[Newworlds]

Greetings players and administrators.

I've created this thread as another thread was being railroaded by the topic of RPI (Role Play Intensive) and RPE (Role Play Enforced/Extreme/Excellence) MUDs.

The topic revolves around the origin of RPI and RPE and why a small subset of MUD's should annex the title RPI. The original argument dates back to a 239 reply thread here:

Guidelines for an RPI mud.

Every month or so someone brings up another thread about RPI's and relating them to this small group. Some gamers and creators believe that this is a misuse of the term Roleplay Intensive and take offense to this small group claiming that name for their subset of MUD's.

[Newworlds]

The following is an excerpt written by Proph1515 that I am bringing here for critique.

Originally Posted by prof1515 I'm afraid you're wrong. The historical origin of the term refers to the small group of games (Armageddon, Harshlands and then Forever's End) which shared, despite the first two having separate code development and origins, numerous similiarities which at the time were not present in any other MUDs.

Can you show evidence of this origin?

Originally Posted by prof1515 The group that attempted to "seize" the term RPI was not a group by any definable measure since they're wide-ranging games: some role-play enforced, some not; some hybrid H&S, some strict role-play only; some MUSH; some are even pure PK MUDs! The term simply was abused by games which either did not understand what the term meant or chose to ignore that in order to capitalize on the association.

Again, there is no evidence of this origin. Most of the evidence comes from posts on TMS and at the now defunct www.RPIMUD.org website that has been changed since its inception. Even the website, when operational, couldn't agree to a set standard of defined terms. Hence the heated debate in the above link and following quote.

Originally Posted by prof1515 That was not the conclusion to the discussion. The fact is that ANY term, including the term "MUD" is inaccurate in some regard or another. The term RPI was invented by and for a small group of that shared 19 characteristics. While these characteristics were never clearly defined (the people who created the term applied them to games that were similar; simply playing these games revealed the similarities), the meaning was clear. It was only later that I and some others attempted to define clearly what these characteristics were by examining the games to which the term originally applied and discerning those shared characteristics that those first three games possessed which were not common as a whole to any other games. Hence the list of 19 characterstics, some code and some policy.

Another reason why the term is ambiguous and another should be selected. Perhaps RPG-19.

Originally Posted by prof1515 Why? There's no reason. The term Role-Play Intensive or RPI was coined by these games to apply to their games because their games were role-play intensive. Other games which never met the characterisitcs of the RPI MUDs may have begun using the term but they're in error, not those which meet the original specifications.

Disagreed. No evidence of this.

Originally Posted by prof1515 Armageddon-type RPI and Harshlands-type RPI are two acceptable sub-categories of Role-Play Intensive (RPI) MUDs since both have independently-derived code yet conform to the same 19 characteristics. A third existing sub-category would be Southlands-type RPI as that's the third code lineage adhering to those characteristics. If one wanted to break down the sub-categories a bit more, the Harshlands-type RPI could be defined by the code: the original Harshlands, the FEM variant of the Harshlands code, the SoI RPI Engine, the Argila variant of the SoI RPI Engine and the RPI++ variant of the SoI RPI Engine. At present there are anywhere from one to three other RPI code projects in development (including one for my own game) which will if completed represent the fourth, fifth and sixth types of RPI MUDs.

With so many categories why have a group. Essentially you have roleplaying games that claim they are intensive. But that is arbitrary. I could play any of them and claim they are boring, rudimentary, slow, lack anything but pk and tons of time wasted using scripts to do crafting, lack global roleplay, and destroy long term roleplay storyline through permadeath. But even so it would only be one opinion not fact. As you may or may not know, this is the reason there is so much debate over who is a good actor. It is arbitrary. Giving this group a more copyrightable name would do wonders for clarity.

Originally Posted by prof1515 There already is a term for these types of games: Role-Play Intensive (capitalized or abbreviated RPI).

No, that term is usable by ANY MUD that the players feel is Role-Play Intensive or RPI.

Originally Posted by prof1515 To summarize the aforementioned discussion, there are lots of terms out there for text-based games featuring role-play: role-play, role-play enforced, role-play required, role-play mandatory, role-play encouraged, role-play focused (as used by the original poster in his title), role-play optional and role-play accepted. Role-Play Intensive MUDs are technically a type of role-play enforced/required/mandatory. But just because all RPI MUDs are role-play enforced does not mean all role-play enforced are RPI.

Every term in the above paragraph is clear and defined except RPI. Roly-Play Intensive is not and could be used by anyone as there is no standard for Intensity.

Originally Posted by prof1515 A simple comparison is the National Football League (NFL). All NFL teams are football teams but not all football teams are NFL teams. The Pittsburgh Steelers are a NFL team. If the Notre Dame Fighting Irish decided to call themselves a NFL team it doesn't make them one even if they play football and have a greater national following than the Steelers. The term applies to a particular set of teams. Likewise, the terms Role-Play Intensive and RPI apply to a particular type of role-play (enforced) MUD.

Difference. NFL is copyrighted and trademarked. It is a term for a club. A league if you will. A highschool team or college team is high school or collegiate. This is a poor example.

Originally Posted by prof1515 In 2006 I coined the term Role-Play Oriented (RPO)...(snipped for brevity).

Never heard of this term, ever. Even so. Role-Play Oriented denotes a game that is merely oriented in roleplay but doesn't require it. Similar to RP encouraged. It was your way of saying, hey guys, nice try but you know...you're not quite there yet. Which is false egotism since there is nothing inherently great about having only skills in a game. In fact, lacking Guilds would be notoriously lacking in roleplay as you lose groups. Like making a game with all rogues. You are limited to one class instead of several. We'll get into the downfall of these types of MUD functions and how they hurt rather than help RP later though.

Originally Posted by prof1515 So, essentially there are two uses of the term role-play intensive MUD. The proper adjective refers to the original, historical use which is clearly defined by analysis of the term's origin. Then there's the later generic use of the term which has no clear definition beyond simply that of whoever uses it. This use may include Role-Play Oriented MUDs and MUSHes, role-play enforced MUDs and MUSHes, role-play encouraged MUDs and MUSHes, MUSs, H&S MUDs, PvP MUDs, and even pure PK MUDs though in the case of the last few the use would probably denote either ignorance or questionable motives (and hence why I personally discourage the use of the term for anything but those games to which the term was originally coined).

The problem you fail to see is that most if not all roleplay enforced MUDs and MUSHes and PK MUDs especially are severely intense.

Originally Posted by prof1515 Role-Playing Intensive (RPI) MUDs: Armageddon (tends to be a lot of combat emphasis though) Black Sands (again, tends to be a lot of combat emphasis) Harshlands (small playerbase) Shadows of Isildur (depending where you play it has the best RP of the RPIs; I'd recommend Minas Tirith) Southlands (again, very small playerbase)

So here we have a grand total of 5 games. 2 of which have tiny playerbases, another 2 are combat and pk oriented and finally the one that has a playerbase and isn't combat oriented still is based on borging skills and crafts and limited to Tolkien's book.

