Listen, for all of you who seem to have forgotten, these boards are for discussing things to do with muds, not the color of your f'ing socks, or any of the other utter total f'ing garbage that is being posted. I could care less who has the whatever # post, or what stupid freaking poll is about what just to be on the most recent discussions list. Seriously stop ruining what at one time was a WONDERFUL forum for actual discussion about muds.

If you have such a need for a goddamn ego stroking, go pay for the code and host you own goddamn message boards on your own site and stop mucking up this one to the point where people don't even want to bother reading it anymore

I think the main problem is that the description of the Tavern is the 'place to post about anything.' :\ I agree, it's kind of lame... but as it stands it is allowed under the description given. I will probably talk to Synozeer soon about what kind of posts are allowed (for example if the socks thread which is knowingly a pointless thread should be allowed). Any other opinions?

i agree with terloch

I certainly agree that as the level of meaningless posts (or at least posts that aren't mud realted) increases, my want and time to keep up with the forums decreases. I'm all about people having fun, but sometimes that "fun" is just the opposite for others who take these forums to be a place for discussion on a semi-specifc topic (muds). The fact that some people probably do it for the sake of increasing their post count just makes it worse, since no one really cares how many posts each other have. In any case, there's my [hopefully helpful] opinion.

--Validus

I blame that fellow in Bugs and Suggestions who was complaining about a lack of threads involving socks! I am but a pawn in this game...

I strongly agree that tavern threads should not appear in the recently updated discussions box.  They push out the legitimate topics and very nearly eliminate any benefit most people get from the updated discussions box in the first place.  This will allow most people who wish to stick to the true mud discussion to do so and simply ignore the tavern.

Further, I think posts like the socks post should probably not be allowed.  Even though the tavern is a 'place to talk about everything', I think this should still be in the context of muds.  There are several threads that are, imo, good tavern threads.  I like the 'retaining players' thread a lot (could arguably be somewhere else), the what do you read thread (relevant because 90% of mud themes are pulled from sci-fi and fantasy literature), the thread about being an imm (though the quality of the poll itself is rather low, some good discussion) and a handful of others are borderline ok.  However, there are thousands of forums on the internet.  If you want to discuss the color of your socks, go find a sock forum, a fashion forum, or a 12 year old culturally stereotypical girl column (no offense intended to 12 year old girls).

Fixing the recent discussion box is the very *least* which needs to be done.  At least let us avoid this mindless babble.

i made a topic in bugs and sujestions fourm, instead they shoould create a spammers forum and keep that out of the rrecent box, this way it will make the spammmers happy and make the legeit people that come here happy, then everyone is happy.

Well, I suppose that'd be ok at "the very *least*," but I'd still rather see some of the unnecessary threads gone since, like you said, there are some good threads that take place in the Tavern.

--Validus

I don't want the spammers to be happy.

Seriously, why should Synozeer spare the bandwidth for a forum which has -nothing- to do with his website?

Absolutely, 100% agreed.

--Validus

ok, so we can keep the tavern out of recent forum discussions, but i don't think it should be JUST mud-related topics. the random ones are, in my opinion, a fun way to get to know people who have the same interests as you, other than just muds. i mean, muds are fun and all, but people do other things, so why not find out what else people are into? if it was just serious discussions in here, i wouldn't have made the friends that i've made. there are really nice people in here, and serious discussions don't let you meet any of them!

-likita

*nodnod @ likita* why cant it be just place of mudders ,here in tavern ?

If you want to meet people, create a 'What do you like thread.' I'm all for getting to know one another, but isn't that what the Introductions forum is for?

I don't think removing the Tavern from the recent discussions box is a good idea. I think removing the pointless threads from the Tavern would be a better idea.

You can get to know people perfectly fine without having threads like 'what color socks are you wearing.' For example, the songs thread. That is a fairly ok topic in my opinion... it gives you an idea of the kind of music MUDders listen to, and what they like.

