Though it's futile, one last stab at defending myself: I do have a mind of my own. I am not a sock puppet (or any kind of sock, for that matter), nor am I a zombie, or free-will challenged. It's not as though Logos asked me to join the boards just to back him up... he has no idea who I am. He may even be a little weirded out that I'm speaking in his favour... even though it's not just in his favour, if someone else amused me as much then I would state thus. These arguments are stupid, and I think that's what he's trying to get you to see. Arguing on these boards is going to change nothing but the way you feel about yourself, even if that self-esteem comes from cutting other people down and tearing apart what they say word by word.

All of you are so self-righteous that people are afraid to come here and have fun... these boards shouldn't be a threatening place, they should be a place that MUDers can come and meet and talk... yes, a civil term: TALK... about MUDs and the things going on in them.

Nope, I had no idea when I came here what the whole Medievia controversy was about, and for that I apologize. I'm sorry to have interrupted your dead serious 'discussions' with my mindless babbling and 'schizophrenic ramblings'... intelligent people conversing with people trying to defend their own intelligence, even when not under attack, amuse me. I expressed my amusement the way I always do. So if I offended you, I'm sorry. If I ****ed you off, I'm sorry. Get off my case. If you don't like what I say and you think I'm as insignificant as you claim, then just ignore me instead of giving me a reason to reply. I thought you were all advanced, perhaps this method escapes many of you because you like to hear yourselves talk, and get your jollies off of ripping people apart no matter what they say.

Mmhmm, I like attention, just like the rest of you who post, because otherwise you wouldn't be posting, as posting tends to draw attention. Maybe I like it more, sure. And okay, I'm immature, I'll take that. But God forbid anyone list your faults, my friends, or we shall be here all day. Luckily, if this too ****ed you off, I don't care, and neither should you. They're just schizophrenic rantings of a teenage dramaqueen, after all. Have a lovely day, friends.

I like it.

*chin* nothing seemed to merit a new paragraph, actually...

Talk about a run-on sentence! Jazuela taught me about that.

A simple sentence consists of a subject, a verb, and a predicate. When a reader must do research in attempt to find each of these three, then you have already lost your reader.

Regarding paragraphs:

A typical paragraph will begin with the point. A brief explanation of the point follows, and a summary of the point will end the paragraph. Often, a paragraph will contain only three sentences; though there is room in the "rules" for variance. If, however, your point is hidden within a "wall of text" and is not easily discernable, then once again you have already lost your reader.

A hundred words strung together with elipses (...) does not a sentence make.

The written English language: love it, embrace it, own it.

*gigglefall* I love you...

There, I just paragraphed it... poorly. Oh well, I don't have much time. But is that better?

Also... I like elipses. Obviously... and I don't care what JK Rowling said about elipses being personified writer's block...

... ... ... ...

^_^

Much improved. Now I can actually comment on what you said, rather than the existence of the wall of text!

Let's see:

First, kudos for acknowledging that you came into this forum, a veritable noob, and interrupted a rather serious discussion with silly bouncy giggly happy smurf-speak. Kudos for appreciating why it wasn't appreciated.

Second, what the heck is gigglefall? Is that like a waterfall with giggling smurfs falling down from the top? Remember please, this isn't a MUSH or MUD, it's a forum. We don't have a verblist here in this forum. It's always a good idea, if you wish to be taken seriously, to avoid using faux emotes in a public forum (though the occasional <smirk> is always entertaining).

Third, feeding trolls is never a good idea, because you end up dropping to their level and annoying everyone in the process. Some folks here get their jollies by attacking each other. Some attack each other only when they are seriously offended by something. And some prefer to just lurk and be amused and avoid the line of fire.

Bear in mind, the moment you step into the firepit, you become a target. Topmudsites can be brutal that way. If your asbestos suit is at the tailor's for repair, or if you walk into the firepit because you didn't bother to open your eyes and notice it was there, then you've only yourself to blame when the flames start boiling your skin.

It's a fun place here, but what constitutes "fun" is vastly different from many of the muds our members play. Giggling happy bouncy smoochy types usually get trampled. I get my beatings on occasion, and I'm about as anti-giggle as it gets. You learn to either take the beatings, or stay out of heated discussions, or say your piece and bite your tongue and absolutely positively refuse to take the bait when someone attacks your post.

