[misao]

When looking for RPI MUDs, I seem to find them divided into 2 genres:

MUDs which claim to be RPI, but really all that means to them is that IC is enforced in IC rooms. I don't know about the technicality of things, but RPI to me personally means good poses with sufficient detail (like a story), and good fleshing-out of character concepts and traits. I really cannot feel immersed in RP in which the poses are as such:

xxx says, "Hi"
xxx smiles
yyy says "Hi xxx!"
yyy grins

Etc. There is no fleshing out of how a character acts, etc, in poses, because, well, it's kinda hard to do so when practically everyone on earth (or whatever world you're based in) would smile at one time or another.

Also, there seems to be a high emphasis on combat/questing/levelling in such MUDs. I don't play MUDs to fight, quest, or level. I would much rather play graphical-based games if I wish to do such.




On the other hand...

I have found MUSHes in which RP, or writing a story rather, really IS everything. (admittedly, the majority of such MUSHes are adult-based MUSHes *blush*) To the extent where there are virtually no code limitations; you pose out everything and if your fireball hits someone, there will be no coded changes in his character as well.

Those MUSHes have a culture in which detailed poses are the norm... and while this is good, it can be brought to an extreme sometimes. Elitist behaviour is often cultivated in which players say, "I refuse to RP with anyone who poses in less than 8 lines!"

Another drawback is that since most RP in such MUSHes occurs in private (because it's really hard to coordinate group RP when everyone poses 8 lines and takes 10 minutes to do so!), and that, combined with the lack of code, causes there to be no... well... society-based RP. As in, people RP in isolated 'scenes', which has no effect on the society in general, because there was no society to speak of in the first place, since everyone huddles in rooms with one other person. Okay, fine, so it's an adult MUSH.




I really wish to find a combination of the two, a midway point. A MUD in which there is SOME detail of posing (like, 'xxx exclaims, "Hello, dear!" with a slightly lopsided grin on his face'), and pure emphasis on RPing out your character's development and its role in a closeknit society without questing/levelling/killing mobs. But I don't want to hole up in a room taking 10 minutes per 8-line pose with one other person, which has no effect on the society around me, either. It's turning out to be far more difficult to find than I imagined.

I have found The Inquisition which I enjoy greatly, but it does have the drawback of a rather small playerbase, no new players, and some old players which tend not to be very enthusiastic to RP much because, well, who can blame them if they've been there for 5 years? I wouldn't be very enthusiastic either.

Skimmed through a few others til I found New Worlds, and gave that a good shot as well. The constant two-word poses put me off, though. I would probably give Harshlands a go, too, when I have time.



Any recommendations? Bear in mind, all the above are just my personal preferences and opinions, nothing more.

[WarHound]

Armageddon?

Arm has a detailed emoting system that allows alot of detail in your RPing without requiring or encouraging MASSIVE emotes.

There is alot of combat, but it is by no means required and I've seen literally hundreds of characters get by without ever sparring or fighting one single 'beast'.

Honorable mention goes to Harshlands, the setting of which I -LOVE-, though I've not gotten to enjoy the game as much as I would have liked to.

[Orrin]

If you want a traditional RPI then your choices are quite limited. There's a list of them in a recent thread here and there's not that many. However it sounds like what you're looking for isn't necessarily what most people define strictly as an RPI so you might want to broaden your search to other roleplay enforced MUDs.

It's tough to find a game you enjoy with the style of RP that you want and I'd say almost impossible to find one where all the players have the same attitude as you. Whatever the style of the game there will always be different approaches to roleplaying among the playerbase.

As an example, on my game Maiden Desmodus we have a few players who really enjoy detailed roleplaying of the type you describe, but from the other things you've said it doesn't sound like our game is really what you want.

[misao]

Originally Posted by Orrin If you want a traditional RPI then your choices are quite limited. There's a list of them in a recent thread here and there's not that many. However it sounds like what you're looking for isn't necessarily what most people define strictly as an RPI so you might want to broaden your search to other roleplay enforced MUDs. It's tough to find a game you enjoy with the style of RP that you want and I'd say almost impossible to find one where all the players have the same attitude as you. Whatever the style of the game there will always be different approaches to roleplaying among the playerbase. As an example, on my game Maiden Desmodus we have a few players who really enjoy detailed roleplaying of the type you describe, but from the other things you've said it doesn't sound like our game is really what you want.

Yes, I agree that it doesn't comply with the strict definition of RPI. If it had, I probably would not have needed to post here to ask.

