Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

It's ok to not like things.



As one of the authors, I don't pretend that everything I write will appeal to everyone. That's ok, I am no megalomaniac, and I do try to adhere to the very specific message presented in the very brief video linked above (it's not exactly NSFW but it does contain a swear word, but not an egregious one).

What I do see, however, is that people seem to be taking a very [read: almost unbelievably] narrow stance on the topic. Where the article references "online social gaming" at large, this thread seems to have a great many "on my MUD where nobody talks to anybody OOC, this isn't a problem". It should go without saying that in a game where EVERYBODY is closeted, then it's not exactly going to be an issue, shouldn't it [read: duh]. So, let's talk about where this article is relevant, in games where people actually do interact beyond the blinders of IC-only games, that is to say, the majority of online social gaming, which would be truer to the context of this article.

Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

@SnowTroll
I was taught that it was wrong to use slurs. So, I don't use them. The word black people don't like people using? I don't use it. The slur that is used for Jewish people? I don't use it. I don't even use the American word for Inuit. These are the right things to do. So, as a homosexual, I do find it offensive to be the subject of, or witness to a slur that is derogatory to my sexuality and which is inarguably socially sensitive. I don't feel 'not casting slurs' is an incredibly high standard by which to hold a person.

Inaction is action. Not working to make one's social gaming environment free of bigotry is a statement in itself. And there are places people can go, thankfully, where these things aren't tolerated. And that's good.

I almost feel the need to apologize that you have difficulty understanding why someone might shy away from environments where bigotry is a problem, but perhaps that's the Canadian in me. [insert Nationalistic slur here]

Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

No, it isn't. Its not a change in meaning. To call him ignorant regarding what the discussion is about, is exactly as bad as calling him ignorant in general. As its a callous dismissal of his opinion.

Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

I buy into that Penny Arcade comic in the article. You're assuming a level of humanity that just doesn't exist in many people. We will never, ever completely be rid of bigotry, just like we will never, ever completely be rid of idiots (if anything, we're on the Idiocracy path, and things are getting worse).

I've long since given up trying to fix people, and am comfortable just letting others be wrong and stupid. That's their right, and it's my right not to bother with them. The correct solution to this problem is what's being done already: if a game's not fun enough to ignore or tolerate the presence of idiots, quit patronizing those games that are full of idiots. A strong second would be to just ignore them. When an idiot spouts off about faggots this and that and how gay something is, and all he gets in return is silence, or at best, equally idiotic people commenting back with incomprehensible gibberish, that's a far better and more effective alternative than trying to incite some sort of public outcry, in the hopes that a group of complainers, and maybe a petition or two, will convince a server admin to start policing the banter on an MMO.

Why do people want to fit in among the least common denominator of illiterate internet users anyway? I'm straight and don't want to fit in with them. I'd be downright offended if any of them accepted or liked me. I would think there's something wrong with me.

Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

Are you a non-native speaker or are you just ignorant about the way the English language works?

There is a tremendous difference. Please study up.

This is a forum for TEXT GAMES. I shouldn't have to dumb down the way I write to avoid people misinterpreting something as an insult when it isn't one.

Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

Wow, sorry for coming late to the party guys (I was on a semi-break from TMS and mudding for a while), but I have a few things I'd like to point out based on my experience in the many MUDs I've visited and hung out in over the years.

I think I need to preface this by saying that I don't hate homosexuals and I don't tolerate hatred or violence against them.

1. I've never seen a MUD that tolerated hostility towards homosexuals. I've seen people in different places say bad things about homosexual people, but I've never seen it get so bad that whoever was in charge of enforcing rules wasn't doing anything about it. I don't think there's a single active MUD out there where the Admin is going to respond with any sort of hateful rhetoric or allow it to go on unhindered, unless the Westboro Baptists finally set up a MUD somewhere (GodHatesEveryoneExceptUsMUD?).

