Here's a little example of what happens if, for instance, you're playing a low level character and you happen to find some high level equipment:

[code] Originally made of a fine barre gray granite, it seems likely that only
that fact has allowed it to stand against the decaying swamp with only a few
stains on its surface. The apparently thick stone is set into the ground
masterfully disallowing entry to the slippery green algae that permeates the
area outside the walls. Loud drips and splashes echo and reverberate all
around giving the distinct impression that despite the receding water there
is more at work to keep these halls dry.
Obvious exits; e s w
The severed finger of a dwarven acolyte is here.
The severed hand of a dwarven acolyte is here.
( 7) A scrumptious looking steak is here.
A bulky creature with red hued skin stands in defense of the shrine.
A midnight-blue atyrros soars in from the south.
the finger of a dwarven acolyte decomposes.
the hand of a dwarven acolyte decomposes.
Your pulse slows to normal.
A sandy-winged male sprite soars in from the south.
A sandy-winged male sprite looks at you.
A sandy-winged male sprite is much more powerful than you.
You are carrying;
47 copper coins
52 silver coins
241 gold coins
2 platinum coins
2 obsidian coins
a barrel of water
a large deep purple knapsack (brand new)
A sandy-winged male sprite soars south.
You put 47 copper coins in a large deep purple knapsack.
You put 52 silver coins in a large deep purple knapsack.
You put 241 gold coins in a large deep purple knapsack.
You put 2 platinum coins in a large deep purple knapsack.
You put 2 obsidian coins in a large deep purple knapsack.
You are carrying;
a barrel of water
a large deep purple knapsack (brand new)
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Got a sec?'
You say 'Sure.'
Someone has transferred you.
This is a very quiet room, a good place in which to get things done.
Obvious exits;
This is a very quiet room, a good place in which to get things done.
Obvious exits;
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Bit surprised at what you're wearing, coin, etc'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Can you explain for me?'
You say 'You shouldn't be with the amount of hoarding various cabals do.'
You say 'Dig around cabal headquarters long enough and you come up with good stuff.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Which cabal? Not sure what you mean.'
You are using;
<worn on finger> a wolf's head signet ring (brand new)
<worn around neck> a dark amulet set with a fiery sword (brand new)
<worn on body> a suit of dull black plate (brand new)
<worn on head> a dull black sallet (brand new)
<worn on legs> a pair of glistening hinged leg greaves (brand new)
<worn on feet> a pair of glistening sabatons (brand new)
<worn on hands> a pair of glistening hourglass gauntlets (brand new)
<worn on arms> a pair of glistening rerebraces (brand new)
<worn about body> a wolf's head cloak (awful)
<worn about waist> a steel fauld (brand new)
<worn around wrist> an iron bracer (brand new)
<both hands> a barbed scythe (brand new)
You say 'In my instance, the hammer cabal. I used the 'dig' command in the area around their HQ, and came up with the scythe, the plate, the sallet, and the amulet.'
You say 'As well as a healthy amount of money.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Do you have any alts?'
You say 'I kept it because I dropped it on... Yes, I do.'
You say 'Because I dropped it on the beach.'
You say 'Before I quit out, that is.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Could you name your alts for me?'
You say 'Ragnor, and Ulnar.'
You say 'I'll probably drop them for this character, though.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Quit and relog for me, please.'
You say 'Sure.'
You are using;
<worn on finger> a wolf's head signet ring (brand new)
<worn around neck> a dark amulet set with a fiery sword (brand new)
<worn on body> a suit of dull black plate (brand new)





(I remove all the higher level things that will be 'stolen by thieves' on logout, and quit out. This is removed by the quit clear-screen)
































































