Top Mud Sites Forum Return to TopMudSites.com
Go Back   Top Mud Sites Forum > MUD Players and General Discussion > Tavern of the Blue Hand
Click here to Register

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-07-2005, 06:47 AM   #1
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,232
the_logos will become famous soon enough
I just wanted to say that it's nice to see TMS growing with the addition of another major MUD - Medievia - to the list. The bigger MUDs bring a comparatively large # of users to the site via the voting mechanism, benefiting everyone.

Welcome!

--matt
the_logos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 06:51 AM   #2
Angie
Member
 
Angie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Prague
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 133
Angie is on a distinguished road
Congrats on starting another flame thread, Matt. WTG.
Angie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 06:53 AM   #3
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,232
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Angie @ May 07 2005,07:51)
Congrats on starting another flame thread, Matt. WTG.
Oh **** off.

It's called "Professional courtesy." The only people who will object are the ones that lack it.

--matt
the_logos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 06:57 AM   #4
Soleil
Member
 
Soleil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 147
Soleil is on a distinguished road
Arrow

Thanks for the warm welcome Matt.  We are very grateful to have the opportunity to once again be a part of Topmudsites.

We are back and spanning our "advertising" due to the release of Medievia V.  We will be posting on the promotion forums soon enough as soon as we are out of beta testing and the features are live full time!

Soleil
Soleil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 06:57 AM   #5
Angie
Member
 
Angie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Prague
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 133
Angie is on a distinguished road
Professional courtesy? My ass.

Medievia has been banned from the list, and for good reasons. Now that they've crawled back through the window, making a welcome post is asking for a flame war. No wonder most people here think you're an awful troll.
Angie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 06:59 AM   #6
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,232
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Soleil @ May 07 2005,07:57)
We are back and spanning our "advertising" due to the release of Medievia V.  We will be posting on the promotion forums soon enough as soon as we are out of beta testing and the features are live full time!

Soleil
Good stuff. Hope it all goes well!
--matt
the_logos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 07:00 AM   #7
KaVir
Legend
 
KaVir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 2,052
KaVir will become famous soon enoughKaVir will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ May 07 2005,13:53)
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Angie @ May 07 2005,07:51)
Congrats on starting another flame thread, Matt. WTG.
Oh **** off.

It's called "Professional courtesy." The only people who will object are the ones that lack it.

--matt
Coming from the person who once tried to collect money to sue Medievia, I find it extremely two-faced, and completely unsurprising.

"Professional courtesy"? Yes, I can see you've got a lot in common.
KaVir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 07:06 AM   #8
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,232
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (KaVir @ May 07 2005,08:00)
Coming from the person who once tried to collect money to sue Medievia, I find it extremely two-faced, and completely unsurprising.

"Professional courtesy"?  Yes, I can see you've got a lot in common.
I realize the concept of evolving your opinion over time is foreign to you, but don't tar me with that brush. I based that proposed action on your own opinions, which was a mistake and for which I have already apologized and recanted.

--matt
the_logos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 07:08 AM   #9
KaVir
Legend
 
KaVir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 2,052
KaVir will become famous soon enoughKaVir will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ May 07 2005,14:06)
I realize the concept of evolving your opinion over time is foreign to you, but don't tar me with that brush. I based that proposed action on your own opinions, which was a mistake and for which I have already apologized and recanted.
Where?  Cite, please.  The last time I've seen you post on this matter, all you said was "There seems no doubt that Medievia is violating the license. They may or may not be violating the profit part of the license (we have no way of knowing whether they are showing a profit or not) but they certainly do seem to be violating the bits involving proper credit."

Are you saying you no longer believe they don't give credit?
KaVir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 11:56 AM   #10
Ytrewtsu
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 68
Ytrewtsu is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ May 07 2005,04:53)
Oh **** off.

It's called "Professional courtesy." The only people who will object are the ones that lack it.
Since when is that statement even remotely professional? If you were professional, you would extend that professionalism to everything and every contact you make in the community. I personally have no objection to your welcome but you are not qualified to judge professionalism judging by your statement.
Ytrewtsu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 12:31 PM   #11
Valg
Moderator
 
Valg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: Carrion Fields
Posts: 643
Valg will become famous soon enough
Professional courtesy would include not stealing. Medievia has earned the contempt they have received, and will continue to receive.

In any event, having the_logos explain professional courtesy is like having R. Kelly explain dating etiquette.
Valg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 04:45 PM   #12
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,232
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Professional courtesy gets extended to those who act like professionals, not bitter kids. I'm not interested in extending it to the handful of TMS people who do nothing but flame others. Look at the content of the post that started this thread. It was a genuine welcome to a major text MUD. That some felt the need to attack me for posting it is, in and of itself, indicative of the fact that "professional" doesn't apply to said people.

Anyway, once again, welcome, Medievia, and take comfort in the fact that your detractors are both irrelevant and impotent to do -anything- but gnash their teeth and stomp their feet. And props to Synozeer as well, for ignoring those who will complain about him doing the right thing by allowing Medievia back on the list.

Nothing else to say on this matter really.

--matt
the_logos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 05:48 PM   #13
KaVir
Legend
 
KaVir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Name: Richard
Home MUD: God Wars II
Posts: 2,052
KaVir will become famous soon enoughKaVir will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ May 07 2005,23:45)
Look at the content of the post that started this thread. It was a genuine welcome to a major text MUD.
The original post was a blatent attempt at starting yet another flame war - something the majority of your posts seem to be aimed towards causing.