Good luck and welcome to the 7th layer of Suk-krath's fiery pits of h311!

While some of it may be some attention drawing, forums, and the internet are places where ideas can be shared. People who have ideas, or are drawing blanks on Ideas that they are developing want to hear feedback about those ideas. We don't post just to post (well, at least not here I don't).

When your signal to noise ratio is low, you tend to lose respect in a community like this. It may not be nessicarily so, in this forum, but in other forums, signal is good, noise is bad. And as Jazuela noted, a little fluff is okay, a lot is annoying.

Oh, and first impressions mean a lot.

I wonder what my 1st post was..

One thing you should know Kopribear is that these boards are really not worth visiting if you're not a mud developer. They're extremely newbie unfriendly, particularly if you have a whif of commercial mud player on you.

Heck, these boards aren't even veteran friendly. They're so flamey that the denziens of #### must look on in envy.

-H

*whispers* a gigglefall... has nothing to do with smurfs. It's falling down laughing, or giggling in fluff speak. And I apologize for annoying you all with my... 'fluff'... it's just the way I am I suppose.

I'm not a MUD developer... but I still find the discussions interesting and will likely continue to remain here, wanted or unwanted. As for my first impression... whoops. Guess that went out the window ^^;;

I'm not a mud developer and I can tell you right now I have found these forums to be amazingly entertaining. The amount of energy to flame Medievia could be used as an infinite fuel source to heat the
world!

By the way, I'm new here too. I'm very opinionated when it comes to my mud, balance, and a variety of other things.

Have a nice day. Oh, and watch for me...I'll be here.

Very well said Jaz and I apologize for not applauding that work of art earlier.

Kopribear...you ARE welcome here as is everyone else who is part of the mudding community, noob or not, frequent poster or not. While occasional jibes 'gigglefalls' are certainly fun and entertaining, I think we strive for comments that actually contribute to the overall discussion. Think of reaction before you post is probably a good golden rule.

Welcome to the fray, Jeena.

Just as the amount of damage that Mercthievia has done to the mud community could be used as a weapon of mass destruction.

I'm not a MUD developer and I think it's worth coming here. If only to discuss all kinds of things. There is a good exchange of ideas going here and I like to take part in it, even though I may not program the MUDs.

Shh, okay, non MUD developers are fine here, too. I'm sure he sees your point after two or three people have said the same thing. It's not worth the argument.

I'm not a mud developer either. It's also not much fun telling Hardestadt he's wrong, because he always takes it so well. Tavern of the Blue Hand is the forum category most of us "lesser beings" hang out, but on occasion most of us will take a shot at responding in one of the other categories.

And whether he wants to believe it or not, there's more of us than there are of him. He is outnumbered. Let's just humor him though, hm? Or maybe gigglefall and lol and rotf and stuff on him. Yeah, that'll show him!

No! Please don't! That'd be worse than reading another dissection of the Diku license. *sob*

-H

I must... I cannot contain it... *takes a deep breath*... *gigglefall!*

...*ahem* anyway, 'lol' is a sin against the internet.

You really should work on your flaming. I believe the proper slam for Medievia is Medthievia.
By the way...propoganda is not the end all of proof.

Ye without sin..cast the first stone. It's easy to slam someone who's out there...while you hide behind your p2p programs, and your "tolerated" copyright infringed mud backgrounds.
If there's been any damage to the mud community I'd say it came from sniping, nasty jibes from this forum.

Mercthievia is another commonly used name (on account of the fact that Merc is the codebase that was ripped off).

No, but a statement is pretty compelling.

Logical fallacy. The fact that you support illegal and immoral activities does not mean that that everyone else does, and the fact that certain muds have no respect for the work of others does not mean that no muds do.

No, I think it's quite clear where it comes from, and I find it remarkable that you could so mindlessly support a mud which - in the words of one of the original Diku team - "was indeed one of the major reasons i stopped contributing to the community, and found other places to spend my energy"

I cordially agree with KaVir.

STOP IT!

Go flame about Medievia on one of the boards that's already flaming. There's no use making EVERY thread about the same (resolved) issue. Knock it off.

Whine..Whine... if ya can't do the time...don't do the crime. Don't post or start threads here if you're unhappy with the responses!!