I also agree that there will be different approaches to RP, but there tends to be a 'culture' in most MUDs that I have been in. People who don't fit in that culture generally don't last long.

Your game looks lovely, but it does seem far too combat-based for my liking.

Originally Posted by WarHound Armageddon? Arm has a detailed emoting system that allows alot of detail in your RPing without requiring or encouraging MASSIVE emotes. There is alot of combat, but it is by no means required and I've seen literally hundreds of characters get by without ever sparring or fighting one single 'beast'. Honorable mention goes to Harshlands, the setting of which I -LOVE-, though I've not gotten to enjoy the game as much as I would have liked to.

Really, combat isn't required on Armageddon? Their site seemed to mention differently. I will give it a try, then.

[Orrin]

Your game looks lovely, but it does seem far too combat-based for my liking.

Yes I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to someone looking for a MUD with as little combat as possible. That said we do have players that don't really participate much in combat and prefer other pursuits. We have quite a detailed crafting system where almost every item in the game is player crafted, so in this sense there is no requirement to kill mobs for gold or loot. It's also possible to hire NPC guards to accompany you which would allow someone to gather materials for crafting or travel around without needing to fight themselves. We also have politics and player run organisations which again give a more social aspect to the game that doesn't involve combat.

I'm not trying to give you the hard sell by any means, just pointing out that things are not always as clear cut as they may appear.

[misao]

Thing is, I don't care about items, loot, material, etc.

I just want an immersive fantasy environment (preferably medieval-type) in which my character interacts with other characters (who are well-played and distinctively fleshed-out), and contributes to shape the society that he/she lives in.

I find that if the game itself emphasizes a lot on combat and things of the sort, people tend to focus on it too and even if I don't, the environment just isn't there.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by Orrin If you want a traditional RPI then your choices are quite limited...However it sounds like what you're looking for isn't necessarily what most people define strictly as an RPI...

I don't know Orrin. Saying what most people define as RPI is rebuffed to the extreme in this thread:

Guidelines for an RPI mud.

RPI is widely defined and arbitrary, so I think the poster here is well within the bounds of definition with their requirements.

Misao,

Thank you for trying NW-Ateraan. I can agree that while NW has many players that utilize standard emotes, many also engage in robust emoting as customized emotes, pmotes, omotes, rstatus, ostatus, and many other roleplay enhanced functionalities are there for this purpose. However, when you have 20 people in a tavern, speed and grace is of the essence and brevity is applauded. Slow, long roleplay is grand and found when players are in small groups, religious, political, entertainment, romantic, guild, or other events. I recall the other night NWA had fifty people in one room and players were asked to be still because of the sheer magnitude of spam created by even short emotes.

Not to get off track, I can recommend a few MUD's for you. I would not recommend Armeggedon as it is a very PK oriented game and death is second nature. As this is a permadeath game it can destroy good solid "story" roleplay that you seem to be after. Not to mention the emote system is mostly based on the following:

A short, stocky dwarf with curly hair and a scar on his chin and deep set dark brown eyes smiles at a thin athletic human girl with the long blond hair, trim legs and sparkling exotic hazel eyes who has a missing index finger on the left hand.

A long blond hair, trim legs and sparkling exotic hazel eyes who has a missing index finger on the left hand nods purposely at a short, stocky dwarf with curly hair and a scar on his chin and deep set dark brown eyes.

A short, stocky dwarf with curly hair and a scar on his chin and deep set dark brown eyes chuckles at a thin athletic human girl with the long blond hair, trim legs and sparkling exotic hazel eyes who has a missing index finger on the left hand.

After about twenty similar emotes you are practically praying for the simple: A dwarf waves at a human girl.

You might like Shadows of Isildur if you like skill based crafting and a Tolkien world. However, tedius crafting for hours to increase skill levels can be a downside.

You might want to try Materia Magica as it has a very robust crafting system and well developed world. The downside is that it lives in ASCII graphics that can be annoying at times.

Harshlands is also a choice. It has very fleshed out descriptions and roleplay is promoted. It is skillless and classless and the hugeness of the world vs. the playerbase might be an issue for you for interaction.

I wish you luck in your search!

[Delerak]

Shadows of Isildur hands down.

Whoever said Armageddon.. FAIL. Arm has the highest character turnover out of all the RPI's without a doubt. There are tons of pkillers just roaming around looking for a chance to kill other players. Granted that exists everywhere but in my personal experience, SOI has far less of this and they tend to gravitate towards more tavern-sitting, political roleplay, whereas -all- of the clans on Armageddon incorporate combat in some shape way or form. Whereas on SOI I can only think of a couple combat clans in Gondor.

