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This is a discussion on "Moderation" in the Top Mud Sites Tavern of the Blue Hand forum : The only way I can really know if our moderation is 'fair', 'appropriate', 'just right', 'heavy handed' or whatever is to experience it. Make me a mod. You'll solve the problem of me being a rebel (since I'll be inside the walls) and you'll get to feel first hand what moderation is like, since I'll be every bit as consistent with you as your mods have been with me. -Crat... |
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#31 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 153
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Re: Moderation
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(since I'll be inside the walls) and you'll get to feel first hand what moderation is like, since I'll be every bit as consistent with you as your mods have been with me. -Crat |
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#32 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 130
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Re: Moderation
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The only thing that is required is for moderators to not delete the steady stream of spam and nonsense I spit forth until it has scrolled off of the last page. And given how everyone here claims to be considerate and respectful, that seems like a small favor to ask for. Ignorance is bliss. |
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#33 | |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: United Socialist States of America
Home MUD: Alsherok
Posts: 169
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Re: Moderation
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A private entity, like TMS, or say... your employer, can restrict what you say, when you say it, who you say it to, and take action to punish you if you violate the rules. Your recourse? In TMS's case, PM the moderator of the forum or the board admins and make your case. In your employer's case, hire a civil attorney and file suit. At least arguing your case with TMS is free ![]() |
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#34 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 153
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Re: Moderation
Got my second vague "warning" in a private message today.
Since a warning implies consequences, I can only assume I'm being threatened with banishment. That would be some sad stuff right there, if "patience" were asked of users but I got kicked for insufficient piety. -Crat http://lpmuds.net/banned_crat.jpg |
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#35 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New England
Posts: 610
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Re: Moderation
See it's like this, craytus. Lasher runs this joint. He gets to make the rules. He also gets to break them if he wants to. He can post, in his own thread, "You all, personally and intimately, suck. And yes I mean you." And he can toggle his thread so no one can respond. He can siteban anyone who opens their own thread to respond. He can shut the whole damned site down if he gets too many people to respond, and he can remove the whole forum, and leave only a banner on the main webpage, reading, in enormous bold, italicized, underlined red letters, "You all, personally and intimately, suck. And yes I mean you."
Is it being a hypocrite? Nope. It's being "the guy who runs the joint." I run my own household. Therefore, I get to make the rules, and I can break them whenever I damned well feel like it, and if you don't like it, you're welcome to get your shrimp scampi for supper elsewhere. I'm not even intending to imply that Lasher is breaking any of the rules; because a little off-topic banter that is appreciated by EVERYONE EXCEPT FOR YOU is fine and dandy as far as I'm concerned. But again, it isn't my place to decide. Because...I don't run the joint. I'm just a visitor. And if I ever get tired of visiting, I'll take my ball and go home like a good little girl. I suggest you do the same, instead of working yourself up to an aneurism over it. |
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#36 | ||
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 153
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Re: Moderation
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this to me, I get the feeling that you guys think Lasher is in charge around here and gets to decide how the place is run. I'd like you to consider that I probably know that, and that this point is not in debate. Perhaps we can, you know, get past it. Quote:
to Lasher's tangent. I was pointing out that he is presumed to have that liberty, while am not. If we agree that I know Lasher is in charge, and we can accept that I'm not against the natural flow of threads tangenting on occasion, then I guess it sounds like you think I should just shut up. I don't know how many people you speak for. Let's assume you speak for everyone, and the consensus is that I should really just shut up. I guess we can expect the axe to fall soon, then. On the other hand, suppose there are other people who have received secret warnings, suppose there are those who don't mind debating these issues but don't dare incur the enmity of the admins? I guess they're doing what they should, too, and just shutting up about it. If that's the kind of forum TMS is to be, then so be it. I'll keep getting told by folks like you to keep my place, I'll keep getting threats from mods to mind my manners, and eventually I'll just get kicked as being too troublesome, and the sun will rise the next day and the birds will sing. So just hang in there, Jazuela. And if it's not too much to ask, please spell my name correctly. -Cratylus http://lpmuds.net/banned_crat.jpg |
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#37 |
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: North Carolina
Home MUD: OtherSpace
Home MUD: Chiaroscuro
Home MUD: Necromundus
Posts: 1,361
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Re: Moderation
Crat, you're not helping your position at all. The moderators are trying to handle this with you via private messages. If you insist on trying to use that as fodder for continued griping about moderation of the forums, it's just going to make matters worse for you - and implying that The Man is out to get you isn't helping, either.