%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%| Welcome to Shattered Kingdoms |%
%| |%
%| - Shattered Kingdoms is a mud where role-playing is emphasized. |%
%| Pkilling is allowed based on RP. Multiplaying is forbidden. |%
%| - All players are required to read and understand HELP RULES and |%
%| all entries listed under 'See Also' at the bottom of them. |%
%| - New players should start by reading HELP NEWBIE and by reading all |%
%| of the newbie boards in the starting schools. |%
%| - Each character must have an adjective and detailed description by |%
%| the time they are Novice status. Refer to HELP DESCRIPTION. |%
%| - Characters with more than 30 days of inactivity may be deleted |%
%| without notice. Storage characters will be castrated. |%
%| - Check the NEWS LIST each time you log in to watch for changes. |%
%| |%
%| - The Shattered Kingdoms Forums are also available on our website; |%
%| |%
%| - Please keep in mind that this game may contain content not |%
%| suitable for children. |%
%| MOTD Updated; 26 Sept 2004 |%
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Welcome to Shattered Kingdoms.
This is a very quiet room, a good place in which to get things done.
Obvious exits;
You say '...'
You say 'Um'
You are using;
<worn on finger> a wolf's head signet ring (brand new)
<worn about body> a wolf's head cloak (awful)
<worn about waist> a steel fauld (brand new)
<worn around wrist> an iron bracer (brand new)
You ask 'Why'd you yank the stuff?'
(the immortal involved had picked up everything from the ground)
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Not quite sure you understood me.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; But apparently thieves found the equipment in this room.'
You say 'Oh my god.'
You say 'Yay, now I'm unarmed with none of the stuff I had.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; You're young - plenty of opportunities for exploring and finding new stuff.'
You ask 'Is this part of the new 'heaven forbid anybody should find any gear' policy?'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Did I stop you finding it?'
You say 'After the fact, yes.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Did I stop you wearing it after you found it?'
You say 'I now have no weapons and no armor.'
You say 'Oh wait, no, I have a steel fauld.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Did you avoid the code that is meant to return it to the game for players who are more appropriate?'

You say 'I wouldn't put it quite like that myself. I merely left it in the game. There are plenty of risks involved in You say 'For example, someone else finding it, a crash, whatever else.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Am I rather suspicious that a character who should have no knowledge of the game knew the location of Hammer's HQ and that equipment is usually buried outside it? Especially given you have an alt in the Hammer?'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; You haven't lost anything permanent - you haven't even lost experience.'
You say 'And suspicion is enough to make me spend another several hours that'll need to go into re-equipping.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; I suggest you learn from this.'
You ask 'Learn what?'
You ask 'Never pick up good items?'
You ask 'Never have alts?'
You say 'There's nothing I can do about this, but I want you to know that I think it sucks.'
You say 'Oh, great.'
You say 'I just lost my pet from logging out, too.'
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Imagine how many other players think you sucked for cheating by not quitting with the equipment you wouldn't normally be able to keep.'
You say 'That isn't cheating, dude.'
You ask 'People drop things and pick them up later all the time. Are you going to go around junking all items lying on the ground?'
The ground shifts violently.

Someone has transferred you.
The atmosphere is thick and close, pregnant with the musk of spilt
ale, wood smoke and cooked food, heavy with the noise of boisterous
conversation, song and laughter. Sawdust is spread liberally over the
worn slate flagstones of the floor, upon which heavy wooden tables and
benching press together, crowded with patrons that compete for the
attentions of the serving wenches that move between them juggling
platters of steaming food and flagons of ale. A fire crackles in the
hearth set beneath a wide stone chimney brest in the north wall. An open
wooden staircase in the south climbs up to the rooms above.
Obvious exits; e(closed) w(closed) u ne(closed)
A sign by the door reads "Keep yer Horses OUT!".
A cork notice board hangs on the east wall.
A hand-pump is here to dispense water.
A delicate female sprite is flying here.
A grim-faced male human is standing here with a rigid posture.
A silver-haired male elf is resting here.
A female griffon is resting here.
A dashing male human is resting here.
A diaphanous female elf is resting here.
A serving wench moves deftly through the taproom serving drinks.
A small boy works here collecting glasses and clearing the tables.
A thuggish-looking giant glowers here, watching the customers for trouble.
A brutish-looking man stands impassively at the door watching the crowd.
A dashing male human says 'Wanted to know if I could get that rapeir.'
A diaphanous female elf looks at you.
A delicate female sprite looks at you.
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; Have a nice day.'
A dashing male human says 'Err rapier.'
A diaphanous female elf smiles at you.
A silver-haired male elf stops resting.
A diaphanous female elf says to you 'Hello.'
A silver-haired male elf starts to concentrate.
A dashing male human looks at Captain Stern Waish.
A silver-haired male elf utters the words, 'oculoinfra kadagru'.
pray (OOC) I didn't want to get dropped here.
You pray to the gods for help.
The door to the inn is closed.
You open the door to the inn.
You walk west.
You are in the cobbled courtyard of the Hart and Rose. A high brick wall
separates the yard from the main roads to the east and south. Set into
the wall is a tall, wrought iron gate that opens out onto the Cross to
the southwest. Verdant green ivy, tangled with the sweet, golden blooms
of honeysuckle and rambling red Taslamaran rose clamber over the dark
timbers and whitewashed wattle and daub fascia of the Inn that looms in
from the east side of the courtyard. An oak door leads into the taproom,
noise and light spilling out into the yard occasionally as somebody
comes or goes. Shadows move behind the expensive, opaque glazing of the
ground-floor windows, indicative of the inn's heavy trade.
It's snowing lightly, freezing, and very windy.
Obvious exits; e ne sw
A noble, white horse is resting here.
A grey horse stands here, tail flicking in a slow, steady rhythm.
You close the door to the inn.
You walk northeast.
The air is thick with the musky smell of horses, the floor is strewn
with fresh straw. The back of this wooden building is split into
separate stalls, each of a size to hold a single horse comfortably. A
ladder leads up into the hay loft above.
Obvious exits; u sw
A stable-boy is here mucking out the stalls.
You walk up.
You are on a wooden platform above the stables. The space is close and
private, thick with dust and the heady scent of the hay bales that are
stacked up here in orderly piles. A ladder leads back down to the stable
floor below.
Obvious exits; d
An immortal whispers in your ear, 'Out-Of-Character; I don't recall asking you.'[/quote]