[Delerak]

Originally Posted by Newworlds A short, stocky dwarf with curly hair and a scar on his chin and deep set dark brown eyes smiles at a thin athletic human girl with the long blond hair, trim legs and sparkling exotic hazel eyes who has a missing index finger on the left hand. A long blond hair, trim legs and sparkling exotic hazel eyes who has a missing index finger on the left hand nods purposely at a short, stocky dwarf with curly hair and a scar on his chin and deep set dark brown eyes. A short, stocky dwarf with curly hair and a scar on his chin and deep set dark brown eyes chuckles at a thin athletic human girl with the long blond hair, trim legs and sparkling exotic hazel eyes who has a missing index finger on the left hand. After about twenty similar emotes you are practically praying for the simple: A dwarf waves at a human girl.

This is not accurate. RPI muds do not let you have a short description that long at all. Arm limits their sdescs to 35 characters and I believe SOI is around 45. Either way. The emotes don't look like that. At best it would look something like this.

a short, stocky dwarf smiles at a thin, athletic human girl.

a thin, athletic human girl nods purposeufly to a short, stocky dwarf.

The point is that you can add as much flavor as you'd like to the emote. The sdesc isn't what makes the emote long, it's the writers flair or ability to do such. You can play an RPI and simply not emote and use only socials to interact with other players. Granted this won't get you much respect in my book but whatever.

[Orrin]

Originally Posted by Newworlds I don't know Orrin. Saying what most people define as RPI is rebuffed to the extreme in this thread: Guidelines for an RPI mud. RPI is widely defined and arbitrary, so I think the poster here is well within the bounds of definition with their requirements.

Notice I said strict definition of an RPI. Sure anyone can use the term to mean whatever the like, but that's not really the point. The term has historically been used to refer to a specific set of features found in the Harshlands mud and it's derivatives. If people want to use the term more widely that's fine by me as I have no claim on it, but that's what I mean when I talk about the strict definition of an RPI.

[Wik]

If you're willing to try sci-fi with a slight fantasy bent (we call ourselves space opera), I'd invite you to give OtherSpace a try.
While we do have 4-8 line poses (with a few players who do do more), at the same time, we have a coded skill system (using dice rolling, similar to tabletop games, if you've played any), and damage you do to someone will show up on their +sheet.
We try our darnedest not to be elitist, and while I can't vouch for every player, we don't condone that kind of thing on OtherSpace.
We are certainly not an adult game in the sense you're talking about (sex and violence happens, but more as a seasoning than as the main dish), and we do have an overall society. Almost all characters will interact with all other characters over their lifetime. Your actions can (and often do) affect the world at large, from sciency (a scientist with an anarchic streak released a quickly-spreading disease he created that just made you glow for 1-3 days, creating a pandemic of light), to compassionate (a totalitarian leader caused the slaughter of an entire planet, and players created a relief organization to provide aid to the survivors), to silly (a player salvaged a giant fan, and the game played kites for an afternoon).
Our playerbase hovers around 20-40, so there's almost always someone on to rp with.
We have no one who does two word poses.

If you're interested in a peek, look at :: Join The Saga :: Online Roleplaying Worlds ::, or telnet directly in at jointhesaga.com: 1790. I hope to see you there!

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by Orrin Notice I said strict definition of an RPI. Sure anyone can use the term to mean whatever the like, but that's not really the point. The term has historically been used to refer to a specific set of features found in the Harshlands mud and it's derivatives. If people want to use the term more widely that's fine by me as I have no claim on it, but that's what I mean when I talk about the strict definition of an RPI.

No. Wrong. Your historical reference is completely inaccurate. Just because a group attempted to seize the term Roleplay Intensive (RPI), does not make it a strict definition of RPI. You must have not read the link I gave you so I'll give it again:

Guidelines for an RPI mud.

Some of the key points are in post #142, #147, and #148.

For those who don't with to muddle through whopping 239 posts on this thread, the basic ending argument was that RPI is a poor term for a group of MUDs that really should have something akin to PK, Permadeath, Guildless, Classless, etc. This group still refuses to drop the term and they should, by taking up one of the suggested terms: ARP (armeggedon style Roleplay) HRP (Harshlands Roleplay). Using one of these terms (since those two games were the founding games of this group) would be much more accurate and definitive.