Perhaps you should keep RPI just make sure the identification is Role Play Isildur.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by Newworlds The following is an excerpt written by Proph1515 (sic) that I am bringing here for critique.

Spelling is incorrect. While "ph" and "f" are phonetically similar, one is not my screen name while the other is.

Can you show evidence of this origin?

As has already been pointed out, there is a lack of documentation in the MUD community for just about anything aside from personal recollection. I will refer you to review a discussion over on Mud Lab though to get further information on the term. It is one of the few cases where the discussion of the term was ever documented though by no means is it the first or a definitive discussion.

Again, there is no evidence of this origin. Most of the evidence comes from posts on TMS and at the now defunct www.RPIMUD.org website that has been changed since its inception. Even the website, when operational, couldn't agree to a set standard of defined terms. Hence the heated debate in the above link and following quote.

First of all, your url is wrong. Secondly, the evidence also extends before that to discussions here and on mudlab.org. Third, the old rpimud.com never represented any systematic attempt to define RPI, just one man's loose interpretation.

Another reason why the term is ambiguous and another should be selected. Perhaps RPG-19.

The term is not ambiguous. The exact characteristics of the term were a bit ambiguous since they were never clearly defined until a couple years ago by examining the games to which the term first applied for similar characteristics which could constitute why some games were called RPI while others were not. It was simply a matter of figuring out what those games had in common that was not standard in other games of the time. By doing so, a clear definition of the term could be derived which matched its original usage.

With so many categories why have a group.

Because despite different code origins and different codebase development, they all possess the same characteristics.

Essentially you have roleplaying games that claim they are intensive. But that is arbitrary. I could play any of them and claim they are boring, rudimentary, slow, lack anything but pk and tons of time wasted using scripts to do crafting, lack global roleplay, and destroy long term roleplay storyline through permadeath. But even so it would only be one opinion not fact. As you may or may not know, this is the reason there is so much debate over who is a good actor. It is arbitrary. Giving this group a more copyrightable name would do wonders for clarity.

This is the root of your problem. You still apparently have a sub-par understanding of the English language. "Role-play intensive MUD" and "intense role-play MUD" do not mean the same thing. The order of the words signify to what the word "intensive" refers to. In the former term, the word is an adjective of "MUD" while in the latter it is an adjective of "role-play".

No, that term is usable by ANY MUD that the players feel is Role-Play Intensive or RPI.

Then they, like you, would be wrong and demonstrating their ignorance. Like it or not, the term was coined for those particular types of MUDs.

Every term in the above paragraph is clear and defined except RPI. Roly-Play Intensive is not and could be used by anyone as there is no standard for Intensity.

Again, your ignorance of English seems to be the root of your problem.

Difference. NFL is copyrighted and trademarked. It is a term for a club. A league if you will. A highschool team or college team is high school or collegiate. This is a poor example.

NFL is trademarked, not copyrighted. Even if they weren't, it still functions as an example because I was pointing out that while all NFL teams are football teams, not all football teams are NFL teams. The same is true of RPIs and role-play enforced MUDs.

Never heard of this term, ever. Even so. Role-Play Oriented denotes a game that is merely oriented in roleplay but doesn't require it. Similar to RP encouraged. It was your way of saying, hey guys, nice try but you know...you're not quite there yet. Which is false egotism since there is nothing inherently great about having only skills in a game.

And you would be wrong as I coined the term and can tell you what it means and my intent. RPI does not represent any ultimate goal. It represents a particular type of game. The term RPO was coined to signify games which stand out from the 300+ role-play enforced MUDs but which are not RPI. It is an ambiguous term because these games really lack any identifying standard beyond being role-play enforced. Some have levels, some do not. Some have OOC channels, some do not. Some have permanent death, some do not. They do all however possess differences from MUDs merely with stock H&S code and a role-play required policy though these differences are by no means the same from game to game. That is why I came up with a term for them.

In fact, lacking Guilds would be notoriously lacking in roleplay as you lose groups. Like making a game with all rogues. You are limited to one class instead of several. We'll get into the downfall of these types of MUD functions and how they hurt rather than help RP later though.

Apparently you don't know what a guild is. Beside that minor point, what would this have to do with the definition of anything?

The problem you fail to see is that most if not all roleplay enforced MUDs and MUSHes and PK MUDs especially are severely intense.

And yet again the problem is that you don't understand English very well. "Intense" is subjective. Your use of the word is also irrelevant to the discussion because the term is "role-play intensive" and not "intense role-play".

So here we have a grand total of 5 games. 2 of which have tiny playerbases, another 2 are combat and pk oriented and finally the one that has a playerbase and isn't combat oriented still is based on borging skills and crafts and limited to Tolkien's book.

How does the number of open games make any difference? To date, there have been about three dozen games which have been RPI. At present, there are 6 open (Dark Horizon's website states that they're open) and at least another 5 in development. But even if there was only one around, that wouldn't change anything as that has not always been the case.

What does playerbase size have to do with anything? No one has ever claimed RPIs were anything but a niche type of MUD. Although the two largest, Armageddon and SoI, have fairly good-sized playerbases that doesn't change anything.

Furthermore, combat and PK is not the emphasis of any of the games even if they do emphasize it as an element of their role-play. It relates to the setting they have chosen. What does Tolkien have to do with anything? These things don't relate to discussing what constitutes RPI.

Seriously, as an administrator of an ENGLISH TEXT-BASED game, you should have some understanding of the language. If English isn't your first language then my apologies for being rude. However, if it is your first language then you need to learn how the language works because that seems to be the root of your inability to comprehend things.

Take care,

Jason

[scandum]

Obviously people like the term RPI, but not so much the niche definition of it. Then again, what is the point of labeling your game RPI (just because it sounds cool) when everyone else does? I personally don't see how a mud without perma-death could call its RP environment 'intensive'.

I'd suggest coming up with a term of yourself, documenting the requirements on a webpage, and maintaining a list of muds that meet the definition.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by scandum Obviously people like the term RPI, but not so much the niche definition of it.

That is probably the root source of the abuse of the term though I try to avoid saying it since there's always the possibility of innocent mistakes by games that just didn't know the origins of the term.

Then again, what is the point of labeling your game RPI (just because it sounds cool) when everyone else does?

Exactly the reason coming up with yet another name for RPIs isn't worth the effort. First of all, those who have been playing RPIs for a decade or longer already use the term to identify the types of games they're looking for. Secondly, if a new term is created for what constitutes RPIs and non-RPIs decide they like that term, what's to stop them using it too just so they can capitalize on its usei and/or perceived reputation? All that does is continue to confuse the community with a repeating cycle of new acronyms for game types which already have definable terms.

I'd suggest coming up with a term of yourself, documenting the requirements on a webpage, and maintaining a list of muds that meet the definition.

Over at the RPMUD Network, we've got three terms we use. Admittedly RPO is rather vague. One game may have features A and B while another may have A and C while yet another has B and C. Short of dozens of terms applying to single games, we just use RPO as a catch-all for any game that isn't RPI but doesn't just feature a role-play enforced policy alone.