So, let's recap. Four out of a possible seventeen items worn by my character have been found lying around abandoned by a player group. I pick them up and wear them (wouldn't anybody?) An imm takes offense, strips my character naked, and then in an "RP" mud dumps my character (still naked after an ooc situation) into the middle of the busiest room in the mud (a room that is several RL hours journey from where I was picked up, all based on some suspicion. Fantastic.

I later found out that the immortal involved then gave all the equipment he took from me to the high follower of his religion in character (despite the obvious ooc nature of our conversation), warning him about my character, all because of some ooc chip on his shoulder.

I'm afraid I have to suggest to people trying to find a new mud that they should keep looking if their eyes happen to fall on Shattered Kingdoms.

Well, let me see if I can break down both sides.

OK, now that we've established their basic format, let's look at the example.

Stop!  I'm confused here.  How is it that I know it's the severed finger of a dwarven acolyte?  I guess from the size, I could assume it's former owner was a dwarf.  But it could have been a child.  But the acolyte part?  Do all acolytes (or just the dwarven ones) have a tattoo on each finger?

OK, those interesting points aside, let us continue....

D-amn! A barrel of water?  You must be both strong and thirsty.  I know I have to **** like a racehorse after drinking half a case of Barq's Root Beer in a single sitting (damned good stuff that Barq's) .  *shrug*  Back on topic....

I'm confused again.  You decided to dig around a building?  You dropped stuff on the beach?  What an *interesting* life you lead.

And why would someone bury stuff outside a building instead of hiding it inside?  Lost their key?  Claustrophobia?  Cross-bred with a gopher?

Man, those thieves were fast.  Poor guy only went to the bathroom.  Of course, after drinking an entire barrel of water, he really had to go for a while....

Would those be players who dig holes and hide stuff there instead of dropping it on the beach?

I'm incredibly suspicious of people who bury stuff outside their HQ.  Wouldn't it make more sense to lock it inside?

emote looks at the HQ.
emote notices the big piles of fresh dirt outside the HQ.

I'd say he gained one.

Never kennel your pet at Dr. Kevorkian's Pet Cemetary & Kennel.

Why couldn't he keep it?  Cause he didn't dig a hole?

Well, seems to me that the problem isn't only the staff member, though they were a bit rude there at the end.  The problem seems to be with this curious world where people dig holes outside their HQ instead of placing it inside and other people with incredibly large bladders walk around lugging barrels of water with them.  It could stand to have some significant modifications made to both code and policy which would avoid the unfortunate issues of this particular case.