It would seem that no rules are being broken, and people are not going to stop arguing/discussing just because it offends your sensibilities.

It'd be great if everyone always got along all the time, but many other forums on the net are the same way, and especially this forum and this particular subject. If you can't handle that, perhaps you should stop reading the posts here, and spare the futile attempts at nannying.

*point signature* to seemingly everyone's distaste, I am from Achaea. It was my first and favourite MUD... and I was quite recently accepted into Armageddon. You guys?

And thank you, GuruPlayer and PhoenixFlare, but I never said I was enforcing the rules, and again if you don't like what I have to say then ignore me as you do what I'm actually saying. Every thread doesn't need to be about Medievia, okay, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that would like to see a few threads of sanctuary that do NOT end up being about that whole situation. Yes, blah blah, if I don't like what the forums say then leave. I'm sure you would like that. But spare me, your conflict is on other threads, not this one. The response to what I originally said had nothing to do with the conflict, either, so it is essentially way off topic and thus I humbly request of you forum lords that you take your argument elsewhere. Thanks ^_^

The issue was NEVER resolved.  Mercthievia is STILL HERE.  Just because you support that *** Mihaly in all of his ideas doesn't mean that we can't discuss issues that go against his doctrines.  If we just stopped fighting, Mercthievia would win.  And that wouldn't be a fitting end.

It's spelled propaganda.

Yeah, if you stopped fighting (which apparently just means screaming and whining a lot without actually doing anything tangible), all the progress you've made at stopping Medievia might be reversed. That progress, as far as I can tell, consists of precisely one thing: Giving them free exposure. Well done.

--matt

the_logos: Yeah, if you stopped fighting (which apparently just means screaming and whining a lot without actually doing anything tangible), all the progress you've made at stopping Medievia might be reversed. That progress, as far as I can tell, consists of precisely one thing: Giving them free exposure. Well done.

But that's not always the case, the_logos. For example, when you were bribing players to vote for your games, people posted complaints, and the rules were changed to make it illegal.

Synozeer made a decision that isn't popular with a number of parties. They're allowed to express their disagreement in an attempt to make him reconsider the step. Also, they're allowed to make sure that discerning players are aware of Medievia's theft, and pressure Medievia to start taking responsible steps such as restoring the credits for the people that designed the code of which their present code is a derivative (by any legal definition).

Finally, you may believe that all publicity is good publicity, but not everyone subscribes to that theory. More importantly, not all games would want players that are swayed by that kind of oh-look-shiny-object phenomenon.

Yep. Nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, people have been crying about Medievia for a decade now. Any progress? Are they suffering? No? One might wonder if one's course of action is a joke in that case.


Of course they're allowed to. I'm just pointing out that they've been entirely ineffective in stopping Medievia from "winning" (whatever that means. Someone else's language, not mine) and that after a decade of futile efforts they may consider trying to -do- something instead of just complaining.

It's not what I believe. It's what I know.

--matt

Yes. The information campaign has been pretty successful - the Medievia supporters (and even the staff) have given up trying to claim that the mud is original, and have instead moved on to the "who cares" viewpoint.

I'm not sure how you can call it successful. The game continues. Like most games its player base wanes and bounces back, but it's doing great. There are new players everyday, many, I'm sure in large part to the controversy generated here.
One thing about the Net, it's nothing if not anonymous. So you can berate people's morality based on what you consider to be good or bad, but in the end, many are going to go where they can have fun, where they will have a lot of player interaction and where the world is huge and original.
Not only that, but Medievia has one of the most innovative interactive enviroments on the net today. Complaining and whining will do very little to dim that success.

Because , and that's exactly what it's done.

You remind me of the little fat kid who claims that McDonalds is the best food in the world.

Innovative? I've seen more innovative stock muds!

I know I should stay away from all this as I said I would, but I just need to say a few things.

First off, KaVir, when was the last time you played Medievia?  Who are you to say how innovative or not it is?  I would think that you should not be making judgements about a game until you've spent AT LEAST a week playing it.  Otherwise, you are just pulling facts out of nowhere.  I would think that Jeena, a person who has played Medievia for quite some time, would know a lot more about the game than you, someone who probably hasn't even played the game at all, ever.  And don't tell me you've logged in for 5 minutes and know all about the game.  You cannot know how in-depth the game is until you've played it until at least second class.  If you've done that in the past month, then fine, you may have a clue.  If not, then you have no idea what you are talking about.