These terms are not any measure of quality, just categories for identifying shared features. One can go through and probably divide these categories into multiple sub-categories. RPIs could probably be sub-categorized as Armageddon-type, Harshlands/SoI-type and Southlands-type after the three modified code lineages they represent. I imagine RPEs could probably be divided much the same based on the stock MUD designations from which they are created. However, in the case of RPOs it'll probably result in dozens of sub-categories consisting of one, maybe two at best, games each. That's the reason for the catch-all term RPO.

Take care,

Jason

[Delerak]

Other muds are just jealous that RPI's get all the glory. Most muds, even if they use the word "roleplaying" in it means nothing to me. There is a whole genre that uses that word (RPG anyone) that has nothing to do with roleplaying but is simply hack and slash video games. The same applies online. People use the word frivolously.

role-play
  /ˈroʊlˌpleɪ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rohl-pley] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1. to assume the attitudes, actions, and discourse of (another), esp. in a make-believe situation in an effort to understand a differing point of view or social interaction: Management trainees were given a chance to role-play labor negotiators.
2. to experiment with or experience (a situation or viewpoint) by playing a role: trainees role-playing management positions.
–verb (used without object)
3. to engage in role-playing.


I think the first one hits home with me. In many games that claim roleplay they aren't defining it correctly. The players simply play the game. On world of warcraft there isn't any roleplaying because you're just being yourself. You don't have to worry about anything.. it's almost like chat-room roleplay. You can do whatever you want that you the player desire.

You're playing yourself, not assuming a role. This is also true at RPI's though. There are plenty of players at RPI's that simply play the same thing over and over, and really they're just playing the game as themselves the player. Satisfying their own out-of-character desires over that of a true character.

[WarHound]

If no one minds, I think I'll let Maddox speak for me on this topic, since I ALWAYS think of this article when I see the WHAT IS AN RPI/RPANUS threads pop up:

You drive a Honda Civic, not a race car.

Maddox: It doesn't matter how big your fins are, it doesn't matter how cool your rims look, it doesn't matter how much noise your muffler makes. You still drive a ****ty car. Period. End of story.

I figure that the crowd of, ah, posers, for lack of a better term, just want the association of 'elite' RP or whatever you want to call it, so they've snatched at the moniker to feel better. But anything more than a brief look will show you the shoddy paintjob, cheap rims, and less-than-intensive RP.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by WarHound I figure that the crowd of, ah, posers, for lack of a better term, just want the association of 'elite' RP or whatever you want to call it, so they've snatched at the moniker to feel better. But anything more than a brief look will show you the shoddy paintjob, cheap rims, and less-than-intensive RP.

You claim to be some expert roleplayer, but you take a "brief look" at a MUD and make a determination? Please. A brief look at your own MUD wouldn't even get your character approved. Yeah, great intense RP. Oh by they way, better check with Prof1515, it's not intense RP it is role-play intensive. Get it right!

[Newworlds]

Okay Professor (I use this term because of your anal attitude about your handle and your proclivity to focus on English language understanding rather than key points of discussion),

Let's try to break this down into simple terms to see if my limited understanding of English can comprehend you properly:

1. You want the sole use of the term RPI for games you feel follow your 19 subsets of Role-Play INTENSIVE standards.
Unlikely this will ever happen despite your monthly posts about it RPI and who is RPI.

2. You want the sole use of this term even though you admit that the specific website of this term www.RPIMUD.com was only one man's interpretation?
Odd that.

3. Any game can be role-play intensive but only your subset is allowed to be called RPI because you claim this term was coined by your group several years ago.
Similar to saying that any game can be called a MUD, but only games played with the GMUD client are true MUDs. Laughable at best.

4. You make the claim that I do not understand the use of the English language and in the same paragraph you drop a preposition at the end of a sentence.
Listen pal, if you want to critique another on language understanding, you might want to take a writing class first. Here's the sample sentence and the correction for your edification: "The order of the words signify to what the word "intensive" refers to." should be "The order of the words signify to what intensive refers." You're welcome.

5. You still claim and maintain that the term RPI was coined for these games.
I suppose you can claim that they are the only MUDs in existence and it still doesn't make it fact, now does it?

6. You claim that RPI does not mean an ultimate goal, it only means a specific type of game.
I don't buy this. If it only meant a specific type of game you wouldn't care what the acronym was, yet you bite down on this like a dog on a steak. You want the term associated with intensive as if no other game is intensive. At least be honest about it Professor. I was honest when I said that I do not agree with your concept of intensive and nothing in your 19 points of RPI defines roleplay intensive any more than opposing points which I will give in a follow on post. I am honest when I say that I and others take offense to your narrow view on role-play and the meaning of good role-play and what defines good role-play.

7. You claim that I do not know what a Guild is?
Can you be any more ignorant? Seriously, you promote games that do not even have guilds and you are now the definition on guilds? Get real.

8. You disagreed with my argument on the number of games making a difference.
This is one point I will give you. It shouldn't make a difference even if there was one game. The problem exists that a singular game or couple of games in the genre of roleplaying intensive games won't be able to have the buying power to annex the term RPI. Take Iron Realms games for example. The would likely have an acronym like IRMUD. Which is a decent acronym for their subset. If they, however, said that from now on if you do not have the 25 features of Iron Realms MUDs you cannot use the term RPMUD, I would have a problem with that as well. Can you understand this concept or are you still fixated on whether or not I understand the English language?

There is a lot more I could detail about your post, but for now this should give you ample information to argue about.

[Delerak]

A log from New Worlds

DISRUPTION IN THE RANKS OF THE FIGHTER'S GUILD

Driala asks, "Has everyone read Rinfa's recent post?"

Kaioti says to Driala, "My apologies if I offended anyone"

Ryko nods

Kaioti says, "I havent"

Rakesh lays his ears back partially and nods to the two that looked at him

Kaioti says, "Pose I should"

Mysti says, " Mysti, was General of the Outriders according to Rinfa"

Miaowara asks, "About the training regimen?"

Mysti says, " sorry Driala"

Mysti says, " yes its an outrage"

Miaowara hmms

Kaioti says, "You didnt have to go through it"

Driala asks, "The one in regards to stripping the rank of everyone in the army and the training regimen?"

Mysti says, " thankfully"

Miaowara says, "We have about three fourths of the awake guild here."

Kaioti says, "I spent 4 crown doing suicide missions against that dragon"

Kaioti says, "He told us, we need to work together to take him down"

Kaioti says, "We didn't have a strategy"

Kaioti says, "We would go running in after we sat a bit, and get one swing in before we all fell"

Driala says, "I'll reread it just in case."

Kaioti says, "He stated, that we would practice giving our lives for Gahlen"

Driala says, "Hmm... though that may take a while."

Miaowara blinks

Mysti shakes her head sadly

Kaioti says, "The last time we went, his saying was Be prepared to die"

Kaioti shakes his head

Driala takes a scroll from her pack.

Driala says, "From this moment on you all have zero rank over one another, save in times of invasion, then General Rydel, General Mysti, Over-General Driala and Captain Sahar have their ranks back."

Driala says, "But ONLY for the time of invasion."

Ryko nods

Kaioti nods

Miaowara says, "Um."