1.  No "alts".
2.  How about equipment, clothes, what-have-you, saving on the character who quits?
3.  Give Hammer a key so they can get inside their HQ instead of digging holes and burying stuff outside.
4.  Somebody find that poor dwarven acolyte and give him a hand.
5.  Hire more law enforcement.  If a poor guy can have the clothes off his back stolen while he uses the bathroom, it's not a good neighborhood.
6.  Stay in the shade.  If you have to carry around a barrel of water to avoid dehydration, that's no environment to be in.  Get inside in the AC.
7.  Spay and neuter your pets so they won't have too many offspring that'll need be put to sleep when you log out.

These are only a few small reasons I won't play near-stock MUDs or play H&S again.  Honestly, what'd you expect?

Take care,

Jason

Ok, I may have read it wrong. But I think I gathered two things:

*You have a high level alt in the Hammer clan. Since you have a character in that clan, you knew that for some reason the players bury their high level equipment in their backyard.

*Instead of the equipment "getting stolen" when you logged off, you dropped the equipment, using that to get over on the code that prevents lowbies from having top level equipment.

Well, I don't really agree with how the Immortal handled it, it couldn't been a bit nicer. But, then I'm a overly nice person. Also, if you were trying to cheat the code, the Imm had a reason for saying something to you.

Ok, that raises this question. Why was that equipment buried instead of being in the clan hall in a chest or something? Do players normally bury their equipment so that "theives" won't get to them while they are offline?

Or am I completely off?

You cheated, you whiny bonehead - you used IC info that your alt character knew, & obtained high-lvl eq for your lowbie alt. I'm amazed at the mercy of the IMM who just took the eq as punishment.  Like he said, you didn't lose any exp. You should have had all your characters deleted, & you should have been banned from the MUD!!

I just love cheaters tellin' the world how they were wronged by the IMMs & stay away from the MUD.  It looks like this MUD has an alert & merciful IMM staff, & is just the kind of MUD honest players should be looking for.

While the Imm could have been a little less less snippy at the end, I'll agree that he was pretty on track by punishing you. Alternate characters are a privelege I dislike intensely, and I'm glad Armageddon has the account system to eliminate this.

But, apparantly Shattered Kingdoms graciously allows you other chars, expecting you to be mature enough to maintain character seperation in an RP-enforced environment. You disappointed them there, and they punished you for it. Meh.

1) Alts are allowable in shattered kingdoms, no point in bitching to me about that.
2) All cabals are wary of hiding their things in their HQs, because other cabals frequently raid them in some glorified CTF.
3) I did have a character in the Hammer cabal. That had nothing to do with pot luck in happening across gear there. Yes, I know to search near cabals. So does every experienced player. I outright deny any claims of cheating.

This sounds like an issue between you and the staff of Shattered Kingdoms. I'm not sure why you think it's an issue the larger community would care about, or what you hope to accomplish here. If you're hoping to slander their name, we've all read enough threads of "they did X to me, and now I'm mad!" (legitimate or not) to know that there are several sides to every story, and that setting up court here isn't productive.

If you don't like the way they run their game, you can always vote with your feet.

What about using IC info known to your high lvl character to help your lowbie alt didn't you understand?? That's cheating, & using the sad whine - everbody knows it -is no excuse.  You got caught cheating, & the IMM was merciful in his punishment.  You're not going to get any sympathy here, so go whine somewhere else cheater!

To be fair, what kind of information may be carried over from one character to another is a cultural thing which varies from MUD to MUD.

I suggest to you that on this one, the retention of this particular kind of knowledge is not especially taboo.

Direct quote from Shattered Kingdoms' help file "Help Rules" under the sub-section #2 No Multi-playing: "Any player is allowed to have multiple charaters, but no transfers of equipment, money, or INFORMATION (my caps) between them are allowed.  Violations will result in deletion for all involved characters."

You sir are a cheater, & were treated with kid gloves when their IMM just took the equipment away instead of deleting both of your characters.  My "chip" is I hate cheaters who post flames against IMMs who catch them cheating, & whine because they were caught.

Now I haven't played Shattered Kingdoms before I logged on to read their rules, so I don't know the game, but I do know how to play on MUDs honestly, & I know cheating when I see it.

I'm going to bust on both of you.

