Perhaps free advertising in that issue of the magazine? Something like 2.5in x 4in black and white (or whatever the size for 1/4 page adds are).

OT:
That could be a good way to get more articles, informative papers, stories etc on all MU* mediums.

Like on TMC if a person submits an article and it is approved they could get 1 week banner add rotation. Or something along those lines.


*shrug*

This is part of the problem though. They are relying on advertisers to fund the project. If they start giving away their income source they will have the same problems that they have had in the past.

There is an old saying:
The world consists of two types of people; The few that go in front and create something of their own effort, and the many that tag along behind and complain that it was not done in a better way.

And as if that weren't sad enough, there is also a third type; the ones that get their satisfaction from tearing down and destroying the work done by others.

I am getting really tired of the attitude that is spreading in the mud community. It seems that whoever tries to do something for the community automatically becomes a target for certain people, who like to flame, bitch and criticize every flaw they can find.

It's very easy to criticize, but to actually achieve something of your own is a lot harder. By spreading your wings to fly, you not only run the risk to fail and fall to the ground, you also run the risk of being shot down by others. Those who never try, those who never rose above the ground, those people can sit safe and smug, bitching about the shortcomings of the ones that did try and perhaps not made it all the way.

Why this negative attitude? What are the motives? Envy? Rivalry? Personal dislikes? Many of the posts on this thread are not even constructive criticism, they are just bitching and flaming. This thread is yet another example of the same attitudes that made respected members of the community, like the Mud Commandos, decide to withdraw for good, thus depriving us of services that most of us valued and enjoyed. Now it seems that Neranz, a person who I deeply admire and respect, is about to quit on us too.

Where will it end? Where is the Mud community headed? What happened to the spirit of generosity, helpfulness, unselfishness, sharing of knowledge, positive feedback and mutual respect, which I was met by, when I first entered this world some years ago?  Where did all this crass materialism come from? Why all this hostility, folks?

Molly, our lady Neranz is backpedaling because of RL personal issues, not because of uncaring and unthoughtful posts here. I do imagine these types of comments do speed the process though when you get seriously fed up with beating your head against a wall.

Neranz, Thoric, you, et al from our generation of addicts developed thick skins and though we get frustrated, we keep on ticking and take another kicking.

I believe sight of the issue at hand has been lost. Step back, and regain perspective.

This thread is not about deprecative remarks towards the 'old school'. It is not about taking without giving in return, and it most certainly is not meant in any way to be disparaging towards anyone in general, or Thoric specifically.

Rather, it is about a service: bought and paid for, which was not delivered. And, short of the 'shouts out to my boyz' posts which have perpetuated this thread over the last few responses, the purpose of the thread has been realized. The provider of the service has remitted, and implied that, regardless of the future of the product (which I, for one, do not wish to see left on the wayside), what is due will be delivered.

Further, there have been several constructive suggestions to the service, which may or may not be accepted, and which may or may not actually be worthwhile.

Either way, the majority of these posts were not derogatory or defaming. Those who complained (myself included) paid for that right. The same response would be met from any group who did not receive that which they purchased.

I suggest, if there are those who do not like what they read here, that they go read something elsewhere, or that they take a grander look at the big picture than what they are seeing through their rose colored glasses. This is, as I said initially, not about defaming any specific person. And if you take it that way, then you have perhaps not understood the true gist of this thread.

Robbert, who is both a contributor and a complainer.

Speaking from a guy who doesn't normally have a lot of interaction IRL with other MUDders, either past or present, I would like to point out that a lot of the criticism coming from the community is reflective of the problems we have being enthusiasts for what is now either considered "too complex", or "outdated" by most people around us, whether they're right or not.

I mention that I like playing text-based games, and 99% of the time, I end up with either one or both of the following responses:

"Text? TEXT?! What the #### are you doing playing something in TEXT? Jesus dude, ever heard of CS?!"

*blank stare* "They have games online? That you can play? And they aren't those shooter-game-thingies? Huh. Sounds too complicated. You must be a dork."

I am, and I'm goddamn proud of it. But that doesn't also mean that I'm just a teensy bit red in the face when someone really bores into me, because I KNOW that a lot of what I do is childish here. But that's the point! It's fun! We enjoy blowing off steam in ways that most don't, and couldn't understand even if they tried to. We don't do things or see things in ways most people do; text seems too much like actually having to read, and not enough like TV. So who would care about something so stupid? Me.

However. The ability for me to log onto a MUD with a couple of friends who don't understand a thing and are very skeptical, and have them hooked within 15 minutes is...a miracle at least. And I've done it before. But that kind of ability comes from the MUD itself, and only truly exceptional MUDs and administrators can come up with that kind of ability. The problem comes when I get a taste of that ability, and then want it everywhere because I want to be able to point at my friends, laugh at them, and say, "You didn't know about it, and it's much cooler than you ever knew, and that makes YOU the wanker!"

Wanting this kind of excellence for the entire community is ridiculous, of course, I know this. But that doesn't stop me from wanting it anyway. And offering occasional criticism, constructive or otherwise, where I think things are really wrong. Whether I'm right or not is a moot point; almost everything I say is an opinion, key word: OPINION.