I don't think the warnings are vague at all, and neither are the consequences. No one wants to see you gone - you've been a valuable contributor here. But we do have to play by Lasher's rules. |
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#38 | ||||
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 153
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Re: Moderation
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that the moderation is done with the best intentions. However, I do not know who is in charge of what, and who has what authority. For all I know, someone that is not Lasher sending me private warnings is overstepping their authority. I feel more comfortable being chastised in public, where the cleansing scrutiny of the community can discern how just my castigation is. Quote:
an outright ban. Keep in mind I'm not trying to get deleted. I'm not trying to get banned. I'm speaking my mind in good faith and have been doing so in keeping with what my understanding of the mission of the site is/was. Now that the rules are less unwritten, perhaps there is hope for clearer understandings, but I doubt there will be fewer clashes, because I as a person of good will, and the moderators as people of good will, differ on the usefulness and appropriateness of moderation of some of my posts or parts thereof. It's an honest disagreement, not a defiant manifesto. And as such, I don't see it being resolved, because I don't have anything to gain by compromising my position that the moderation around here has been out of hand, and I'm just not inclined to let it slide if it continues to be so. So I don't see how it gets worse. Looks like I'm on a rocket sled to bantown, the only question is when. Quote:
Sometimes I amuse myself with fiery rhetoric. We arehaving fun here, after all, or is this site supposed to be Serious Business? Quote:
get sick of me. I'm sorry for that, because I enjoy participating here. I think it's right of me to speak my mind on these points, and I think it's ok that I not go gently into that good night. You guys will have to decide what kind of site to be. -Crat http://lpmuds.net/banned_crat.jpg |
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#39 |
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: North Carolina
Home MUD: OtherSpace
Home MUD: Chiaroscuro
Home MUD: Necromundus
Posts: 1,361
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Re: Moderation
While you might prefer public castigation (despite suggesting it was wrong for people to do that to ME in the n00biest n00b thread), the new approach of the moderation team is to try to handle these differences privately rather than having it devolve into a battle of egos.
Lasher can speak for himself on the matter of our authority, but I can assure you that whoever contacted you earlier was doing so with Lasher's full knowledge and consent. |
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#40 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 153
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Re: Moderation
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Was it deleted? I do not remember making it. Please clarify. -Crat http://lpmuds.net/banned_crat.jpg |
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#41 | ||
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 130
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Re: Moderation
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Then again, I guess it's much like the situation in Turkey, where separation between state and church is more of a cultural grown tradition long ago installed by a great man, rather than the actual desire of the population at large. TMS is a community, and being overwhelming American, would supposedly reflect US culture. But instead of copying the freedoms offered by their nation's constitution Americans copy the policies of the mass media they've been indoctrinated by since their childhood. Despite what your subconscious might believe, words do not cause harm, cannot give you HIV, nor cause testicular cancer. Fortunately that goes both ways, and as I already, more or less, pointed out the actions of the moderators do not cause harm either. |
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#42 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2002
Home MUD: Carrion Fields
Posts: 642
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Re: Moderation
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As a trivial example, if someone was spamming the threads with hundreds of Viagra ads per hour, it would be beneficial to the conversation to remove that person. That decision has nothing to do with 'free speech', or fear that the ads will harm viewers. It's merely a method to elevate signal-to-noise, and give the site better utility to its readers. |
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#43 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 130
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Re: Moderation
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As a more practical example I could point out that some of the most knowledgeable users aren't the most well behaved users either. The idea seems to be that by pruning the rude, impolite, inconsiderate, and otherwise obstructive users, some kind of Utopian community can be created. While I don't disagree that this is in theory possible, I doubt the selection criteria that are being used. Not to mention that both the argumentation and scientific proof for the claims are lacking. The entire thing is very pseudo-scientific and borderline psychotic. Looking at it from a historical perspective dictatorships rarely work, especially when the big dictators assigns little dictator to share the load of oppressing the masses. I must add that having grown up in a relatively free and democratic society it remains extremely exciting and refreshing to experience primitive human behavior carried out with great dedication and vigor in the virtual flesh. |
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#44 | |
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: United Socialist States of America
Home MUD: Alsherok
Posts: 169
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Re: Moderation
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#45 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Name: NewWorlds
Home MUD: New Worlds
Posts: 437
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Re: Moderation
You guys calm down, and Crat, please respect the moderators, they are just trying to do their job. As flor Lasher posting we all suck and can't touch this, well, he's already said he wants to be subjected to moderators as well if needed.
I think that we miss the point again and everyone is getting angry about unfair or seemingly unfair deletions of posts. Forums have to be moderated and be done so without much arbitration or it becomes chaos and petty. |
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#46 |
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Home MUD: Lost Souls
Posts: 128
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#47 | |
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Mill Valley, California
Posts: 2,119
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Re: Moderation
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Go find me a popular internet forum (say, one that averages over 200 simultaneous users) that isn't moderated. I bet you can't do it. Even if you happened to find the one odd example of a popular forum that isn't moderated, I will find 10 that are for everyone you find that isn't. Are they "not working?" If not, whatever standard you are employing for "not working" is about as relevant as using the number of sheep-shearing tools a gas station has as the metric for deciding that a convenience store "works." From a historical perspective, in other words, the idea that these "dictatorships" (as you call them) rarely work is simply insupportable when it comes to internet forums, which is what we're talking about. --matt |
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