The socks thing, I feel, is absolutely pointless. As such, at the request of many others, it will be removed.

So you feel that knowing what color socks shaolong wears has really helped you to get to know him?  Shaolong was curious if other mudders had similar sock preferences?

Think about this for a couple of seconds.

Look, there used to be some great topics in here and not all of them were related to muds, but all of them were at least a little though provoking and most were likely to be relevant because of the subject matter.  The old 'what d&d class/race are you?' thread was very likely to get a good response because there are lots of roleplayers around here (far out!)  Discussing neverwinter nights will get you interesting respones too, cause we have a lot of gamers here (bizarre!) Books, roleplaying games, cool internet sites, fantasy movies, mud clients, and a hundred other things, many of which have very little to do with muds, could make interesting threads here.

But your sock color?  Threads started asking for flames (what do you have against me)?  Favorite fast food restaurant?  I don't have these conversations with my rl friends, and I certainly don't care to have them here.

What's worse, these threads are bombarded by spam, which clogs up the recent discussions, and in turn they start threads like this one, which are necessary but ideally would not exist.

What I fail to comprehend is this thread. Sure, I can accept the socks thread being closed. I didn't give it a long life-expectancy anyways due to the silliness of it. But really, you people ought to tell me how it helps to get rid of a thread by making ANOTHER pointless thread, complaining about the first pointless thread. In effect, it started with one thread taking up the Recent Discussions thingy. Then it became two and now it's back to one again. So as I see it, it only got worse for a while.

Or am I wrong here?

i think it's fun! so, leave it out of recent discussions, but don't delete everything! do you think peopel will want to deal with the forums if there's nothing on here but the serious discussions? i mean, not everyone should have to uptight jerks, like some people, who, since i'm in a fairly good mood, shall remain nameless. i think some of you should pull your head out off your ***.. maybe you'll find your sense of humor.

-likita

I think you're likely just wrong in this case... While I cannot speak for anyone elses intent, I view the goal of this thread as discussing, constructivly, a way to deal with what some people feel may be a problem. Someone posted a complaint, and the forums moderator acted upon it by asking for the opinion(s) of other forum users.

--Validus

I still don't get it why this thread should be any better the the socks thread, but I digress... Some things are just not for me to understand I suppose... :\

Actually, this thread has a very relevant point. It's to demonstrate the complete lack of tolerance people have for the threads that clutter things and don't provide anything of actual substance. I agree with it, and I expect some not to.

But, Sidmouth has brought up a few good points... one of which has piqued my curiosity, and as soon as I finish posting here I'll be starting a new thread for it...

Seriously, though. If you have a serious thread (such as the 'songs in your head' thread, the 'what class/race do you play' thread) have fun... but when you start a thread, please consider one thing before you do. "Why am I posting this thread? Do I really want to know? Or am I doing it just because I can?"

If it's the latter... don't post it. If it's the former, post away.

Yes,I really want to know a lot . You'll never will have to carry knowledge on yer back,so....

well, what if someone really IS seriously wondering about other people's socks? how can you judge "oh, that's not a serious discussion" and delete it, without knowing? i mean, the socks wasn't serious, but as an example, what if it was? who's to say?

-likita

where to buy one ? where to find ? which mob to kill,Orion ?? tell me !!

My personal least-favorite threads (while I know many enjoyed them immensely) were the "Word Association" and "Story" threads, both of which took up two slots in the "most recent discussions" box -constantly- due to the frequency of updates. They no longer appear quite as often; I am relieved. I'd be more relieved if spam and meta-spam threads (ie, this one [yes, I am a hypocrite]) also didn't appear, though. I come here to read about MUDs. Nothing more, nothing less. While I don't object to other discussions being under way, I do object when the number of other threads proliferates to the point that not -one- MUD/RPing thread appears in the little box upon which I depend.

this space intentionally left blank

Although I do post in the Word Association thread off and on, I agree for the most part.  If I wanted to find friends, I'd go to a site made to get people together; if I wanted to discuss music, I'd go to a site about the type of music I enjoy; if I wanted to discuss the color of people's socks, I'd see a psychiatrist; and if I wanted to witness a group of people insulting each other, I'd go to the playground at the elementary school down the street.