In addition, I have to reiterate what Matt has said.  Thanks for all the free publicity.  Our new character creations have been through the roof since the "flame wars" have started and our amount of players online has also seen a dramatic increase.  So, have fun, keep it up!

Speak of the devil, literally!

While I may not like Mercthievia, I have to agree with Soleil's point about playing the game before badmouthing it. For instance, I played Achaea, and it was a fairly good game. I just don't agree with the style in which it is run (semi-for profit), so that is why I dislike it. I have never played Mercthievia, so I don't make any judgments about the quality of play. I only dislike it because of the code theft.

Belated defense against an accusation... I never said I supported or didn't support Medievia. I've never played it, and as has been stated several...several times before, I don't know the whole issue (and don't care to). But they're right, you know, you're giving them free publicity. My isn't our wrath backfiring?

At any rate ...I give up. Seriously.

*yells over the noise* hey Jeena, wanna talk somewhere else? This thread has been destroyed. I'm up for going to find some civility...

<3
Kopri

It's utterly irrelevent whether I post or not, as they use the IRE tactic of getting supporters to keep replying to their adverts to bump them to the top (yet another reason why the few high-signal threads get ignored).

I saw the Medthievia code a few years ago, and it was little more than a hacked up Merc with features that are mostly available in snippet form. If they've added anything innovative since that time, they'd done a good job of hiding it.

No, not hiding, working, programming, developing. We have re-emerged recently because Medievia V is about to be released. The code you saw 4-5 years ago is NOT the code that exists today.

Huge chunks of the code were taken directly from stock Merc and it was called 100% original by Mercthievia. Now they say that their mud is 100% original, or just as original as they said it was back when it was heavily stock Merc. Except now they just stop people from looking at it to see if it is stock Merc or not.

As for turning every thread into one about Mercthievia, it was one of those moralless Mercthievia supporters who brought Mercthievia into this thread.

As for the publicity, the kind of people that go "Hey, Mercthievia's been mentioned a lot cause it stole code and ruined the mud communtiy. Yay! I wanna go play a game like that!" may be attracted to Mercthievia by all those posts, but who cares? Those are the type of players I certainly wouldn't want to play with in my muds.

So, your response to direct civil commentary is insult and inflammatory remarks.
I'm sorry, but while you may tell everyone I'm a "mindless" follower/supporter I must here tell you that I am not. I was not asked to come here, and I didn't tell anyone that I was coming here. I did, however, find muchof the jabs and snippy nastiness to be entertaining and decided to follow along.
Obviously some of you are on a higher moral plane than the rest of us. Thankfully, you're out there to remind us of that on a regular basis.
In the mean time, before you slam, bash, and fry something you've never tried...try it. Med V has features you can't find anywhere else. There are unique zones that are always being developed for all levels and skills of players.
Now, since this conversation has digressed into personal attack...I think I'll find kopri and have a conversation with someone pleasant.

You mean shameless stealing? I'd rather not.

I wish everyone would just shut up about this.

Despite 10 years of 'successful' protesting, Medievia is a solid third on the rankings. I wouldn't have given two hoots about them frankly, but with all this annoying bull**** that is being toted around I logged on to check them out.

KaVir, you're not driving players away from Medievia. If anything, I'd say you're driving them to it merely out of curiousity. The vast majority of players couldn't give a **** about code theft if the game was good, and for all your ranting on here of recent times you've only served one purpose: The promotion of your enemies.

-H

They started out in third when they re-appeared, too, and then slowly slid down to bounce between 6th-8th over the next couple days.

I hate to be pedantic, but trying to prove anything by stating they're in a "solid" 3rd when the voting just reset yesterday is silly - there's only 31 votes between 3rd and 8th at the moment, for example.

Maybe they'd be doing worse if this whole thing hadn't come up again. Maybe they'd be doing better. Nobody really has any way to know for sure at this point.

We are not "semi for profit." We are a for-profit enterprise. Either you are or you aren't. You can't be a little bit for-profit anymore than you can be a little bit non-profit. You are are or you aren't.