Kaioti gets a scroll from his pouch

Kaioti says, "I have the same"

Driala asks Kaioti, "Can you speak quicker?"

Miaowara asks, "Shouldn't we rather be prepared to make other people die, rather than doing the requisite dying ourselves?"

Ryko grins

Mysti smirks

Rakesh frowns

Mysti says, " makes more sense to me"

Rakesh asks, "If I may ask, what exactly is the point to this "meeting"?"

Kaioti says to Rakesh, "Patience"

Kaioti says, "If you dont have it"

Rakesh raises his eyebrows

Driala says to Rakesh, "This is very serious guild business and I thought that all members should be involved. You need to know what has occured."

Kaioti says, "Find it please"

Rakesh nods at Driala

Rakesh asks, "If this is serious guild business.. why isnt the commander here?"

Mysti whispers to Kaioti.

Kaioti hmms

Kaioti picks through the scrolls

Kaioti asks, "Training camp one correct?"

Driala says, "He refused a guild meeting."

Rakesh says, "So you meet behind his back..."

Kaioti says to Driala, "Leana is on here way"

Rakesh ponders the situation

Ryko wonders

Ryko looks at Rakesh.

Driala says to Rakesh, "I have already met with him just now."

Miaowara asks to Rakesh, "Correct me if I'm wrong, but are we not, as individuals, allowed to gather and discuss as we please?"

Driala says to Kaioti, "Should I continue or do you have it."

Kaioti asks, "Which do you wish to know?"

Rakesh shrugs

Rakesh says, "I merely asked why he wasnt here"

Miaowara whispers to Rakesh.

Rakesh whispers to Miaowara.

Kaioti says, "This is being done for a reason, I am under pressure from the Council for reform within the ranks of the Army, and upon furthing study I too feel it necessary. We will begin a training camp for all Fighters awake when I am. Every time that a command staff member awakens, at the moment limited to myself, every fighter awake will salute. After the salute an immediate report of activities will be given over the Army mindlink. After the reports are given all Fighters will ask for orders, if I am awake for a length of time I deem suitable, all Fighters will be given orders to mass at a location of my choosing, were we will ALL participate in activities until I am satisfied. If you fail to follow these orders you will be placed under review and if found wanting shall be suspended from the Army for a length of time equal to your lacking."

Leana arrives from the east.

Kaioti wipes his forehead, "Whew!"

Kaioti says, "Holy ****"

Leana blinks

Kaioti says, "I never spoke that much in my life"

Ryko gives Kaioti a glass of water

Kaioti thanks Ryko

Mysti chuckles softly

Kaioti drinks the glass quickly

Kaioti licks his muzzle Leana sits on her hind legs.

Driala asks Leana, "Are you a Fighter as well?"

Leana nods at Driala

Driala smiles

Rakesh looks at Leana.

Leana says, "Aye General. . ."

Rakesh smiles quietly

Leana asks, "What is going on. . ?"

Rakesh whispers to Leana.

Driala asks Leana, "Have you read Rinfa's most recent post?"

Leana shakes her head no

Kaioti says, "Further punishment will be decided upon should you fail to reform yourself. If you have a problem with this, tough, you're in the Army and I am displeased at the moment. -Commander Rinfa -Silverwolf of the Council"

Leana says, "I woke and Kaioti told me to come here, so I did. . ."

Kaioti says, "Ok...I can repeat the entire letter if you all wish"

Driala asks Kaioti, "I'm sorry, but could you read it again for her?"

Ryko smiles.

Driala says, "It is important."

Miaowara hmms

Kaioti says, "From this moment on you all have zero rank over one another, save in times of invasion, then General Rydel, General Mysti, Over-General Driala, and Captain Sahar once again have their ranks back. But ONLY for the time of the invasion." Kaioti says, "This is being done for a reason, I am under pressure from the Council for reform within the ranks of the Army, and upon furthing study I too feel it necessary. We will begin a training camp for all Fighters awake when I am. Every time that a command staff member awakens, at the moment limited to myself, every fighter awake will salute. After the salute an immediate report of activities will be given over the Army mindlink. After the reports are given all Fighters will ask for orders, if I am awake for a length of time I deem suitable, all Fighters will be given orders to mass at a location of my choosing, were we will ALL participate in activities until I am satisfied. If you fail to follow these orders you will be placed under review and if found wanting shall be suspended from the Army for a length of time equal to your lacking."

Kaioti says, "Further punishment will be decided upon should you fail to reform yourself. If you have a problem with this, tough, you're in the Army and I am displeased at the moment. -Commander Rinfa -Silverwolf of the Council"

Kaioti grins mischievously

Ryko laughs softly

Ryko nods at Kaioti

Kaioti claps

Driala says to Kaioti, "You read quickly."

Ryko agrees

Ryko says, "you should handle the auctions for the merchants"

Ryko winks at Kaioti

[Delerak]

A log from arm.

[When the story begins, our hero has found that, upon his lands, the
plants are wilted and grey, and the sands are
covered in sickly ash. Tracked through the ash are the broad steps of a
striding elf, whose flitting shadow and
cautious breath are the only other signs of his presence.]

Stony Barrens [NESW]
The ground here is as parched as anywhere on Zalanthas--the exposed
orange-red bedrock of sandstone agonizing daily under the brutal rays of
Suk-krath. In places, the punishing weather has cracked the stone open
creating deep gulches and leaving the ground littered with rock from
the size of pebbles to boulders.  Scattered across the terrain are steep
red buttes that jut up from the bedrock as if grasping for a breath of
cool air.
  Only the hardiest of vegetation persists here.  Cacti dot the landscape
in every conceivable shape:  masses of tangled, ground-hugging tubes,
spherical balls covered with thorns, even tree-like forms that reach
heights of twenty feet.
  Small mounds of dirt lie here and there to the north.   The earth is
freshly dug up, the color darker than the earth that has been bleached by
the harsh Zalanthian sun.

Magickal currents begin to swirl around a blur.

You slash a blur very hard on his body.
Your blow bounces off a blur's tough skin.
A blur utters an incantation.

You have been struck blind!

Someone slowly fades into existence.
Someone hits at you, but you dodge out of the way.
Someone hits at you, but you dodge out of the way.

You can't see a thing; you're blinded!

Someone stumbles about, his sword slashing in broad arcs in the air.

Someone exhales a sharp breath, his blue eyes opening and closing rapidly
- his features strained.

You think:
     "Dolarius guide me!"

You think:
     "This thing has taken the day from me!"

[Our hero dashes away madly, soon tumbling over some scrub which he
scrambles under.]

You can't see a thing; you're blinded!

You search for a good place to hide.
You use foliage in the area to hide.

[A few moments pass, they seem like years to our hero. Then suddenly...]

In a clipped, hissed manner, a male voice says to you, in allundean:
     "Drop your weapons and leave and maybe I'll give you your eyes back,
elf."

Someone stumbles back, scrambling across the ground, his sword sweeping
out in a broad arc in front of him.

Softly, a male voice says to you, in allundean:
     "The choice is simple...live to fight another day, or be a fool."