In the case of this thread, everyone who actually got their 2.50 refunded, get a life. Really. I don't care about this stupid "contractual obligation" idiocy, and I don't care about whether someone is "contributing to the community" or not. Those points have no purpose. The issue at hand is whether there is any reason to be bitchy about TMC, or, on the other hand, too many people in this "community" are whiners. I opt for the latter, and add myself into that category. Now whoever wants to be a leader can, but we have the disclaimer out in the open:

WE WILL PWN YOU IF YOU TRY TO BE NICE. IF YOU DO NOT MIND BEING PWND, PLEASE SIGN UP AT THE FRONT DOOR OF THE "MINISTRY OF LOVE" BUILDING. THANK YOU.

As for the magazine, and everyone whining about how they didn't get their issue or a cordial post, do what Elrus tells you to do:

"Quit yer bitchin'"

-Visko

I'll remember to tell that to the people who supply you with whatever magazine subscriptions you may have. They'll be thrilled to hear you don't want the remaining 25% of your subscription.

Would you really just write off 4 issues of a 12 month subscription? At the rates most magazines go for these days? No? Neither would I. Sure, this one may only be $2.50 an issue, but it's the principle. I paid for 4 of them, I only got 3. They claimed the 4th one was to be mailed in August 2002. It's now January 2003 and I've seen no sign of it in the mail yet. Nor have they responded to my refund demand. I'd like to think the fact that I haven't turned them in to Paypal for fraud counts for something. I wouldn't have been quite so patient with Popular Science or PC Gamer. The temptation is rising since my patience is wearing thin though.

Historical Revisionism alert =p. Game Commandos died for a variety of reasons. One of the biggest was the fact that the creators were BLATANTLY biased towards certain muds, and they steered articles, ratings, and reviews in that direction.

If someone submitted an extremely well written review about one of the "wrong" games, the GC editors would give it a low rating. But if you sent in a 100 word "This mud r0x0rz d00d!" review for one of the muds the GC admins played/worked at, it would get a high rating. It was absurd.

So for that and other things the GC folks were repeatedly slammed. They got sick of defending an indefensible position, and eventually had to give up the ghost.

[... Interestingly enough, The Mud Journal suffered a similar fate for very similar reasons, but I digress... ]

As for the concept itself, who cares if people are "tearing it apart." You'll find that the $2.50 spent by people who want to rip on it is just the same as the $2.50 spent by people who love it. This concept is what keeps many newspapers, news journals, and talk radio shows ALIVE. The people that HATE them are some of the best customers.


Free Advice: If you want to be successful at ANYTHING, be prepared to receive a LOT more criticism than praise. Life isn't kindergarten where you get a pat on the back for slapping meaningless squiggles of colorful fingerpaint onto a piece of paper.

Oh give me a break. Please spare us the altruistic BS. The magazine wasn't free, so don't try to deny the profit motive. I'm not saying you were trying to make a million bucks, but don't pretend you weren't hoping to turn a profit. Of course, there is nothing WRONG with wanting to turn a profit (a healthy enterprise is a profitable one, after all.

You were also doing it for the notoriety of being the creators of what you hoped would be the definitive MUD printed magazine. Again, there is nothing wrong with that.

Just don't act like a charity when you aren't.


Honestly, anyone who is so wishy-washy that they cannot weather criticism has no business doing or making ANYTHING that is available to the public.

Successful people, in ANY endeavor, are not wallflowers that can be blown over by any passing breeze.

Yeah, well the little cards for Newsweek subscriptions don't necessarily say exactly how many pages you will get, or how many full color photos will be included, or that there will be a page of political cartoons and quotes every week, etc. But if they didn't provide them, you can bet they'd be coughing up money FAST or they're pants would be sued off.

Seriously, I don't know what you hoped to accomplish by saying this, but it makes you look sleazy and dishonest, and I don't actually think you are. So saying stuff like the above doesn't suit your ends at all.


Attacking the mud community for failing to send you FREE CONTENT that you could publish and charge people money for is RIDICULOUS and childish.

I'm curious. I'm no legal expert, but the website also states on the information link that "Each issue features a full color cover, with high quality artwork". Would scribble on the cover be disputable as not being high quality artwork?

Oh, also, anyone hear when the issues are being mailed out?

Lotius

Talk about reviving an old thread...

For some strange reason I am getting the "What gender are you" poll in this thread.

Bizarre.

I really don't have any problem with the fact that the issue is so delayed... They tried to do something cool and it didn't go as planned, it's unfortunate but stuff happens. My only concern is with the lack of available info, I'd appreciate knowing where we are at this point and whatnot, that's all. In any case, I emailed them, explaining I just wanted an update, if I get anything useful I will post it here.

Another 2 weeks go by and still nobody has heard anything? Hrm.

Ich habbe keine magazin.

Still.

Anyone had any luck being able to contact these people? I've been trying to contact them by email now for a week and have yet to get any kind of response. Fed up would hardly begin to describe where I sit with this now.....

Hi.

Where's my magazine?

-Lotius

No doubt in the same place mine and everyone elses is. Some pile on the floor of a building - or worse - not even in existence yet. Since nobody has a clue at all what's going on at that place anymore.

Everytime this subject gets bumped to the front page by someone it shocks me equally.

I still cannot believe that the creators of this magazine have so BRAZENLY stolen 25% of everyone's subscription.

That's great. I'd contact PayPal though and inform them of the fraud that's being committed. These guys should NOT have the ability to accept money, and if a few people complain, they no longer will.

--matt

Been there, did that. No acknowledgement of the issue from Paypal aside from a note at the end of the complaint proceedure indicating they won't investigate because the purchase is older than 30 days. Nice little racket the magazine has going here I'd say.

No kidding.

And they cannot even be bothered to give any sort of "progress report" on these forums to their customers.