[Delerak]

Originally Posted by Newworlds No. Wrong. Your historical reference is completely inaccurate. Just because a group attempted to seize the term Roleplay Intensive (RPI), does not make it a strict definition of RPI. You must have not read the link I gave you so I'll give it again: Guidelines for an RPI mud. Some of the key points are in post #142, #147, and #148. For those who don't with to muddle through whopping 239 posts on this thread, the basic ending argument was that RPI is a poor term for a group of MUDs that really should have something akin to PK, Permadeath, Guildless, Classless, etc. This group still refuses to drop the term and they should, by taking up one of the suggested terms: ARP (armeggedon style Roleplay) HRP (Harshlands Roleplay). Using one of these terms (since those two games were the founding games of this group) would be much more accurate and definitive.

Don't even get me started. Just because we have similar coded features to Armageddon or Harshlands doesn't mean our roleplay is at all similar or comparable. The reason it's RPI isn't necessarily just the features. It's because the features allow for a more in-depth roleplaying experience, whereas MUDs that do not use the features listed in the thread will have shallow roleplay by the most basic definition of the word.

[misao]

Thanks for all the help, guys. Please, don't argue about RPI in this thread, it isn't what I intended at all. I don't quite care whether the type of MUD I like really is considered an RPI in technical terms or not. I just want to find it.

Newworlds, I didn't participate in much tavern RP during my stint there. I joined the Southlands because I loved the concept of it, and while I loved the concept even more during my few days as a slave, I really am pretty sure that almost everyone I saw during that time was like 'grins', 'waves', 'cheers'. Especially during code-based activities.

So what IS a harshlands-type MUD and a armageddon-type MUD? ^^;

I did find Shadows of Isildur in the listing when I searched, but I was hesitant to try it because I have virtually no knowledge of Tolkien, which I imagine would make it rather difficult.

As for OtherSpace, I might give it a try as well, although I generally tend to gravitate towards MUDs which involve mainly humanoids. Elves and the like are fine I suppose, but I really try to stay away from animals, reptiles, tentacles, aliens....

[Delerak]

Originally Posted by misao Thanks for all the help, guys. Please, don't argue about RPI in this thread, it isn't what I intended at all. I don't quite care whether the type of MUD I like really is considered an RPI in technical terms or not. I just want to find it. Newworlds, I didn't participate in much tavern RP during my stint there. I joined the Southlands because I loved the concept of it, and while I loved the concept even more during my few days as a slave, I really am pretty sure that almost everyone I saw during that time was like 'grins', 'waves', 'cheers'. Especially during code-based activities. So what IS a harshlands-type MUD and a armageddon-type MUD? ^^; I did find Shadows of Isildur in the listing when I searched, but I was hesitant to try it because I have virtually no knowledge of Tolkien, which I imagine would make it rather difficult. As for OtherSpace, I might give it a try as well, although I generally tend to gravitate towards MUDs which involve mainly humanoids. Elves and the like are fine I suppose, but I really try to stay away from animals, reptiles, tentacles, aliens....

Sorry Bub, it's just a heated topic. Read the thread that NW posted and you'll see why. Players who play RPI like myself, don't even consider other muds in the same league as far as the roleplay quality goes. RPI's like SOI and Arm bring far more immersion then 'normal' muds. Many consider that an elitist point of view, but whatever.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by misao Thanks for all the help, guys. Please, don't argue about RPI in this thread, it isn't what I intended at all. I don't quite care whether the type of MUD I like really is considered an RPI in technical terms or not. I just want to find it. I did find Shadows of Isildur in the listing when I searched, but I was hesitant to try it because I have virtually no knowledge of Tolkien, which I imagine would make it rather difficult. As for OtherSpace, I might give it a try as well, although I generally tend to gravitate towards MUDs which involve mainly humanoids. Elves and the like are fine I suppose, but I really try to stay away from animals, reptiles, tentacles, aliens....

I don't think you need any Tolkien knowledge to play Shadows, though it does help. Give Otherspace a try too.

If you end up not finding what you are looking for, come back to NWA and start in the North. You will get a more indepth feel for the game and then perhaps go back to the South. Try to get into the merchants guild or a religion. Who knows, you might find many players with your style of emoting and you might become a director and have a play in the grand theater where all you do is emote story lines with special rp commands and functions.

[misao]

Newworlds, I really did enjoy the South concept, and I think it's a nice change from the norm. I do not enjoy doing 'typical' stuff in MUDs, like working on a nice profession and joining a guild and doing normal stuff. My characters tend to be either underhanded criminals, underdog classes, or double-faced backstabbers. While I understand that it is indeed possible to do underhanded/different stuff in the North, I think I would enjoy the South life better. My grouses have nothing to do with spawning in the South rather than the North, unless people emote with radically different styles in the North, which I'm betting is not the case.