This place looked really interesting at first, but it seems that most of the people who had useful information to share have either stopped posting it to flame others or have just stopped posting.  I have no problem with people having a bit of fun, but not to the point that normal discussions no longer exist.  

Most of the forums I've used and worked for, have banned all flaming, profanity and off topic posts;  I think Orion is trying hard to compromise, and should be given credit for that.

There is another compromise which might not make everyone happy, but would probably satisfy both the purists and the completists.

People have complained that the socks thread (and the like) is more appropriate for the Introduce yourself Forum. Solution: transfer that thread to that forum.
Word Association and Storyline threads a bit too escessive for Tavern of the Blue Hand? Transfer them to the Storytelling Forum. Both fit the fictionalised setting of that forum.
The song categories, books, movies, etc. still fit the Tavern motif, as it generates content which is of interest to a sizable portion if only for guaging the demographics of mudder's tastes, in areas which relate to the mudding influences.

I don't think moving individual posts within a thread to the Spam or Flame threads would work in some cases. The point that context is highly necessary (even in spam) does have some weight. This doesn't mean the spam/flame posts can't be spun into their own unique threads, with a linkback to the original thread for reference.

I know I made a non-mud related reply to the Woo! thread about birthdays, but that thread is about a member of the mudding community, which could feasibly be placed in Blue Hand. (Unfortunately, they spam, flame and why me? thread also fit within this category, since the forums themselves have become a part of the mudding community. I don't have any suggestions for those situations, unless a forum about forums were created.

Just my opinion on the matter. Perversely, I agree that this thread is very relevant to the current forum. Hopefully some more posters will come up with some constructive suggestions. It never hurts giving the moderators a pool of ideas which they can sift through.

I would have to agree with Terloch and others... I would say this forum should only be for mud related stuff, certainly no socks threads, however at the same time, I don't see the harm in the word association threads. I think the lines need to be drawn in the sand so to speak, and a decision made by someone who can.

Weiss

All this fuss about one of my threadss. Come on people, it was a JOKE. I posted that thread because someone else was glad there wasn't a socks related thread yet, I didn't post it to **** off 90% of you people who are quite a bit too serious on these forums. Jesus...

I should start a carreer in advertising if anything I post makes such a fuss...

Isn't censoring a thread on censorship the ultimate form of the latter. Thank you for your kind words. At the risk of being banned from these forums (and if I am right at the moment I would say no serious loss) I would like to start a referendum for the resignation of the censor. (Maybe that should be the poll).

Maybe I need to repeat a little of what I said before, in my censored thread. Take serious mud discussions to the serious parts of the form. This one is for being silly and having fun and, I will add, should be run by someone who has not forgotten what fun is.

I see many of you young players who are so darned (I really wanted to use a stronger word here, read it in yourselves) serious about it all that you have forgotten that above all else (Unless you own evercrack and are making money at it) that a mud is a GAME that we are supposed to be playing for FUN and ENJOYMENT.

Take away the fun
Take away the goofyiness
Take away the laughter
Take away the community each (larger) mud has

What do you have left -- nothing working PLAYing.

Take away the fun, the goofyiness, the humor, the sense of community the silliness here has and what do you have left?

A group of mudders who will go elsewhere, leaving this place so much poorer for their loss. Because they are not the newbie inexperienced players. They are the ones who (while you may not always believe it) care.

ps -- thank you Molly

As for me having no sense of humor: I certainly do, and my bookmarks contain a small selection of humorous websites.  This is not one of them.