His voice hoarse, you ask, in allundean:
     "How about we do it the other way around, sharp-ear?"

Someone's breath comes in quick labored bursts, his mouth shaking as he
tries to speak clearly.

A male voice says to you, in allundean:
     "You'd rather I burned you alive...out here?  I can do it quickly or
painfully...your choice."

You think:
     "Dolsarius... just give me my eyes... I will pour this foul things
guts upon the ground it soiled!"

A male voice says to you, in allundean:
     "And you aren't in a position to argue."

His voice hoarse, you exclaim, in allundean:
     "My kin will be here in moments! Lift the night from me and we can
speak not as enemies!"

Someone whirls about, the wrinkles around his vacant blue eyes straining.

A male voice says to you, in allundean:
     "I'll take your turban and bracers as well....drop them all and then
you can have your eyes back."

His voice hoarse, you say, in allundean:
     "These old things? I can have my Nuli-pah craft you a finer set all
your own."

A male voice says to you, in allundean:
     "No, I will have yours...by the time I count to three."

His voice hoarse, you ask, in allundean:
     "We have started out with a poor stride. Let's fix that?"

You think:
     "Sands! Dol be with me!"

A male voice says, in allundean:
     "One."

His voice hoarse, you say, in allundean:
     "Listen, sharp-ear, we can speak... let me think."

His voice hoarse, you say, in allundean:
     "My head is heavy and drunk, just give me a moment."

A male voice says, in allundean:
     "Drop your goods -now-...there is no bargaining."

His voice hoarse, you ask, in allundean:
     "What is it you want then?"

Someone blinks his eyes heavily a number of times, staring blankly in the
direction of the voice.

A male voice says, in allundean:
     "The turban, your weapons and those bracers..."

You think:
     "Dol, I've served my tribe as best I can, just bless me with keen
sight now Dol..."

A male voice says, in allundean:
     "Consider this your lucky day...merely a mugging rather than your death."

A male voice says, in allundean:
     "Two."

His voice hoarse, you ask, in allundean:
     "Why do you come here like this? Is this the way of your tribe,
sharp-ear?"

Someone backs away from the voice, his hands trembling on his weapons.

A male voice says to you, in allundean:
     "Unlike your pampered self...I am of no tribe...now do as I ask
before I take your ears as well."

His voice hoarse, you ask, in allundean:
     "What happened to yours?"

You think:
     "Dol, I have no time. I accept your will, but beg that you grant my
sight... I hear your steps. Am I to join you
         so soon?"

Growing noticably irritated, a male voice exclaims to you, in allundean:
     "Do it now, elf!"

His voice hoarse, you exclaim, in allundean:
     "Wait! I can offer you something of greater value!"

The late, red sun descends toward the western horizon.
Lirathu, the white moon, slowly rises in the southeast.

A male voice says to you, in allundean:
     "Speak...and hurry for you will soon lose your ears."

His voice hoarse, you say, in allundean:
     "I am old. Many seasons I've run the sands. I have seen things much
more fierce than you."

Someone exhales a long shakey breath, his squinted, blue-eyed gaze
lingering unfocused in midair.

His voice hoarse, you say, in allundean:
     "I have seen the dead rise from the sands and sing with a voice that
would chill your bones..."

His voice hoarse, you ask, in allundean:
     "Have you heard of such things?"

A male voice asks you, in allundean:
     "Don't tempt me elf...are your precious belongings worth your very life?"

Someone backing away, his voice becoming paniced.

His voice hoarse, you exclaim, in allundean:
     "I have seen a tree whose sap can grow a man his severed arm back!"

His voice hoarse, you exclaim, in allundean:
     "I have seen pieces of Krath hunt the skies like vultures!"

His voice hoarse, you exclaim, in allundean:
     "I have seen stone arise from the earth like a 'kore and stumble
about on legs!"

His voice hoarse, you ask, in allundean:
     "All these things, and you want sandcloth from me?"

You think:
     "All these things and you think I would fear you!?"

[Delerak]

Those two logs prove the difference between an RPI mud and a non-RPI mud.

[Newworlds]

I find it odd that a roleplay game like Armeggedon still uses the antiquated think command. Think is an emote that is only useful to the character typing it as no one but a psion or mindreader would be able to roleplay off of it.

But that is beside the point. Here is the point:

A log from Armeggedon:

At your table, the goateed, orange-eyed man says in
sirihish, to you:
 "Anyway, how have you been?"
 "So, how have ye been? All bored 'n sad without me, I
hope?"
 The ample, midnight-tressed woman blurts out a hearty
chuckle, shaking her head.
 At your table, you say in sirihish:
 "Askin' the same question at the same time. 's funny."
 At your table, the goateed, orange-eyed man says in
sirihish, with a slight grin:
 "Oh aye, miserable. Drowning my sorrows in work I needed
to catch up on."
 At your table, the goateed, orange-eyed man says in
sirihish:
 "We're starting to think alike, perhaps."
 At your table, you say in sirihish, fluttering her dark
lashes lightly as she reaches out for the goateed,
orange-eyed man's hand:
 "Awww. Need some cheerin' up?"
A slight crease forms between the slim, onyx-haired young
man's dusky brows as he stares thoughtfully at his polished
jasper scorpion pin.
 At your table, the goateed, orange-eyed man says in
sirihish, taking your hand gently:
 "Its already been done."
 The black-braided little girl pauses to nibble upon a thin
braid, her azure eyes shifting between the ample,
midnight-tressed woman and the goateed, orange-eyed man.
 At your table, you say in sirihish, grinning amusedly as
she looks at the black-braided little girl:
 "Neh, silly, he is neh goin' to marry me. Not ALL
important people wearin' silk do that."
 The goateed, orange-eyed man chuckles.
 The black-braided little girl purses her lips poutfully at
the ample, midnight-tressed woman, shooting a final glance
to the goateed, orange-eyed man before she picks her
charcoal stick back up.
 At your table, you say in sirihish, laughingly:
 
 "Now she is disappointed."
 At your table, the goateed, orange-eyed man says in
sirihish:
 "You didn't tell her what I told you about that the other
day?"
 At your table, you say in sirihish:
 "Yeh. She was thinkin' ye are some sort of house merchant
person."
 At your table, the goateed, orange-eyed man says in
sirihish, with a slight smile:

A log from New Worlds:

       [**** Nindae the Merchant makes an Announcement ****]
 [*****************************************************]
A herald steps from the shadows ringing his bell: Hear
     Ye! Hear Ye! All are invited to celebrate the
 Darkness. Shadowfest begins NOW! Please hurry to the
      Center of Town for the Opening Ceremonies!
[*****************************************************]
Sithys says, "I am Sithys, High Priest of the Lord's Northern Holdings, for
              those who don't know me."
 Center of Town
   The heart of the city plays host to a splendid marble fountain, gleaming in
the light of the sun. A graceful statue rises from the pristine waters; water
cascades in delicate droplets, all the colors of a prism, from its cupped
hands. In the distance to the north, the spires of Gahlen Castle beckon
invitingly. To the south lie the low roofs of the land's historical buildings.
The slums are westwards, while a paved road leads eastwards to Market Street.
   The proud statue of a Feline Warrior stands here.
   Obvious exits : north, south, east and west.
Garxer (leaning on the fountain).
Derigan.
Tawney.
Sacha.
Tagris.
Fahn.
Talon.
Jaren.
Karhys.
Karhsel (sitting on the fountain's edge).
Murtoc.
Sithys (holding a large writhing net).
Nindae (standing and gazing toward the fountain).
Roviden (sitting on the edge of the fountain.).
Ashira.
Four Gahlen guards.
Sithys says, "I want to welcome you all to the beginning of Shadowfest.  A time
              to celebrate and give glory to the Lord for his gifts."
Sithys says, "Now, without any further adieu, I give to you tonight's speaker. 
              Ashira, the Assistant Guild Mistress of the Dahkoarim."
Karhsel claps for Ashira
Ashira smiles, "Greetings and welcome."
Murtoc smiles toothily
Ashira says, "When I moved into my office, I found a few parchments and notes
              regarding this and that in the desk.  One of them was notations
              on a festival held in the writer's homeland. I do not know who
              wrote them, or where this celebration took place, so forgive me
              for not praising them for their unique idea.  Instead I will
              honor it by sharing their beliefs."
Ashira reaches into the netting that Sithys holds and raises her hand high,
displaying a large dark moth perched upon it, its delicate wings fluttering and
long legs trapped within her hand. "This is a shadow butterfly, a night moth,
often called a Black Witch."
Karhys looks on and listens quietly.
Ashira speaks, her eyes alternately upon the crowd and the moth's wings as
they gently beat the night air, "Legend has it that the touch of the Black
Witch is the kiss of the night, a blessing sure to bring good fortune."
Izanagi arrives from the east.
Sithys smiles as one of the impressive moths crawls over his hand, his
fingers lifting to stroke the wings.
Ashira raises her voice, her words passionate as she closes her eyes briefly,
"Lord Dahkoar, we honor you with the festival of your shadows, we praise your
name and the beauty of the darkness. Let the kiss of the night touch upon those
that join us here."
-Sithys unlaces the netting fully, letting the night moths all spill out to
freedom.
Ashira speaks to the crowd again, "I pray that the kiss of the Black Witch
touches on each of you tonight, that you may feel the blessings of the night."
Tagris smiles and watches the moths float through the air.
Tharian swats at a moth as it flies by his head
Talon smiles
Ashira watches with a pleased smile as the night moths take flight, hovering
in a shadowy cloud over those assembled. Gradually they disperse, wheeling and
dipping through the air, a fluttering wing briefly touching upon a shoulder
here and an arm there. As they disappear into the night, she raises her hand up
high and releases the last of the moths, her voice loud as she proclaims,
"Welcome to Shadowfest, may the Lord be praised!"
Lesayre glances at Linwe briefly as he continues to listen to Ashira speak.
Nindae gazes up at the night sky.
Murtoc strokes his beard, appearing to be in deep thought
Yasmine exclaims loudly, "May Lord Dahkoar be praised!"
Sithys exclaims, "Praise the Master of Darkness!"
Izanagi dusts a moth off his sleeve
Karhsel says quietly, "Glory to His name..."
Karhys looks up into the night sky, "May the Lord of Darkness forever
protect and enlighten us."
Tagris nods his head at Ashira's words, "May Darkness be with us all
tonight..."
Murtoc exclaims, "May you find strength in his embrace!"
Ashira speaks out, her voice steady and strong, "This festival is a time of
celebration, a time of sharing and an expression of our passion for our faith
and our Lord.  When this festival is ended, that passion and praise will not
end with it."
Syrus arrives from the north.
Ashira pauses before she continues with a nod of conviction, "That is the
mark of true faith."
Ashira says, "Faith is not something you can put on and take off again at will.
              It is not something that you can walk away from or lay aside when
              it suits.  Faith is what you wear upon your sleeve day in and day
              out.  It shows with every step, every breath, every word."
Murtoc pounds his fist to his chest with a thud
Lesayre nods at Ashira, seemingly absorbed with the words that are spoken.
Ashira continues, one hand raising to close over her pendant as she speaks,
"If I meet someone new and they walk away from our conversation without the
firm impression that I am first, foremost, a servant of my Lord..."
Izanagi peers over the crowd looking at the faces
Ashira pauses and glances around, her gaze lingering here and there for brief
moments.
Ashira finishes the thought simply, "Then I have done something wrong."
Ashira says, "It is not how loud you praise, but how often you do so.  How
              sincere the sound when you do. How well you live what you preach,
              how you evidence your beliefs and your faith in your every
              action."
Ashira says, "Faith should not be simply a part of who you are, on occasion
              held up to admire or show off to others before tucking it away
              again.  Faith should be the very foundation that who you are is
              built upon."
->Ashira smiles slowly as she concludes, "Whether you believe in my own cause
or not, whether you understand the power of the darkness and dance in the
shadows...look around you as you go through your daily lives and see who you
truly know, who wears their faith upon their sleeve."
Lesayre muses in thought
Murtoc flashes a toothy grin
Sithys smiles at Ashira
Ashira says, "Again, welcome to the festival."
Talon smiles
Karhsel claps softly for Ashira
Karhys smiles at Ashira.
Talon bows his head briefly
.
Yasmine smiles at Ashira
Sithys raises his eyes to the sky, speaking out in a booming voice, "Lord of
Darkness, we praise you and claim this time as yours.  Be pleased with your
servants, Shadowfest is your time."
Lesayre smiles at Talon as he glances his way.
Sithys says, "Now, whowever feels that they have it in them.  Dahkoar
              Domination Darts will begin in mere moments in the tavern."

These two logs show the difference between an Arm MUD and a non Arm MUD.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by Delerak Other muds are just jealous that RPI's get all the glory. Most muds, even if they use the word "roleplaying" in it means nothing to me. There is a whole genre that uses that word (RPG anyone) that has nothing to do with roleplaying but is simply hack and slash video games. The same applies online. People use the word frivolously. role-play   /ˈroʊlˌpleɪ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rohl-pley] Show IPA –verb (used with object) 1. to assume the attitudes, actions, and discourse of (another), esp. in a make-believe situation in an effort to understand a differing point of view or social interaction: Management trainees were given a chance to role-play labor negotiators. 2. to experiment with or experience (a situation or viewpoint) by playing a role: trainees role-playing management positions. –verb (used without object) 3. to engage in role-playing. I think the first one hits home with me. In many games that claim roleplay they aren't defining it correctly. The players simply play the game. On world of warcraft there isn't any roleplaying because you're just being yourself. You don't have to worry about anything.. it's almost like chat-room roleplay. You can do whatever you want that you the player desire. You're playing yourself, not assuming a role. This is also true at RPI's though. There are plenty of players at RPI's that simply play the same thing over and over, and really they're just playing the game as themselves the player. Satisfying their own out-of-character desires over that of a true character.

Besides the jealousy thing at the beginning I agree with most of this.

[Delerak]

Why is your Arm log so strained together. You should have spaced in between the sentences and stuff. Eh. Whatever.