I'm currently awaiting email verification for SOI. Cross your fingers for me!

[Orrin]

Originally Posted by Newworlds No. Wrong.

No, no. You're wrong. So there.

Originally Posted by Newworlds You must have not read the link I gave you so I'll give it again:

It's impolite to assume that someone who disagrees with you simply hasn't read your argument.

Originally Posted by Newworlds For those who don't with to muddle through whopping 239 posts on this thread, the basic ending argument was that RPI is a poor term for a group of MUDs that really should have something akin to PK, Permadeath, Guildless, Classless, etc. This group still refuses to drop the term and they should, by taking up one of the suggested terms: ARP (armeggedon style Roleplay) HRP (Harshlands Roleplay). Using one of these terms (since those two games were the founding games of this group) would be much more accurate and definitive.

I get why you don't like the way the term RPI is applied to a small subset of roleplaying muds, I really do. There's an implication that only the features and tradition those RPI muds represent can produce a game with intensive roleplaying. I hear you. But that doesn't alter the fact that over the years in the mud community the term has been used to apply to that small subset of roleplaying muds.

If you want to apply the term to any game which features intensive roleplaying then be my guest, but please don't try to pretend that it doesn't apply the way I used it.

[misao]

Please, stop. I don't want my thread to turn out like the others did. That's why I made my title into something -without- the term RPI in it. Thank you.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by misao I'm currently awaiting email verification for SOI. Cross your fingers for me!

I'm not crossing my fingers because I know you will get verified. But I will cross my fingers for you that SOI becomes enjoyable and is fun for you!

[prof1515]

No. Wrong. Your historical reference is completely inaccurate. Just because a group attempted to seize the term Roleplay Intensive (RPI), does not make it a strict definition of RPI.

I'm afraid you're wrong. The historical origin of the term refers to the small group of games (Armageddon, Harshlands and then Forever's End) which shared, despite the first two having separate code development and origins, numerous similiarities which at the time were not present in any other MUDs.

The group that attempted to "seize" the term RPI was not a group by any definable measure since they're wide-ranging games: some role-play enforced, some not; some hybrid H&S, some strict role-play only; some MUSH; some are even pure PK MUDs! The term simply was abused by games which either did not understand what the term meant or chose to ignore that in order to capitalize on the association.

For those who don't with to muddle through whopping 239 posts on this thread, the basic ending argument was that RPI is a poor term for a group of MUDs that really should have something akin to PK, Permadeath, Guildless, Classless, etc.

That was not the conclusion to the discussion. The fact is that ANY term, including the term "MUD" is inaccurate in some regard or another. The term RPI was invented by and for a small group of that shared 19 characteristics. While these characteristics were never clearly defined (the people who created the term applied them to games that were similar; simply playing these games revealed the similarities), the meaning was clear. It was only later that I and some others attempted to define clearly what these characteristics were by examining the games to which the term originally applied and discerning those shared characteristics that those first three games possessed which were not common as a whole to any other games. Hence the list of 19 characterstics, some code and some policy.

This group still refuses to drop the term and they should....

Why? There's no reason. The term Role-Play Intensive or RPI was coined by these games to apply to their games because their games were role-play intensive. Other games which never met the characterisitcs of the RPI MUDs may have begun using the term but they're in error, not those which meet the original specifications.

...by taking up one of the suggested terms: ARP (armeggedon style Roleplay) HRP (Harshlands Roleplay).

Armageddon-type RPI and Harshlands-type RPI are two acceptable sub-categories of Role-Play Intensive (RPI) MUDs since both have independently-derived code yet conform to the same 19 characteristics. A third existing sub-category would be Southlands-type RPI as that's the third code lineage adhering to those characteristics. If one wanted to break down the sub-categories a bit more, the Harshlands-type RPI could be defined by the code: the original Harshlands, the FEM variant of the Harshlands code, the SoI RPI Engine, the Argila variant of the SoI RPI Engine and the RPI++ variant of the SoI RPI Engine. At present there are anywhere from one to three other RPI code projects in development (including one for my own game) which will if completed represent the fourth, fifth and sixth types of RPI MUDs.

Using one of these terms (since those two games were the founding games of this group) would be much more accurate and definitive.

There already is a term for these types of games: Role-Play Intensive (capitalized or abbreviated RPI).