Guru first: Yes, the rules do say that, but in practice, this game isn't played that way. It's considered okay to carry at the very least your game mechanics / navigation type knowledge from one character to another. Certainly everyone not a first-time newbie plays SK this way, including any and all of the staff that plays mortal characters.

I don't in the least have a problem with this, but reading the rules helpfiles on a mud you haven't played rarely tells the whole story, including cultural differences. Even the players of two very similar muds often have radically different ideas of what good/bad roleplay is, for example.

Jardek next: While this game has definitely seen a decline in players, it's a big stretch to say there were ever 100 concurrent. Honestly, you can find worse things to pick on if you really want to than this bust.

Isn't Shattered Realms a completely different game from Shattered Kingdoms?

Sounds like that is illegal too. Jardek, I don't see where you are right here.

Sorry, my error, have have edited my earlier post to reflect that help file was from Shattered Kingdoms.

You've made your point. Let's not pursue it further and fan a flamewar, then.

If you think a staff member on a game was out of line, take it up with the administration of that game. But don't make muckraking threads on this forum-- it's not of general interest to the community, and not the purpose of the Advertising For Players forum.

I'd have made you watch me delete your clan character and then slay your new guy and eat his corpse, shortly after introducing myself saying that. AR take cabals very seriously, we dont even let people make alts in other cabals. Can't see why you're giving these guys a hard time when they went so easy on you.

To be on the safe side, you should have made sure you DON'T have a character in their clan (not even an inactive one) before you began poaching their eq for your new character that's nothing to do with the clan. Obviously, you don't think its a big deal, but the imms did, and probably everyone else in that clan would too. MUDs are communities not just hack n' slash collect-eq-kill games like d2.

Hey now, let's not poach this perfectly good don't-play-SK flamethread and turn it into a don't-play-AR flamethread.

Seriously, y'all are assuming things work similar in this game to the game you play, and that's about on the level of assuming there's an extra point conversion in tennis.

So, what is your relationship to this MUD? Are you a player, or an IMM?  Because my read of the IMM's action is that what was done was cheating, & the player was punished for it.  So your claim that the game isn't played that way is obviously incorrect from the IMM's standpoint, & even in the game of tennis, if the line judge says it's out, it's out, even if the player says it's in.

I play Shattered Kingdoms.

The rules are pretty clear. But even if no multiplaying was involved, the character was using a "workaround" to cheat the code that is intended to keep newbie-level characters from hoarding high level equipment. SK allows players to use whatever it is they pick up, be it newbie-level equipment or grandmaster level equipment... unlike some other muds, where you can't even pick up something that is "too powerful" for you. However, the mud is coded so that when you log out, there is a chance that equipment that is higher-level than your character will vanish (the IC explanation is that thieves set upon you in the night) and reappear in its original location. I think the intent is twofold: to protect newbies from being killed for any high-level equipment they find (there are rules protecting newbies as well), and to ensure that the higher level equipment sooner or later is available to the higher level characters on the game.

Burying or dropping equipment to find later in order to get around this is an OOC action, and not one that a character would likely IC do. I think most players on SK would regard that as cheating because it is an abuse of code, intended to give an advantage to one's character that the game clearly does not intend.

All things considered, if it had been me, I would be thanking my lucky stars my character hadn't been deleted for abusing code. The other muds I've played wouldn't have been so tolerant.

Just my own opinion on it.

I really and honestly didnt want to get into this thread, but
I keep reading about how someone is working around code.

Now, from what I understand, if you have higher level
equipment and or items on your player, and that said
player is a lower level than said item, they have a chance
to lose that item on logout.

Now, there are also commands to allow said player to drop
and or hide these items, to either give away, and or re-gain
at a later time (If this isnt the reason for the commands then
why have them?).

Being that anyone can obtain said items, just finding them
is the key, it is almost equaly random to lose said equipment
and or items, be it from dropping/hidding them to keeping
them on your player.

As to working around the code, as many of you have stated,
perhaps a re-tooling of the commands to hide and or "dig"
(as it has been called) should be made so that lower level
players can not hide or "dig" spots to hold equipment and
items at a higher level than their current player level.

I will agree that the player in question that started this fourm
thread in fact did share the knowledge of where items are in
generaly kept hidden, and this _could_ be considered a form
of Multi-Playing (by sharing gained knowledge); Then how is
the Said Alt to find equipment and items IC?