2. I -have- seen MU* environments which basically all but put themselves on the Pride bandwagon. If you say anything contrary to what the homosexual rights movement believes in an OOC discussion, you're done: get out of our game. You're a bigot, full stop (to use a British term).

I've seen this go as far as a cleric character getting muscled out of a game because the cleric would not perform an in-game same-sex wedding ceremony because the cleric didn't agree with same-sex marriage, though the cleric had performed male/female in-game weddings before. The cleric never told the couple that they were going to Hell, or that the cleric hated homosexuals, or anything of the sort; just denying the service was enough to leave a black mark, even though other clerics were willing and available.

3. No one ever seems to want to stick their necks out for people who happen to have a religious belief. Even if everyone on a game's OOC channel is proudly atheist, it won't stop anti-religious discussion from coming up sooner or later. The discussion of religion may or may not have anything to do with a religion's take on homosexuality, it doesn't matter. If you're a Catholic, people will say that your priest touches kids. If you're a Jew, people tell you that you hoard money and are trying to take over the government. If you're a Mormon, they ask how many wives you have. If you're a Muslim, they say you're going to blow something up.

#3 is endemic to the Internet; I've often said that people on the Internet have no place in commenting on the religious beliefs and practices of others, because 9 times out of 10 they have no idea of what they're talking about and are usually basing their incredulity and insult on something they don't properly understand. Still, there's a wide audience for anti-religious rhetoric and they will eat up anything except what the religious say in their own defense, regardless of how wrong the critic was about the religion and how right the defendant is.

Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

One need look no further than the most recent "jesusdiedforusall.com" thread on mudconnector for the reason why. The site owner has put his personal religious banner in the ad rotation because he can, and because nobody can stop him. The poster iovandrake has heavily implied that gays are animals and shouldn't be allowed to marry. I don't know about you, but I don't even want to be associated with that, much less stick my neck out for them.

-dentin

Alter Aeon MUD

Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

So you're saying that all religious people act like those people and are therefore deserving of any insulting comments wherever they go?

Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

Yeah this is a memory from a long time ago (and honestly I don't remember it being an issue then), but you're not going to be finding very many teenagers on muds these days.

Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

Oh good someone brought this thread back to life. More straight white male privileged viewpoints definitely needed.

Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

You just don't get it, Orrin, if I've never been personally effected by something, it means it's not worth addressing, obviously.

Also: Now with religion.

Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

Because as we all know, anyone who doesn't think bigotry from anonymous and harmless sources on the internet is a serious issue is clearly a white male bigot. You have to be a minority to understand how terrible the world is. Maybe one day, middle class white guys will finally realize the error of their ways and start apologizing for years of ignorance. Because being a normal guy who wakes up and goes to work every day in a world where someone might be bigoted against someone else and not caring about that serious issue is, itself, dirty bigotry.

Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

Yes, because pointing out that straight white males (of which I am one, myself) are ill-equipped to recognize the pervasive and harmful nature of bigotry in all its forms is equivalent to calling all straight white males bigots.

Except, no, it's not- but admirable effort at living up to the latter half of your name.

I'm really kind of wondering why you're so offended by the idea that people think bigotry on the internet is a bad thing? Do you believe bigotry deserves a haven? Should it be okay to be a bigot in certain places? Like, why should bigotry be acceptable -anywhere-?

Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

Not just the internet, but everywhere. Stupid bigots have just as much of a right to be wrong and stupid as everyone else has for their proud and non bigoted points of view. It's not illegal to be wrong and stupid. I strongly prefer a world where stupid bigots are outspoken and obvious so I can make an informed decision how much attention to pay them, what opinion to form of them, and how to act appropriately. It's just as wrong to censor stupid bigots as it is/was to force homosexuals to stay in the closet and shut up.

Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

This thread delivers.

Re: Finding a Place to Call Home: Communities Tolerant & Accepting of Gay Gamers
 

Indeed it does! Ironically, anyone who is so contemptuous towards bigots is by definition... a bigot. Bahahaha! Anyways... ;-)