logos comparing tolerated fan fiction with blatent IP theft? Actually, it's Synozeer who is. I'm just backing him up.

No, you're the one who's argued the 'fan fiction is worse than ripping the credits out of a Dikumud and claiming it as your own work' idiocy - you've done it repeatedly. Do you really want me to dig up the links?

Originally Posted by Funny how you don't attack him when he's the one that made the decision, but choose to attack me instead.

I disagree with Synozeer's decision, but I respect his right to take a neutral stance. You, on the other hand, have taken every opportunity to sing Medievia's praise and actively defend their IP theft.

[Kopribear]

KaVir, I personally have become sick of you blasting your hot air on every single board I've read... if it comes to lashing out at someone who provides just as much opinion as you, if not less, and is just as credible as you are, if not more, doesn't that make you a bit of a hypocrite? And tell me, do you disagree with everything Matt says, or is that just with everyone?

As for this:

Originally Posted by This coming from the person who outstayed his welcome years ago - do you honestly think you'd be tolerated here if it wasn't for the advertising money?

Do -you- honestly think you'd be tolerated here if the admins weren't more sensible than you? Go find a cause that wants you, because everything you stand up for seems to lose credibility after you've stated your opinion.

[KaVir]

Originally Posted by (Kopribear @ May 11 2005,00:14) KaVir, I personally have become sick of you blasting your hot air on every single board I've read...

But you're just a sock-puppet account created to back up your favourite mud - I wouldn't expect anything different. Would it make you feel better if I invited some of my players to say the same thing about the_logo's rantings? Do you think that would be constructive?

[Kopribear]

*roll* sock-puppet account? No, it was created because I wanted to join in on the forum discussions. And asking your players to come and join in would be about as constructive as your bickering is right now. I just wanted in on a little of the action, you amuse me.

[KaVir]

Originally Posted by (Kopribear @ May 11 2005,00:25) *roll* sock-puppet account? No, it was created because I wanted to join in on the forum discussions.

Do you really think that's worthwhile, considering you apparently don't have any opinions of your own? I mean, couldn't just you chalk yourself up as yet another anonymous lacky and save the rest of us from having to read your drivel?

[Kopribear]

The fact that you feel you need to defend yourself proves to me that you don't think that all of my posts are complete drivel. I do have opinions of my own, actually, and one of them is that you are a pompous, concieted jerk wasting away in front of your computer and verbally attacking anyone who happens to disagree with you for lack of an actual life. I haven't yet been proven wrong, and have gotten several PMs confirming this. At any rate, again you're allowing me to create digression. Shame.

[KaVir]

What was that? I thought I heard something...anyone else hear that?

[Kopribear]

jerk

[gth]

Well, Adam/Synozeer's statement has drawn the line in the sand - and I for one will not join him in welcoming a thieving criminal into our community.

the_logos may be a dork, but I can ignore his statements as easily as any other forum troll who craves attention (and in his case, the possible chance of the publicity too). His immediate posting in various threads the moment the 'Go Elsewhere Medthievia' thread was on the main TMS 'Recent Topic' list made it clear to me that he's quite savvy about what people see and the kind of publicity he prefers to manipulate and keep on the page that every voter sees whether they enter the forum area or not.

The Medthievia return however, I vehemently opposed and considered my expression of such a stance not as 'just another flame', but rather a very clear decision not to be simply a silent majority who are against Medthievia but never saying anything. As I have stated elsewhere, I prefer to get involved. Given Adam/Synozeer's statement of response on the topic, and since he's the person who runs TMS, I can no longer argue the point further - I only hope he's actually read the threads of the many who oppose what has been done, rather than simply ignore them as expected outcries of the few.

This forum account is now dead, and I'll no longer vote for my own MUD on TMS. I'll also be stating my reasons for doing such on our own forums, although I doubt my lack of voting will be noticed by the top 10 rankings.

[GuruPlayer]

Kopribear, I'm not sure what you expected, a warm and fuzzy hug??? You have the "Achaea" snot rag hagging on your board signature...

Before you scold all of us "flamers" for not holding what the_logos says as sacred, try doing a little research...be informed...go to Google enter "Medievil code theft", read what you find...maybe you'll understand why respected mud owners like Molly O'Hara are so disgusted! I realize this probably happened while you were in diapers. So do some research!

[Ilkidarios]

Why doesn't everyone just give up, Synozeer has made his decision. You're not going to convince him to make Medievia go away. Just learn to accept its being here and you'll be better off.

[Kopribear]

I'll pretend to be offended. No I didn't expect a warm fuzzy hug, goodness gracious if I cared what anyone thought I wouldn't be posting on these forums. Nor do I think Matt is capable of always being right, etc, I just think he's funny. I also find humorus the way everyone takes themselves so seriously... and the way that, no matter how many times it's stated that what they're complaining about isn't going to change by them complaining, they continue the complaints!
As for the 'Achaea snotrag' comment... to each his own, I suppose. I like Achaea. Apparently you don't. Omigosh, a difference of opinion... and I'm NOT starting a flamewar about it! *feels revolutionary*
Anyway... I'm learning as I read. I'm sorry that my comments were actually consequential... because if they weren't, they obviously wouldn't be replied to. Everyone else gets to state their opinion, I just wanted to join in on the action. Having fun meeting you all.

By the way, KaVir, the fanboy cartoon could easily apply to you.... perhaps even moreso because I'm not a boy. ^_^

xoxoxo
Kopri

[Ilkidarios]

Originally Posted by (KaVir @ May 10 2005,18:43) What was that?  I thought I heard something...anyone else hear that?

Whoa, dude, I just spent about a half an hour looking through that list after you posted the link. That site is awesome!

[Kopribear]

*gigglefall* at least I'm not a member of a cult of cyber sisters...

[Ilkidarios]

Hey look, it's a site about Logos.
(no I'm not serious...)

[GuruPlayer]

OOOOHHHH!!

Very scary, the_logos= Derek Smart v.2

[dragon master]

Originally Posted by (GuruPlayer @ May 10 2005,19:45) go to Google enter "Medievil code theft"

Or you could just google "Medievia", the third and fourth links should provide a good amount of information. Medievia has become so linked with code theft that saying "Medievia code theft" is quite redundant.

Anybody who actually supports Medievia in this argument is either morally impaired or ignorant of the truth. And this does not include Synozeer as he himself has stated that he doesn't like Medievia's code thievery but thought "the additional traffic Medievia would send would help all muds participating on the list".

[Hardestadt]

Well, at least some good came from this. Molly left! No more conspiracy theories!

-H

[the_logos]

Originally Posted by (KaVir @ May 10 2005,18:03) This coming from the person who outstayed his welcome years ago - do you honestly think you'd be tolerated here if it wasn't for the advertising money?

Don't forget contributes the most traffic of anyone to the site! =)

--matt