I fail to see your point though with the two logs. The system armageddon uses is far better for storytelling and roleplaying. That much is obvious to anybody reading any of the two logs.

By comparison I mean this: Armageddon-Roleplaying-Various Examples of Roleplay

and this: Untitled Document

Anybody can go look at each sites logs. Also that website is the OLD logs for arm from years ago. The new one is somewhere else on the site and is a bit more user friendly.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by Delerak Why is your Arm log so strained together. You should have spaced in between the sentences and stuff. Eh. Whatever.

It was cut and pasted as is as was the NW Log. Likely I could have hand detailed both and spaced them out, but that wasn't the point.

The link you gave is an ancient link from early BETA of NW. That link isn't even active for most people as it was linked to a seperate player's log system and should be replaced with something more updated.

What is more important here Delerak is that both logs do not represent true gameplay in either game. In order to know a game you must play it and play it for some time as shown in the thread: How to find your MUD Home

Without spending a good amount of time in a MUD to get to know the system, players, and staff, it is hard to make a true analysis of the quality of the MUD.

[prof1515]

You want the sole use of the term RPI for games you feel follow your 19 subsets of Role-Play INTENSIVE standards. Unlikely this will ever happen despite your monthly posts about it RPI and who is RPI.

They're not my standards, they're shared traits of the games to which the term was first applied. Amongst all of the various combinations of features and policies a small group was branded RPI. In trying to figure out what traits they had in common in order to identify the meaning of the term, a comparison of these games revealed 19 similiarities. It's not my list, my standards or anything of the kind. It is a list of the similiarities shared by the different games first called RPI.

Whether it happens or not is a matter of the ignorance of some and the idiocy of others. The ignorant can be tolerated and educated. The idiots who simply refuse because they're jealous, insecure or just plain stupid will always be a problem. But that doesn't mean the community has to accept them.

2. You want the sole use of this term even though you admit that the specific website of this term [/i]www.RPIMUD.com was only one man's interpretation? Odd that.

That site was started in late 2004. The term RPI predates it by half a decade. When Wade chose that name for his site he wasn't fully aware of the abuse the term had undergone. I'm not even sure he knew just how diverse the role-play MUD community had become and how varied the use of the term "role-play" was. By the definition of some people, Pac-Man or Pong is a role-playing game.

3. Any game can be role-play intensive but only your subset is allowed to be called RPI because you claim this term was coined by your group several years ago. Similar to saying that any game can be called a MUD, but only games played with the GMUD client are true MUDs. Laughable at best.

The term was coined with a specific meaning. It's akin to someone calling base-Diku a first-person-shooter or FPS. It's not because the term was invented for a specific type of game which base-Diku is not no matter how much someone wants to claim it is.

[i]4. You make the claim that I do not understand the use of the English language....

Role-Playing Intensive is an adjective used before the word game or MUD. Just as a rose-red flower is different from a red, rose flower. The latter refers to a rose but the former does not. It might be a carnation. Likewise, Role-Play Intensive has nothing to do with "intense role-play" (a subjective term in itself since one man's intense experience may be another man's mundane). There's a distinct difference between sloppy writing on-the-fly and a repeated demonstration of an inability to discern how the English language functions. I should proofread more. You should take remedial English.

5. You still claim and maintain that the term RPI was coined for these games. I suppose you can claim that they are the only MUDs in existence and it still doesn't make it fact, now does it?

The first games to which the term was applied were Armageddon and Harshlands. Over time more and more games began to use the term.

6. You claim that RPI does not mean an ultimate goal, it only means a specific type of game. I don't buy this. If it only meant a specific type of game you wouldn't care what the acronym was....

It is a term that the RPI community created and use to identify similar games. When every game type from RPE to H&S use the term, it makes it impossible to use. Coming up with a new term doesn't solve the problem since it's not like we have some congress every year where every RPI player attends to learn terminology. Some would still search for the term RPI because they know that the games they prefer to play were called RPI. Additionally, if a new term is invented, what's to keep every other type of game from co-opting that as well?

You want the term associated with intensive as if no other game is intensive. At least be honest about it Professor.

The screen name is prof1515. Why do you have such a difficult time with that? Your repeated issues with it suggests a disdain for education and feelings of anti-intellectualism. Get over it. My screen name is prof1515, not proph1515 or professor.

I am honest when I say that I and others take offense to your narrow view on role-play and the meaning of good role-play and what defines good role-play.

My view on role-play has nothing to do with the term. As for "what defines good role-play", quality is a subjective distinction and has nothing to do with whether a game is RPI or RPE.

7. You claim that I do not know what a Guild is? Can you be any more ignorant? Seriously, you promote games that do not even have guilds and you are now the definition on guilds? Get real.

A guild is an association of people with similar interests or experience, specifically a Medieval association of craftsmen or merchants. In the context of MUDs, guilds are often used to denote associations of characters. I have yet to find any RPI which does not have groups akin to the latter definition and many have groups similar to the historic definition.

So either you don't know what a guild is or you don't know anything about RPIs. Most likely the answer is yes to both.

The problem exists that a singular game or couple of games in the genre of roleplaying intensive games won't be able to have the buying power to annex the term RPI.

There was no use of the term "role-playing intensive games" prior to its use to distinguish RPIs from other role-play MUDs. Back in the 90s the term "role-playing intensive" wasn't used. Most MUDs didn't make a big thing out of role-play on their games like they do today. It was just a given that there was role-play alongside H&S and/or PvP. The RPIs did not feature H&S, removed H&S systems like leveling and experience points, and concentrated only on role-play. Their take on role-play features and policies was different than other MUDs and their players tended to prefer that style. To distinguish similar games from dissimilar ones, they used the term Role-Play(ing) Intensive or RPI. With the plethora of other terms to denote games where role-playing is emphasized (be it role-play enforced, role-play mandatory, role-play focused, etc.) that term allowed players of the RPIs to identify the games that they wanted to play.

Take Iron Realms games for example. The would likely have an acronym like IRMUD. Which is a decent acronym for their subset. If they, however, said that from now on if you do not have the 25 features of Iron Realms MUDs you cannot use the term RPMUD, I would have a problem with that as well.

Role-playing MUD and RPMUD are terms which have been in PRIOR use. Role-Play Intensive and RPI were not in general use over a decade ago when the term was created. Now, if someone complained that Iron Realms used IRMUD, that would be similar to the problem faced with the term RPI. It's a term that wasn't in general use and therefore is open for adoption to identify a particular type of game.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by Newworlds I find it odd that a roleplay game like Armeggedon still uses the antiquated think command. Think is an emote that is only useful to the character typing it as no one but a psion or mindreader would be able to roleplay off of it.

Think reveals a character's motivations rather than their actions. A politician may smile and say, "How are you?" while thinking, "I hate this asshole." The think command allows the player to demonstrate that difference and aspect of the character's personality.