You cant expect a player of say five years to act like a
complete new player, and throw basic item locations out
the window as if it never existed.

If you dont want to add restrictions onto the ability to hide
and or drop items, then limit the player to only have one
char.

These of course are of my own thoughts.

Hmmm, I am not really understanding the question you are asking, Kinnith.

There is code in the game for burying something. Be that the corpse of your fallen enemy, a piece of equipment you don't want to meet someone in person to give them, or the fabulous forty copper pieces you just collected. People even bury equipment in the case that they are going into a situation where they think they will likely die.

But there is a distinction between these things, which are all IC reasons for burying things, and the knowledge that "if I bury this, then the items which are truly too high-level for me to hold on to will NOT repop on the mobs which usually hold them (and which I am not currently strong enough to defeat), but will still be available for me to get, since I'm burying them in this difficult to reach and out of the way place before I log off and trigger this code feature".

This is an OOC response to code, not an IC response to IC pressures of the game. It is clearly the game designer's intent that a very young character be allowed to use the most powerful armor in the game, and also that the same character doesn't have much chance to hang on to it for long. The code supports that. This player is trying to thwart it by doing something that, as has been pointed out by others on this thread, there aren't good IC reasons to do.

Starling, if you want to talk about IC reason to do this as
a lower level player, burying high level equipment and
or items, there is quite a very vaild reason to do so.

So that they dont lose them. For every OOC action
there is almost always an IC action.

For Example:

OOC - When you log off, you have a chance to lose your
equipment or items that are of a higher level than
your current player.

IC - During the night, thiefs have been known to raid
players that can not hold onto powerful items.

Each way there is a reason and action to do such.

Hiding equipment and or Items to keep them, is not as
completely OOC as you might state.

While hiding a piece of equipment to give to an alt, is 100 percent OOC, hiding a piece of equipment so that the "thieves"
cant take said equipment or item when the player leaves is
IC, as to prevent it from happening.

IC I would bury all of my higher level items, untill the next
time I came back, I would take them again, and wear them,
so that the thieves would have nothing to take from me. But
at the same time, what if someone finds my hidden spot?

OOC would be, hey I dont want to lose these items so ill
just hide them.

Pretty much the OOC and IC reasons are the same, but just
put into another light. If the game doesnt wish to have players
doing this to keep equipment or items, they shouldnt allow it;
Because it can be both done in the OOC and IC sense.

Oh and the question I was asking is, in the basic form.

If you are not allowed to hide/bury items to get at a later
time, why are you allowed to do it at all? Are Players at
the same level as the equipment or item allowed to do this?

Allowing a lower level player to use a higher level equipment
or item, and then not allowing them a means to keep it, and
or denying them the means, is pointless to have them be able
to do it.

I have played on a mud where if an item was too high-level for you, you were simply not able to touch it. The point of allowing low-level characters to use whatever they pick up or find or are given, so far as I can tell (and I'm just a player, not an IMM) is that the character can enjoy items they find or are given, while still making sure that that same character (who could be a true newbie to the mud) isn't targeted for killing because of their elite equipment.

Now, if I bury my equipment and walk away, and attack a character I am pretty sure will kill me, then come back later to collect my equipment... no code is particularly involved in that. There is no code I am deliberately avoiding in order to keep my equipment. It is essentially the same as giving it to a friend, though likely less safe, so long as I stay logged in.

But if I bury equipment in order to be able to AVOID the code that is intended to return that equipment into the general population, then I am abusing code, because I'm exploiting a known loophole in it. It's not possible, or at least practical, to code a mud to prevent every abuse. That's why rules exist.

I am also by my actions creating a situation where new characters will be killed for their equipment, because the amount of any type of equipment is limited. If the behavior described were practiced by all, then the entire protection the "thieves" ironically provided to newbies would be lost.

And if it should not be practiced by all, then those who practice it are gaining an unearned advantage, simply because of their knowledge of this loophole in code.

Im done talking with you in this thread, What you just stated
right there, is exactly what the thread starter did. While he is
not the same level as the equipment or items, its what he did.

What if he had a "friend" hold it? Would that be another case?
You would more than likely say so, as to that "friend" would
more than likely be able to hold onto said equipment and
items without worry of it being taken.