Or are you honestly claiming to be so naive that you didn't know exactly what sort of response you'd get for welcoming the mud which is used as the example in almost every discussion about licence violation - a mud which caused so many flame wars that it eventually resulted in people putting together webpages with the facts to stop people repeating the same arguments every 6 months - a mud that even you admit is violating the Diku licence?
KaVir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 05:55 PM   #14
Yui Unifex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 323
Yui Unifex is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Yui Unifex Send a message via AIM to Yui Unifex
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ May 07 2005,17:45)
Professional courtesy gets extended to those who act like professionals, not bitter kids.
So you think violating contractual obligations is a professional act? Amazing.
Yui Unifex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 09:40 PM   #15
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,232
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Or are you honestly claiming to be so naive that you didn't know exactly what sort of response you'd get for welcoming the mud which is used as the example in almost every discussion about licence violation
Of course I knew you and your ilk would start flaming for it. But so what? Why should I let a handful of angry people determine what I will and will not do when none of those people matter or have even an iota of power to change my course (or Medievia's course, for that matter) of action?

I mean, if Batmud (another major mud) suddenly started participating in the rankings, I'd have posted a similar congratulations, regardless of whether they were abusing IP or not (they had a Little Mermaid area there when I last played, for instance). TMS has lots of MUDs that are engaging in various IP violations and there's no policy on TMS that prohibits those MUDs from being listed.

If someone threw a hissy fit everytime someone mentioned object oriented code, what would be the reasonable course of action? To ignore the people throwing a hissy fit and talk about it anyway, or to let the fit-throwers implicitly censor what gets talked about just because they scream and whine a lot? The right answer, incidentally, is the former.

--matt
the_logos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 09:41 PM   #16
tehScarecrow
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 66
tehScarecrow is on a distinguished road
Good luck Medievia!
tehScarecrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 09:42 PM   #17
the_logos
Moderator
 
the_logos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,232
the_logos will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Yui Unifex @ May 07 2005,18:55)
Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ May 07 2005,17:45)
Professional courtesy gets extended to those who act like professionals, not bitter kids.
So you think violating contractual obligations is a professional act?  Amazing.
Well, I'll tell you what ISN'T a professional act, at least: slandering people with absolutely no evidence beyond hearsay.

--matt
the_logos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 09:49 PM   #18
tehScarecrow
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 66
tehScarecrow is on a distinguished road
Ok, I'm not fully aware of the story behind Medievia, so if anyone wants to message it to me that would be appreciated.

What I do know is they've been around for like 14 years and DiKu is maybe 10% or less of their code at this point, and no one has done anything legally against them. So I'm really not seeing what the big deal is.
tehScarecrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 10:23 PM   #19
Jazuela
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New England
Posts: 821
Jazuela will become famous soon enoughJazuela will become famous soon enough
It's kinda like this:

You open a new fast food restaurant. You used to be the burger flipper for McDonald's, and as such, had all the exact recipes for each piece of food made, including their secret special sauce.

You also went to their burger flipping school and now know the secrets to their successful marketing strategies.

So you open up your new restaurant, rename everything using the same recipes..add a pinch of salt to everything, and call it "unique." Then you use the McDonald's strategies, rewriting each sentence by adding a single extra comma, and call it trademarked information.

And nowhere..not anywhere at all - do you even mention that McDonalds was the source of your genius.

Legal or not, it's unethical, unpleasant, and causes all the OTHER fast food joints to hire only family members, who have to recite a vow of secrecy upon penalty of death if they get caught giving the secret info to outsiders. The entire fast food industry suffers as a result, because no one is sharing information, no one is networking to improve customer service, or marketing, or quality of food.

This is what Medievia has done to the mud community. Because of them, several people who've developed new code bases have refused to make them open source, as has been the custom in the past. There are many new code bases, some of which are innovative and can do wonders for the community, but because Medievia used DIKU without its developers permission, without giving the developers credit, and then profited off it - clearly against the license they agreed to abide by, no one wants to trust the public to their own code bases anymore.

With good reason too. The world beyond the mud community doesn't really understand about muds enough to handle a court situation. Not to mention that DIKU was developed in one part of the world and the violator is in another part of the world, so the logistics involved in a lawsuit are pretty much - unviable.

So Medievia gets to continue doing what they're doing, and the entire community gets to continue suffering as a result. Using "only" 10% of the code is like saying a 2-month-pregnant woman is only 2/9 pregnant. You can't "slightly" steal something. Either you stole it or you didn't. Medievia did. Period.
Jazuela is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2005, 11:45 PM   #20
Yui Unifex
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 323
Yui Unifex is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Yui Unifex Send a message via AIM to Yui Unifex
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ May 07 2005,22:42)
Well, I'll tell you what ISN'T a professional act, at least: slandering people with absolutely no evidence beyond hearsay.

--matt
You are just as aware as everyone else on the facts[1] surrounding their violations. We know you have a short fuse, but I doubt even you would be pushed to sue based on hearsay. Your attempt to paint their actions as "professional" is an extreme insult to real professionals everywhere.

[1] http://www.game.org/med/
Yui Unifex is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools


Welcome, Medievia - Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Medievia V Soleil Advertising for Players 8 07-03-2006 12:12 PM
medievia gone? nass Tavern of the Blue Hand 36 01-08-2006 09:59 PM
New Changes to Medievia! Soleil Advertising for Players 4 10-09-2005 12:44 PM
Medievia V is here! Soleil Advertising for Players 0 06-28-2005 04:29 PM
Medievia Anzerion Advertising for Players 60 05-12-2005 08:10 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.0.0
Style based on a design by Essilor
Copyright Top Mud Sites.com 2014