This website is for the discussion of muds.  Sure, muds are a form of entertainment, but that has never stopped literary critics from hotly debating the merit of an author, or high life elites in New York from trashing this or that new broadway play.  I think most people here are here because they wish to discuss the nitty gritty of muds.  What makes a mud entertaining?  How can I make mine more entertaining?

To take a comparison, Slashdot is filled with spammy posts, some of which are quite funny.  Even if you do find links to a certain website (you know what I'm talking about), calls for slashdot blackouts and "why *BSD is dying" posts to be funny (and the latter 2 are very amusing to me), you probably do not read them, and any legitimate poster would almost certainly not speak up in their defense.  This is noise run wild, and it is a -moderated- forum where you can avoid most spam by browsing at high mods.  Topmudsites has no such system.  The point is, I don't go to slashdot for funnies.  If I wanted to laugh, I could go to seanbaby.com, forum3000.org, thespamletters, or any of a number of other sites.

Now, if it is the case that the majority of people on the boards do not find the signal to ratio noise of these boards to be annoying, then perhaps nothing should be done about it.  However, if many people find that: a) the spam is annoying, and b) it damages the usefulness of the forums for appropriate discussion, then something -should- be done.  It is my opinion that people have mixed views about a, but I believe we have a majority that will agree with b.  Again, the very least that should be done is for the posts to be removed from the recent discussions, as this will greatly mitigate b.

-Sidmouth

[EDIT]: Decided I did not agree with myself about censorship.  If anyone feels that Orion is being unfair, I think it is appropriate that they should bring it up.  Just keep in mind that this is a private forum and Orion has been entrusted by Synozeer to censor if he sees fit.  If people have an issue with Orion's management of threads, they should bring it up with him or Synozeer, but it's a little early to call for his resignation on the basis of a post or two that you felt was justified and he didn't.

[EDIT]: Reread Kyandra's original censorship post and find myself agreeing with my original statements (which I deleted). As the owner of this -private- forum, Synozeer is well within his rights to censor language and offensive humor if he sees fit. My clarification above is in the spirit that if you believe a moderator is truly abusing their powers, debate is welcome. However, I think Synozeer has made it clear that he objects to strong language on these boards, and so it is quite clear that Orion is acting appropriately to me.

If you wish the policy on strong language to be changed, then start a thread, but make it a little more constructive than "Orion should resign and only Nazis disallow dirty jokes".

I agree that these forums do not need to be all serious discussions. I understand you guys want to have fun, but some things like the color of your socks, what your favorite fast food restaurant is, etc. I could care less about. I know it was just a joke, but some of us are just sick about the way these forums seem to be heading.

I do have a sense of humor. I enjoy reading things in Mud Humor and posting in the quotefile thread and all, but at least those things are semi-mud related. Really, when someone said why should Synozeer spare the bandwith for something that is totally unrelated to his site, I completely agree.

And I hate to see the Tavern of the Blue Hand become the forum for spammers and pointless, stupid posts. Some things, like the What Alignment are you? and What DnD Character are you? threads were interesting, and a nice way to learn more about people, while still having some relevance to muds and mudders' interests. Yet, with all the spam, it drowns out some of the more relevant posts.

I started a thread in Tavern of the Blue Hand about Retaining Players, which seemed to spark some serious discussion. I don't think it really fit anywhere else, as it wasn't an advanced mud concept, it didn't have to do with roleplaying, or building, or coding, or anything. But threads like that get lost in all the pointless threads, and some people don't even visit the Tavern of the Blue Hand because of all the mindless posts.

So, while you guys may enjoy the random silly posts and all, I think you should respect the majority of the people here's wishes. And if you really must post these kinds of threads, like someone said, there are plenty of other places where it would be more fitting.

I just wanted to make a couple comments about this.  First, I don't consider myself to be a young player; I am older than you are.  I also think that you seem to have confused the forums with the games being discussed.  The MUDs are meant for fun and enjoyment, but I was under the impression that this site was for sharing information and ideas aboiut them.  When I want to play, I go to the game rather than doing it here.