To summarize the aforementioned discussion, there are lots of terms out there for text-based games featuring role-play: role-play, role-play enforced, role-play required, role-play mandatory, role-play encouraged, role-play focused (as used by the original poster in his title), role-play optional and role-play accepted. Role-Play Intensive MUDs are technically a type of role-play enforced/required/mandatory. But just because all RPI MUDs are role-play enforced does not mean all role-play enforced are RPI.

A simple comparison is the National Football League (NFL). All NFL teams are football teams but not all football teams are NFL teams. The Pittsburgh Steelers are a NFL team. If the Notre Dame Fighting Irish decided to call themselves a NFL team it doesn't make them one even if they play football and have a greater national following than the Steelers. The term applies to a particular set of teams. Likewise, the terms Role-Play Intensive and RPI apply to a particular type of role-play (enforced) MUD.

In 2006 I coined the term Role-Play Oriented (RPO) to describe those role-play enforced MUDs which bear many similarities to RPI MUDs without possessing all 19 characteristics (technically I coined the term in late 2005 but I didn't use it anywhere at that time besides in a private conversation with Wade from rpimud.com). The idea was to come up with a term the would allow games to distinguish themselves as being focused on RP without the confusion of misusing the term RPI. In retrospect, I didn't think about the abbreviation being the same as role-play optional and Role-Play Focused (RPF) might have been a better choice. No doubt though someone would come up with a term with the same abbreviation as that too though!

So, essentially there are two uses of the term role-play intensive MUD. The proper adjective refers to the original, historical use which is clearly defined by analysis of the term's origin. Then there's the later generic use of the term which has no clear definition beyond simply that of whoever uses it. This use may include Role-Play Oriented MUDs and MUSHes, role-play enforced MUDs and MUSHes, role-play encouraged MUDs and MUSHes, MUSs, H&S MUDs, PvP MUDs, and even pure PK MUDs though in the case of the last few the use would probably denote either ignorance or questionable motives (and hence why I personally discourage the use of the term for anything but those games to which the term was originally coined).

The original poster's title use of "RP-focused" and the description of the games and their use of "RPI" suggests they're not necessarily looking for a RPI but rather any RPO. Hence, I'll run down off the top of my head a list of both which might contain a game to their liking.

Role-Playing Intensive (RPI) MUDs:

Armageddon (tends to be a lot of combat emphasis though)
Black Sands (again, tends to be a lot of combat emphasis)
Harshlands (small playerbase)
Shadows of Isildur (depending where you play it has the best RP of the RPIs; I'd recommend Minas Tirith)
Southlands (again, very small playerbase)

Role-Playing Oriented (RPO) MUDs

Accursed Lands (though they recently had a major staff schism which caused discord)
Shadow Siege (continues to grow from what I understand)
The Inquisition (small playerbase)

I'm sure some more will come to mind later. I'll drop you a PM if I think of them.

Good luck in your search!

Jason aka Falco

P.S. -- I really do like the use of the term "Role-Playing Focused"!

[Wik]

Can an administrator please create a thread for these guys to bicker on, or would one of them do so?

As for OtherSpace, I might give it a try as well, although I generally tend to gravitate towards MUDs which involve mainly humanoids. Elves and the like are fine I suppose, but I really try to stay away from animals, reptiles, tentacles, aliens....

You'll find that we have a majority of humanoids, and our dominant races are both humanoid, albeit satyrish or with kaleidoscope eyes and mind powers. In fact, we offer starting characters the ability to apply from a variety of human eras that are sucked away via a rift so you aren't forced to enter with an understanding of an alien character or OtherSpace's history. I believe this month, you can come from WTC on 9/11 pre-planes, Woodstock (man, that was one bad mushroom...), or 16th or 17th century sea-borne plunderers. I think the last would be best for someone interested in a medieval setting.

[Newworlds]

Misao and Wik,

I stopped the discussion at the first post Misao made (today at 10:41am). I'm sorry the others did not respect your request and therefor I am created a thread with my original posts where they can hopefully delete their posts and move them to this thread:

RPI, RPE, and Roleplay

I hope this helps and stops the madness.

[jackal59mo2]

Originally Posted by misao I have found MUSHes in which RP, or writing a story rather, really IS everything. (admittedly, the majority of such MUSHes are adult-based MUSHes *blush*) To the extent where there are virtually no code limitations; you pose out everything and if your fireball hits someone, there will be no coded changes in his character as well. Those MUSHes have a culture in which detailed poses are the norm... and while this is good, it can be brought to an extreme sometimes. Elitist behaviour is often cultivated in which players say, "I refuse to RP with anyone who poses in less than 8 lines!" Another drawback is that since most RP in such MUSHes occurs in private (because it's really hard to coordinate group RP when everyone poses 8 lines and takes 10 minutes to do so!), and that, combined with the lack of code, causes there to be no... well... society-based RP. As in, people RP in isolated 'scenes', which has no effect on the society in general, because there was no society to speak of in the first place, since everyone huddles in rooms with one other person. Okay, fine, so it's an adult MUSH.