Oh, and having a friend hold said items or equipment when
you go to fight another player, Or if you bury or hide them, that you know will more than likely kill you, is quite working
around the code, unless your game does not belive in player looting.

Please enjoy viewing the game from the current angle, of
a one sided looking glass; That only bends when you see
fit to allow it.

Hmmm, you're taking this very personally, when it's not intended so. I have no objection to people giving their equipment to others to hold, because that doesn't effectively remove it from the game. If you have a friend of much higher level than you, who consistently lends you items to use while you're in the game, lucky you. I wouldn't consider that cheating, so you're wrong about me and my outlook on the mud. In the end, though, what I think is cheating doesn't matter, even if 90 percent of the people I've talked to from the mud agree that it's cheating as well.

If you think the situation described is all good and doesn't constitute abuse of code, that's certainly your prerogative. I see it differently, and clearly the IMMstaff on Shattered Kingdoms, the final word on the subject, sees it differently as well.

Directed to address this thread by others, since I myself am no longer an active TMS forum visitor --

As an Immortal on SK, I only wish to state that this player did not follow the procedures of complaint - neither raising this issue either with more senior immortals, the implementor nor did he initiate discussion on our own website-forum regarding the topic.  

We welcome any new players to our game and should anyone wish to ask questions of our rules and how we implement them, we have both a newbie forum and a gameplay forum as well as contact emails for all staff within the game.  We're in the TMS database of course, hovering between positions 10 and 30, so if you're interested you can find us - I won't spam the URL here.

In closing, thanks to TMS for your service to the MUD community - not enough people recognise the real value of your what you guys do.

[edit addendum: posted in an unofficial capacity; I am not the public spokesperson for SK; merely presenting a point of view on this topic]

Sorry, I sent this log and my complaint about the matter, including the fact that the immortal involved then gave every piece of equipment confiscated (ICly) to the high follower of his own faith, who I have reason to believe is an ooc friend of his (they used to play characters together) directly to the implementor, who then proceeded to do nothing about the incident.

Sorry that you seem to be totally misinformed, gth. I only wish that you weren't.

Oh, and as for the website - your own - in question, the immortal in charge of confiscating the equipment I'd found is also the main moderator on the shattered kingdoms forums. It's a pretty good gig he's got going for himself.

You still don't get it..."finding" equipment isn't the issue.  You didn't "find" it, you knew it was there because you had a high-level character who belonged in the clan where the equipment was buried, & knew that fellow clan members buried equipment there.  So you used clan knowledge known to your high-level char to have your lowbie alt help himself to some high-lvl equipment.  That is cheating, you bonehead, and as stated by myself & other posters, the IMM was merciful in only taking away the equipment, & not deleting your butt!  As far as your claim re the IMM giving away the equipment, who cares, they own the MUD, & if they decide to turn the equipment into butterflies & have them fly out some mob's butt, so be it.  If you don't like it, walk.  I'm sure nobody on that MUD is gonna miss you...

(In case some of you are confused reading this , this post was in response to a question Jardek posed to me in his previous post that he has since edited out... He asked me if I thought finding equipment was cheating, then what about the IMM giving away the confiscated equipment to his personal friends on the MUD.)

A small excerpt from one of our own helpfiles:

"In fact, if you *ever* have a problem with any immortal write a note about it to the implementors, and we will investigate the situation and punish as necessary. If one of the implementors was the problem, then write about it to the others, of course. If you have a problem with all of the implementors, then you'd probably be happier finding another MUD to play on."

Jardek, you clearly don't like how this game enforces their rules.  We get that.  However, no one on these forums knows enough about the context, precedence, etc. to make an informed decision about how that game should enforce its own rules.  More importantly, none of us can do anything about the decision.  If the senior staff of that game sides with their staff member's decision on this case, that's their right.  You can vote with your feet and leave, or you can accept their decision and continue to play there(*).  But complaining on the TMS "Advertising For Players" forum is neither productive nor appropriate.

Knock it off.

(*) If they let you.  Whether or not you're correct, no MUD is forced to accept you as a customer.

Sounds more to me like the World of Warcraft effect hitting Shattered Kingdoms.

Most trolls grossly overexaggerate the effect of their departure, as well as the degree to which other people agree.