[scandum]

Hopefully I won't mess up attaching the poll.

[prof1515]

Monkey's Uncle's Delusion!

It was coined as Multi-User Dungeon so really that's good enough for me. Sure it sounds horrible since the term "dungeon" conjures images of tabletop gaming with really bad RPGs but in many cases such a concept certainly applies. Domain is a bit odd depending on the definition of "domain" being used though the term could apply. Dimension is simply poor in any regard as it ranges from pretentious to outright ridiculous.

[Ide]

It shouldn't stand for anything. At this point it's just a 'mud'.

[KaVir]

Bartle, Richard (2003). Designing Virtual Worlds. New Riders. pp. 9-10, 741. ISBN 0-1310-1816-7. "[pp. 9-10] TinyMUD was deliberately intended to be distanced from the prevailing hack-and-slay AberMUD style, and the "D" in its name was said to stand for "Dimension" (or, occasionally, "Domain") rather than "Dungeon;" this is the ultimate cause of the MUD/MU* distinction that was to arise some years later. [pp. 741] The "D" in MUD stands for "Dungeon" [...] because the version of ZORK Roy played was a Fortran port called DUNGEN."

[Tristan1992]

Originally Posted by KaVir Bartle, Richard (2003). Designing Virtual Worlds. New Riders. pp. 9-10, 741. ISBN 0-1310-1816-7. "[pp. 9-10] TinyMUD was deliberately intended to be distanced from the prevailing hack-and-slay AberMUD style, and the "D" in its name was said to stand for "Dimension" (or, occasionally, "Domain") rather than "Dungeon;" this is the ultimate cause of the MUD/MU* distinction that was to arise some years later. [pp. 741] The "D" in MUD stands for "Dungeon" [...] because the version of ZORK Roy played was a Fortran port called DUNGEN."

Cool quote. It explains why polls like this are made and why there isn't a consensus about MUD. It also pretty much tells us what the D originally stood for. I like Multi User Dungeon myself. The word Dungeon does not bother me as it appears to bother some people. I wonder why? (aside from prof's explanation of it being associated with D&D; but some people's dislike for D&D is the subject for another poll/thread I imagine)

[silvarilon]

Originally Posted by Tristan1992 Cool quote. It explains why polls like this are made and why there isn't a consensus about MUD. It also pretty much tells us what the D originally stood for. I like Multi User Dungeon myself. The word Dungeon does not bother me as it appears to bother some people. I wonder why? (aside from prof's explanation of it being associated with D&D; but some people's dislike for D&D is the subject for another poll/thread I imagine)

Dislike for D&D isn't the issue. Games that have no relation to D&D being linked to it is the issue.

If I was making a game about heroes that travel through a structure, room by room, fighting opponents, then the association would be fine. It may be an above-ground forest and not a classic "dungeon", but the connotations are appropriate for the style of game I'd be building.

If I was making a game where characters have relatively little need to explore the environment, and are interacting in non-combat ways with the environment and other inhabitants of the world (AI or other players) then "dungeon" really implies the wrong sort of game.

Ironclaw Online, as an example, is a political renaissance-themed game, about joining guilds, building alliances, playing politics, and socially choosing sides. Although you can pull out a sword and attack someone, that's not the point of the game (And you'd get arrested unless you, y'know, played politics to avoid getting accused, or get let off the charge.) Although the game world is made out of a series of interconnected "rooms", there would be no need to walk into the cathedral unless your character wanted to pray or do some other religious action. There would be no need to explore unless you wanted to (because the cathedral is marked on the map), you could, theoretically, play the game fine without exploring more than five or so rooms. So when we talk about a "dungeon", we're giving the impression that the game is structured, vaguely, along D&D lines where you move from room to room, defeating opponents or other players. In games where the gameplay and philosophy is very dissimilar to that, "dungeon" is a misleading term.

I'm not arguing it should be changed, I'm happy enough with the meaningless term "MUD", as Ide points out. That's a "game type" name in its own right, these days, regardless of what it originally stood for. Similarly, I'm happy for MUX to refer to either rules-light, or socially-focussed MUDs (and for MUX to be a subset of MUD.) The MUD/MUX distinction solves the above problem.

Personally, I don't much care. I'll call my game either ICO, Ironclaw Online, "a MUD", "a MUX", or "a prose text roleplaying game" depending on who I'm talking to, and which term they are most likely to understand.

[KaVir]

Originally Posted by silvarilon Dislike for D&D isn't the issue. Games that have no relation to D&D being linked to it is the issue.

The "Dungeon" in Multi-User Dungeon doesn't come from D&D, it comes from a single player game called Dungeon, because MUD was designed to be a similar style of game (except a Multi-User version).

I wonder if any Roguelike developers ever object to the name "Roguelike" on the basis that their game doesn't have rogues...

[scandum]

You can play Zork (originally Dungeon) here: http://thcnet.net/error/index.php

It's basically an adventure game that takes place in a virtual world described in text.

There is no combat to speak off, just a lot of puzzles.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by scandum You can play Zork (originally Dungeon) here: http://thcnet.net/error/index.php It's basically an adventure game that takes place in a virtual world described in text. There is no combat to speak off, just a lot of puzzles.

Wow, what a nastalgic ride into yesteryear. Reminds me of 8" floppy disks and crashing the school computer with a looping routine hack from zork.

[Darren Brimhall]

Originally Posted by Newworlds Wow, what a nastalgic ride into yesteryear. Reminds me of 8" floppy disks and crashing the school computer with a looping routine hack from zork.

You had to be careful with those 'B' Drives, especially if you accidentally tore the paper used on the 8-inch floppies...

Darrenn

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by Darren Brimhall You had to be careful with those 'B' Drives, especially if you accidentally tore the paper used on the 8-inch floppies... Darrenn

No doubt, they would catch in the drive. I remember those disks being so sensitive.

[iovan]

What it originally meant certainly is important but Domain always appealed to me more. It fits pretty much any genre of MUD perfectly. Dungeon has always made me think of hack n slashy MUDs. You know like the old text dungeon crawlers...

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by iovan What it originally meant certainly is important but Domain always appealed to me more. It fits pretty much any genre of MUD perfectly. Dungeon has always made me think of hack n slashy MUDs. You know like the old text dungeon crawlers...

Yes, but that's the beauty of it. Nostalgia is great.

[chaosprime]

Originally Posted by Newworlds Yes, but that's the beauty of it. Nostalgia is great.

Ah, I look back so fondly on the times of my life that were not consumed with nostalgia.

[Newworlds]

Originally Posted by chaosprime Ah, I look back so fondly on the times of my life that were not consumed with nostalgia.

Heh, you are getting old, man, old.

[chaosprime]

Originally Posted by Newworlds Heh, you are getting old, man, old.

Actually, I just like saying twisty, self-referential ironic things and will leap at nearly any opportunity to do so.