Honestly, this level of consent doesn't describe most and maybe not even many MUSH/MUXes (though it likely does describe the adult ones). Coded conflict resolution systems (which, on WoD MU*s, can include social conflict as well as combat) are much more common than pure consent systems. I've also heard about but never seen that sort of "pose-length elitism" on a MUSH or a MUX, and the one game I know that imposed some sort of minimum pose length was thoroughly and mercilessly mocked on the forum where they tried (and failed) to justify that ridiculous policy.

That said, it is fair to say that scenes on many of these games tend to be small because play is slow and tend not to greatly affect the grid as a whole unless they are staff-run scenes (which can either rock or be amazing examples of suck). It's also true that if you like medieval-themed games, your MUSH/MUX choices are rather limited; most that I know tend to be WoD, Star Wars, Star Trek, Pern, or comic book games. However, judging all games of a particular code type to be a certain way because you played sexually oriented games that use that code type makes about as much sense as saying that all MOOs are gleefully depraved because the only MOO you've played is HellMOO.

[Threshold]

Misao,

If you haven't already, you should give Threshold RPG a try. It is one of the oldest RP required MUDs out there, and has 13 years of rich IC history.

I cannot vouch for the quality of every single player's RP, but there have been storylines and character designs that are as good as the best fiction I've ever read.

Combat is a part of the game, but it is totally optional. Some people make it their focus, but many do not.

While the game has this much history, it doesn't feel old. We are constantly branching out and adding new features to keep the game fresh and exciting - even for people that have been playing for over 10 years (of which there are many).

Our players are so devoted, we even have an annual convention where players get together for a weekend of fun.

Journey Beyond the Threshold!

Check it out.

[misao]

Thank you, Newworlds.

I am awaiting the approval of the changes I had to make to my character for SoI. However, I did hear, to my dismay, from a friend that SoI's emote system doesn't even support an emote and a quotation (for speech) in the same line. This boggles and, honestly, disturbs me.

Originally Posted by jackal59mo2 Honestly, this level of consent doesn't describe most and maybe not even many MUSH/MUXes (though it likely does describe the adult ones). Coded conflict resolution systems (which, on WoD MU*s, can include social conflict as well as combat) are much more common than pure consent systems. I've also heard about but never seen that sort of "pose-length elitism" on a MUSH or a MUX, and the one game I know that imposed some sort of minimum pose length was thoroughly and mercilessly mocked on the forum where they tried (and failed) to justify that ridiculous policy. That said, it is fair to say that scenes on many of these games tend to be small because play is slow and tend not to greatly affect the grid as a whole unless they are staff-run scenes (which can either rock or be amazing examples of suck). It's also true that if you like medieval-themed games, your MUSH/MUX choices are rather limited; most that I know tend to be WoD, Star Wars, Star Trek, Pern, or comic book games. However, judging all games of a particular code type to be a certain way because you played sexually oriented games that use that code type makes about as much sense as saying that all MOOs are gleefully depraved because the only MOO you've played is HellMOO.

Yes, this is very true! I apologize for my generalization, and I thank you for pointing this out. However, for the reasons that you have outlined, my experience in MUSHes is rather limited, as I prefer not to play MU*s which are based around a series that I am not interested in. I did attempt to try Outremer MUSH but there was nobody online. Heh.

As for the elitism, it isn't enforced as a minimum pose length by admins. Again, it's the culture. Simply put, if you constantly pose one-liners people will just ignore you and not RP with you, because it's consent-based.

Originally Posted by Threshold Misao, If you haven't already, you should give Threshold RPG a try. It is one of the oldest RP required MUDs out there, and has 13 years of rich IC history. I cannot vouch for the quality of every single player's RP, but there have been storylines and character designs that are as good as the best fiction I've ever read. Combat is a part of the game, but it is totally optional. Some people make it their focus, but many do not. While the game has this much history, it doesn't feel old. We are constantly branching out and adding new features to keep the game fresh and exciting - even for people that have been playing for over 10 years (of which there are many). Our players are so devoted, we even have an annual convention where players get together for a weekend of fun. Journey Beyond the Threshold! Check it out.