With the RPIs, the goal is to play the character as realistically as possible, in essense becoming the character in every regard within the game, not to play it just so others can see it and react.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by prof1515 Role-playing MUD and RPMUD are terms which have been in PRIOR use. Role-Play Intensive and RPI were not in general use over a decade ago when the term was created. Now, if someone complained that Iron Realms used IRMUD, that would be similar to the problem faced with the term RPI. It's a term that wasn't in general use and therefore is open for adoption to identify a particular type of game.

I won't even respond to the tripe you just spewed in that horrific last post that you made into one large quote. Not only do you fail to impress with your duplicated unsubstatiated arguments, you can't even format them properly. You also cannot seem to discuss a point without bringing in personal attacks. It's a wonder anyone reads anything you write on your supposed RPI website.

If you truly wanted to gain steps in your goal of RPI control, you'd step down as a spokesperson. You are like dog trying to sell catfood.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by prof1515 Think reveals a character's motivations rather than their actions. A politician may smile and say, "How are you?" while thinking, "I hate this asshole." The think command allows the player to demonstrate that difference and aspect of the character's personality. With the RPIs, the goal is to play the character as realistically as possible, in essense becoming the character in every regard within the game, not to play it just so others can see it and react.

RPI, RPG, RPWhatever. Revealing hidden motivations as a think command is completely unrealistic. Hidden thoughts should be shown by action, spoken word, and poses, not by thoughts shouted outloud. Using this method is similar to walking around with a LEVEL 50 stamped on your character's forehead. Think should never be used in a roleplay environment unless the game has methods of thoughts being heard by ability or powers.

In your example you would have the politician holding a sign above his head with his thoughts on it.

[prof1515]

...cannot seem to discuss a point without bringing in personal attacks.

For personal attacks: see your comments in numerous above posts

...your...RPI website.

The RPMUD Network is not "my" site. I just pay the bills. Operation of the site as well as approval of content is determined by a committee presently consisting of 7 members. Sometimes we all agree on things, sometimes we don't. Sometimes I'm on the side of the prevailing position, sometimes I'm not (in fact, I've been on the dissenting side in 3 of the last 6 discussions).

Nor is the RPMUD Network solely for RPIs. When completed it will encompass all RP-enforced MUDs, MUSHes, etc. The site's emphasis will be focused on the players' perspective by providing independent third-party collected data and critical review and analysis. There might be some other features as well but the Operating Committee is presently having schedule conflicts which have prevented us from meeting for almost two months now. Finding a new time for our meetings is proving difficult at the present time and hopefully will be easier later in the year. It's putting us behind schedule but at this point there's little else we can do.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by Newworlds RPI, RPG, RPWhatever. Revealing hidden motivations as a think command is completely unrealistic. Hidden thoughts should be shown by action, spoken word, and poses, not by thoughts shouted outloud. Using this method is similar to walking around with a LEVEL 50 stamped on your character's forehead. Think should never be used in a roleplay environment unless the game has methods of thoughts being heard by ability or powers. In your example you would have the politician holding a sign above his head with his thoughts on it.

Your post reveals your ignorance. Other players can't see your think command. Only you can see what you think using the command. This command is merely there for your own expression of your character's thoughts.

If you'd ever played any RPI perhaps you'd know this.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by prof1515 Your post reveals your ignorance. Other players can't see your think command. Only you can see what you think using the command. This command is merely there for your own expression of your character's thoughts. If you'd ever played any RPI perhaps you'd know this.

Then my original post still stands true. If no one else sees it what is the point of the roleplaying command. Most MUDs don't let you talk, whisper, or attack yourself for this same reason that it is pointless. Are you saying these are also a requirement for your game as well?

The entire point of multi player roleplaying is interaction or didn't you know that?

[Delerak]

Originally Posted by prof1515 Your post reveals your ignorance. Other players can't see your think command. Only you can see what you think using the command. This command is merely there for your own expression of your character's thoughts. If you'd ever played any RPI perhaps you'd know this.

Also, staff most likely have a channel where they can see active thinks and they are most likely logged as well. It proves exemplary roleplay and helps imms understand why you're doing something.

Immortal wonders why the hell player A is sneaking around in the criminal underworld.

Player A thinks: "I better get this contract for the assassination or my boss is going to rip me apart"

Immortal goes.. ooohh. Okay.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by prof1515 The RPMUD Network is not "my" site. I just pay the bills. Operation of the site as well as approval of content is determined by a committee presently consisting of 7 members. Sometimes we all agree on things, sometimes we don't. Sometimes I'm on the side of the prevailing position, sometimes I'm not (in fact, I've been on the dissenting side in 3 of the last 6 discussions).

Why am I not suprised by this.

Originally Posted by prof1515 Nor is the RPMUD Network solely for RPIs. When completed it will encompass all RP-enforced MUDs, MUSHes, etc...

Again your illusion of fact. I seriously doubt any true roleplaying MUDs will want to associate with your network, hence ALL is a bit of a stretch, no?

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by Delerak Also, staff most likely have a channel where they can see active thinks and they are most likely logged as well. It proves exemplary roleplay and helps imms understand why you're doing something. Immortal wonders why the hell player A is sneaking around in the criminal underworld. Player A thinks: "I better get this contract for the assassination or my boss is going to rip me apart" Immortal goes.. ooohh. Okay.

Now that is a really good reason for the think command and I have played a MUD with this feature (for staff bonuses, interaction, or notice). I had forgotten about that one, Delerak.

[prof1515]

I seriously doubt any true roleplaying MUDs will want to associate with your network, hence ALL is a bit of a stretch, no?

This isn't a matter of wanting to do anything. Games do not list themselves. Our staff is collecting a list and data on each game. This way we hope to avoid the inevitable exagerrations and outright lies that many games incorporate into their listings on sites like TMS and TMC.

As for the word "true", I don't even care to ask what your definition is.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by prof1515 This isn't a matter of wanting to do anything. Games do not list themselves. Our staff is collecting a list and data on each game. This way we hope to avoid the inevitable exagerrations and outright lies that many games incorporate into their listings on sites like TMS and TMC. As for the word "true", I don't even care to ask what your definition is.

I'm glad "your" staff is collecting the data and avoiding exagerrations. I just realised that you aren't a professor Prof1515, you're a comedian. That's like the Democrats writing a report on the Republican Convention. Completely unbiased. Riiiiight.

Of course you don't care to ask anyone's definition of true for truth to you only comes from you, according to you, and substatiated by....yes, once again...you.

[prof1515]

Originally Posted by Newworlds I'm glad "your" staff is collecting the data and avoiding exagerrations.

Well they're not my staff since I don't have any control over them. I can't hire or fire them if I don't like what they do, say, think or feel. They're representative of many types of RP MU* experience. All data will be reviewed by the Committee and any reviews will be conducted by at least two members of the Committee to ensure that it's not just one perspective.

Completely unbiased. Riiiiight.

Bias is always present. The difference comes from having the maturity to recognize your bias and rely upon facts and observations rather than opinion alone. Again, that's why there's a committee of multiple members. This helps provide multiple perspectives and identify unreasonable bias.

[Newworlds]

And will you ever be admitting to what your goal in funding this project is? And please don't think us naive enough to believe you are doing it out of your unselfish love for the MUD community, you might make us throw up.