[ven]

A friend and I are building a new Mac mud in Cocoa programming language. I was wondering how many MUDders have Macs and would use them for a graphical mud? We both learned MUDs from when we both ran Windows 10 years ago but I am not sure how large the migrated population is. Any ideas?

[ShadowsDawn]

Are you meaning a MUD client for Macs? If so, I'd likely check it out. Unfortunately there's no Mac MUD clients that I exceptionally like. My fallback for on Mac is either a VM session with windows, or running tintin++.

[ven]

No, sorry I didn't clarify. I meant a graphical mud for Mac OSX. I've never gone around asking people what they are running but back in the day, most users were on Windows. Trying to get an idea how many of us who were once telnet players might be into playing a mac-only graphical mud (non-telnet).

[jackal59mo2]

Originally Posted by ven No, sorry I didn't clarify. I meant a graphical mud for Mac OSX. I've never gone around asking people what they are running but back in the day, most users were on Windows. Trying to get an idea how many of us who were once telnet players might be into playing a mac-only graphical mud (non-telnet).

I'm having difficulty understanding how making a platform-specific game is a good idea. But, to answer, I use a Mac, but, because I play on MUDs so that I don't have to deal with graphics, I would not be interested.

[ven]

Originally Posted by jackal59mo2 because I play on MUDs so that I don't have to deal with graphics, I would not be interested.

What we've done is created a mac-specific app, with the map of the world as a graphic (including player movement), but everything else in text as usual. Nothing graphically intense, actually quite the opposite. Check out the site in the sig for screens and tell me if that has appeal, even if perhaps limited?

[Zivilyn]

Looks great too Ven, it reminds me of like the old Ultima (with better graphics heh). But still 'mud' just with a visual representation of where they are. Does it do things like hide the other mobs if they're around the corner?
Regardless, it looks really cool man, could be a bridge for those who don't 'mud' as it's graphic enough for them to follow as they're introduced to reading the scrolling text of a mud to the left.

[ven]

Originally Posted by Zivilyn Looks great too Ven, it reminds me of like the old Ultima (with better graphics heh). But still 'mud' just with a visual representation of where they are. Does it do things like hide the other mobs if they're around the corner? Regardless, it looks really cool man, could be a bridge for those who don't 'mud' as it's graphic enough for them to follow as they're introduced to reading the scrolling text of a mud to the left.

Yes we love old Ultima, and IV or V would be close to where we were. Thinking about it now, when MMOs frist starting going graphic, I always wondered why more didn't invoke the simplicity of Ultima and instead went right to first person shooter style. We also love nethack and of course are old school hard core mudders from Circle/Diku.

We haven't finalized the layout of the text controls, but the map will generally be the same size. There isn't any "line of sight" code into the game, but for now the idea of an aggressive mob being five squares away unseen (off the map) is close enough. Of course mobs can still be hidden with a hidden flag and LOS is a great idea to have for future development (we've just finished shops so we're still in alpha).

Thanks for the kind words and thoughts Ziv.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by ven Yes we love old Ultima, and IV or V would be close to where we were. Thinking about it now, when MMOs frist starting going graphic, I always wondered why more didn't invoke the simplicity of Ultima and instead went right to first person shooter style.

Ultima V was actually First Person 3D and the ultima team built the first 3D engine (taken subsequently by Doom which made it popular. Unfortunately Ultima V never really caught on). The reason behind First Person 3D in MMO's was the ease of implementation of the 3D Engine which by then was basically downloadable with many versions available. Using high end rendering software it is monumentally easier to auto code backgrounds and items than to do so in Bird's Eye overthehead view.

Either way, I too loved all the Ultima versions up until Version 7+ as they became too complex to enjoy.

(Disclaimer: this info is personal experience in coding 3d graphic games and engines on 486 hardware vs. the bs found on Wikipedia).

[ven]

Originally Posted by Newworlds The reason behind First Person 3D in MMO's was the ease of implementation of the 3D Engine which by then was basically downloadable with many versions available. Using high end rendering software it is monumentally easier to auto code backgrounds and items than to do so in Bird's Eye overthehead view.

Having never done very much with graphics in gaming I find this very interesting. So is this an x86 issue that still exists or is there more of an envelope now for creating interesting birds-eye landscapes and angles? I notice in a number of games in the past 3-5 years, changing your camera angle doesn't seem to present a challenge as opposed to early games.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by ven Having never done very much with graphics in gaming I find this very interesting. So is this an x86 issue that still exists or is there more of an envelope now for creating interesting birds-eye landscapes and angles? I notice in a number of games in the past 3-5 years, changing your camera angle doesn't seem to present a challenge as opposed to early games.

This limit no longer exists (with regard to 3d camera angles) but not because of x86, but because of the newer modeling and rendering engines and the latest versions of Windows and hardware drivers. The beauty of Windows (and its limitations) have been its proliferation of a multitude of drivers and the ability for almost everything to be plug and play. The trouble is that it makes for a slower system.

As for Bird's Eye View. The reasons this has become increasingly more utilized is that it the models used are now far spread and easy to get. In other words, there are places you can buy everything you need for mapping, objects, etc. Generic of course but it helps to get things started. And don't start asking me where. These boxed sets of generic images are costly. Only a bonafide company would be able to afford it if making a real Graphical MUD for profit.

I could go on for pages about the way modeling and rendering and dynamic graphic arrays have changed over the years, but hell, I'd rather talk about why Text MUD's rock so much more!