Thanks -- I did attempt to try Threshold before, but I must have been given the wrong connecting address then.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by misao Thank you, Newworlds. I am awaiting the approval of the changes I had to make to my character for SoI. However, I did hear, to my dismay, from a friend that SoI's emote system doesn't even support an emote and a quotation (for speech) in the same line. This boggles and, honestly, disturbs me.

You can not put quotes in an emote because that circumvents the language system. You can however attach actions before something you say which does the same thing but thus requires listeners to know the language to understand what you're saying.

[misao]

Ergh no, it doesn't do the same thing, IMO. I can imagine how such a restriction would inhibit the flow of writing, especially since I tend to mix actions and words in emotes almost 100% of the time.

TI did manage to insitute languages while allowing actions and words in the same line, not sure how they did it though.

[misao]

This is an example of what I'm looking for, I guess. With a bigger playerbase.

Cei looks to a shabby looking woman with shoulder-length hair and Nathanial and folds his arms behind his back. Keiten sniffs once and glares at a shabby looking woman with shoulder-length hair, expressionless. Nathanial seems to catch the curious gaze of those present. He raises his hand to signal a brown-haired Lithmorran local with blue eyes, who nods and quickly hurries off. "Murder. We don't have tolerance for it in our kingdom," he states loudly, even as he begins moving a shabby looking woman with shoulder-length hair into position. "This woman is guilty of murder; ending the life of a man named Bemus." Vanson arrives from the south twirling a pair of keys on his middle finger. A large black Irdiran pinscher has arrived. Vanson slows to a halt. A brown-haired Lithmorran local with blue eyes can be seen down the street, speaking with a couple of guards. Quickly, those other two head off as well, intent to see to their sudden task. You have advanced in your knowledge of parry. Cassilyn, quiet for once, stands aside watching the scene with wide blue eyes and a slightly furrowed brow. Vanson moves in looking about, wondering what all the commotion is about remaining among the crowd inconspiciosly. Hands trembling, a shabby looking woman with shoulder-length hair is hustled to the post. Her jaw hangs partly open as she winces a bleary-eyed scan over the gathered crowd. "Bemus," she mumbles finally, after Nathanial's address. [Player] A whinny can be heard down the street, followed by iron-shoed hooves against the cobbled street. [Player] Vanson finally gets a view and raises an eyebrow at you in her state noticing the gore, keeping a calm face. He looks over to a shabby looking woman with shoulder-length hair watching curiously Cassilyn stares up at a shabby looking woman with shoulder-length hair from her position at the side of the crowd, hands raised to her mouth and sympathy evident in her large blue eyes. Jochen arrives from the south with short, calm steps. Jochen slows to a halt. Jochen makes his way into the square, remaining on the outskirts mostly. He squints as he looks about, attempting to recognize people. Nathanial raises his hand towards an arriving guard - who is mounted upon a rather powerful-looking brown steed. "Get them ready," Nathanial tells the guard, as other horses can be heard coming, too. He clasps a hand firmly upon a shabby looking woman with shoulder-length hair's back, calling, "Murder, treason... such cruel acts carry with them the punishment of death." An unobscured glance goes out towards you. Keiten watches a shabby looking woman with shoulder-length hair's face carefully, although very vague, he seems to be showing signs of appreciating the display. Three more horses, quickly en route, arrival shortly after, no doubt with thanks to the guard headquarters' proximity. They promptly dismount, and lash the horses with strong rope - the other ends are brought towards a shabby looking woman with shoulder-length hair. [Player] Vanson looks at the horses looking around. Keiten budges to one side momentarily and glances towards Vanson looking disturbed. Cassilyn does not seem to catch Nathanial 's eye, however. Her gaze is affixed on the woman and the horses, the wide blue eyes becoming progressively wider as the connotation strikes her. "No!" she gasps; however, in the bustle of the gathering crowd, it is highly unlikely that anyone would hear her. Breaking into fit of hoarse sobs, a shabby looking woman with shoulder-length hair sags her head to her chest, covering her head over her thin arms. "Sweet mercy 'o Dav!" she yelps, "Save m' murderin' soul!" [Player]

[Newworlds]

Hmm,

I've seen this type of structure on several MUDs and a few MUSHes but not any with a significant playerbase.

The pose+say combo I see alot on NWA with players that like to do that, but it doesn't happen all the time because what is used is a standard emote where you have to put in your own quotes, etc. I suppose a function could be given with that like an smote, which would be a functional emote allowing the say to be embedded where ever you wanted it. I just don't see how much more speedy or helpful such a function would be.