There is nothing wrong with my sense of humor; I even find a lot of the spam funny.  I just think that so much of it in a forum not meant for it is very disruptive and detracts from the purpose of the boards.  Having worked as a monitor/moderator, I know that people tend to dislike anyone who restricts what they're able to write; but I also know that with nobody doing that, the forum is doomed to be nothing but a slow moving chat room.

well, i don't know if it's really necessary to say that i agree with kyandra, since what she said is basically what i've been saying all along, but i will anyways. i thought it sucked when no one really listened to me, and i think it sucks worse that no one's listening to her. i was new here and i didn't really have an influence, so why should anyone listen to me, right? but from what i've seen, kyandra seems to be someone who has a pretty valuable opinion, and she's not a "spammer" or anything like that, so you people should maybe let some of the stuff she says sink in. you guys keep saying that no one wants to deal with the forums after it becomes full of "useless" posts, but i think that a lot of people won't want to come if it becomes all serious and boring! at least leave ONE forum FUN! i mean, if you don't want to read about socks, you can NOT click the thread that says "what color are your socks?" am i the only one who thinks it's pretty obvious?

-likita

Fun for who?

Forums are supposed to be fun, but there are many thousands of forums out there so ideally everyone can find one that suits their intrests. A few "community" posts that have nothing to do with the main topic can be fun, but they shouldn't take over. When fun but off topic posts by a handfull of users start out-numbering on topic posts the group is on it's way down, I've seen this happen both with web forums and USENET groups. New readers are turned off because the group is mostly fluff and in jokes that they don't get, not the topic they came to the site to discuss.

I find discussions that have some depth to be fun, I like discussing the implications of things. I don't find reading fluffy chats between people I don't know to be fun, that sort of thing would be better served by IRC, ICQ or private email. Is there some exhibitionist thrill folks get by holding pointless private discussions in public? Shallow, off-topic discussions between just a few people (say 5 or 6) clutter the boards and make them LESS fun for most of the other readers. I've barely read these forums in the last few months because nearly every topic in the recent discussions box has nothing to do with mudding.

Taking the TotBH threads out of the recent discussions box would help. Another option would be for some savvy chatter to create a #topmudsites channel on an IRC server, creating a fun, informal place for members of the community to chat without disrupting ongoing mud related discussions here.


Angela Christine

Take away the mud, and what do you have left? Discussions which don't belong here.

I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I would not consider it any great loss. On the old forums it was always understood that the Tavern was for general discussions related to muds - this is, after all, Top Mud Sites. And everything was fine back then, without your "group of mudders". I'd be more than happy to go back to the way things were; I come here to discuss muds, not to participate in idle chatter.

My suggestion is that Synozeer changes the forum descriptions to state the obvious. Just as we have warnings that state "this coffee is hot" or notices on packets of salted peanuts which state "this product contains nuts", so Synozeer should place a notice stating that the discussion forums on Top Mud Sites are for discussing issues related to muds.

Don't you see what they've done already? By making such a big stink and whining about 'censorship' and 'why aren't we allowed to do whatever we want' they've made the focus of the forum all about them, anyway.

I say just silently sweep their #### under the rug (translation: into the trash can) every time you see it until Synozeer updates the description from 'The place to post about anything' to 'The place to post about MUD-related issues that don't fit in any of the other forums' or something like it.

Otherwise, this place looks like an AOL chatroom. I'm surprised there's been no 'hey baby wanna cyber' or 'a/s/l' yet.

hey...I still dont understand..
If you look for serious discussions - why cant you go to serious discussions section ?
and if knowledge that on another section some people talk and think differently,troubles you that much,why dont you start complaining that somewhere in internet there are some stupid discussions ? somewhere in all our damn world ?

Isnt the knowledge that mudders are here,is enough to make this thing mud-related ??

I sorta agree with shao_long here serious discussions are in the other categories of the forums, the tavern still though is intended for mud related, however it doesn't mean they have to be serious

Ah yes, the wonders of discussion forums. It's like politics, they can't agree even on the single most boring thing, even here. It's like there is this constant war against anything that isn't related to MUDs. First it was the spam and now it's the talk that's not related to spam which would lead me straight to hell, if I were to believe the lot of you people.

Now seriously, I think general unrelated talk should be allowed. Why? Simple, because it's thanks to that this is a community, not a load of people who just post allot and about 300 people who lurk and leech information with ever saying something themselves. (those people talk the loudest in here, odd isn't it?)

That, and maybe, MAYBE there are people here who are here for that community who you're all so enthusiastically willing to kill? I am, for one. I couldn't care less about MUDs. I played one and I liked it because of the social aspect, but the MUD itself was boring like *BEEP*. And I honestly think I'm not the only one here who just likes being here to talk to people, sometimes in a silly way and other times not.

Anyways, I fully encourage a seperation from the front-end Recent Forum Discussion thingy. If people want to read any interesting threads in here, they shouldn't be such a lazy bum and click the two damned links that lead to the Tavern. Don't ruin the fun for others because you're too lazy to click a few links.

listen,folk ! maybe you really should pass a petition to Synozeer asking to kill the comunity,leaving just info ??

hell,people ! Not everyone's here just for 'information'.People mean more.

That statement makes absolutely no sense. How can someone lurk without saying anything, yet talk the loudest?

However you are wrong about the community aspect. The community here has built up around people who like to discuss muds. It's only recently that other people have decided to come here and talk about socks and other completely unrelated things. And if you "couldn't care less about MUDs" then what on earth are you doing on Top Mud Sites?

Once again I reiterate, Top Mud Sites is a forum for discussing muds. If I want to learn about your socks, I'll find a sock discussion forum (and if I WASN'T interested in socks, I wouldn't log on there, tell everyone that I wasn't interested in socks, then proceed to start discussing muds).

Really, you people disgust me. Learn a few manners.

Given that the majority of non-MUD posts on these forums are generated by a small group of people, one solution is to ban that small group of people by IP, given that they ignore all suggestions otherwise.

I agree that it's good to have a forum for miscellany, so long as the miscellany is at least peripherally related to MUDs. There are plenty of good threads on the Tavern, but they're difficult to find, and the spam has greatly hindered my desire to use this site.

well,point me to ANY pure spam posts in Tavern for last days..
(Socks dont count - they had a REAL reason )

banning people by ip is hard cuz most of those n00bs use aol and its not a static ip, if you ban the host isp all toagther then your losing the others that come here to talk about the important stuff, but everyone needs to chill, the forums have been settleing down tho.

As of 11:24pm central time, shao, xanf, seth, and likita have a combined total of 997 posts. TMS has a total of 3040 posts. There are 403 total members. That means that 4 people have about 33% of the posts while 399 people have the other 67%. Arguably, a great percentage of those 997 posts have been spam, or arguments about spam. Many other people's posts have been in response to the infamous 4.

I believe these facts speak for themselves.

The "community" you refer to appears to consist of yourself and three others. So why don't you take your "community" elsewhere else?

You appear to miss the point. This is Top Mud Sites. The forums here are for discussing muds. If you want to discuss other things, then take it to email or to a private chatroom. You are not wanted here.

If you want to play, play. If you want to talk about muds, then do so. But this is not a mud, nor a chatroom.

No.

No.

1. I am not American.
2. You apparently don't understand the meaning of "freedom of speech".

An interesting fact from the statistics supplied by Mason is that if every member of these boards posted as frequently as the four individuals he mentioned, there would be over one hundred thousand posts every month. Let's just be glad that most of the other posters show a little more consideration!