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Shane · 04-21-2006, 03:31 PM

Interesting.

There appears to be a reflex-purist school of thought in mud combat and while I understand and applaud the attempt to find ways for people who all like that sort of thing to be able to find one another and play in a situation where they can be largely sure no one is cheating with a script, there are also a number of people like myself whose typing speed and accuracy will never approach the level to be competative in such a situation. For such people, being able to shortcut with scripts is handy, and I think that is a big part of the success of the IRE system popularity. Specifically allowing a lot of scripting allows the widest array of people possible to participate. I can commiserate because, you know, if I wanted to test my reaction time I would be out shooting skeet or something. =) So when you mud to rp and yet what you want to rp is an effective warrior, yet you don't type 130 wpm, well... you can understand the frustration level there.

I also distinguish between botting and PvP scripting. Artificially testing to see if people are botting your mobs (or other non combat skills in muds who swing that way) with ascii art and so forth comes across to me sort of like saying, "yes our game play is often monotonous and could best be played by a robot, but by golly if you want to hang out here, rp, explore, and enjoy the good points we have, you will by golly pay the price in hours and hours of consicously and continually focusing yourself on mind numbing drudgery that the rest of us have." Maybe I will go play some other game then? And yet that is the norm, not the exception. So I am stuck.

Seriously, for me mud playing is often an experience in sort of losing myself in a sort of detached state of consciousness, sort of like solitaire, or, better yet, Sim City, and if making a script or botting a repetative action helps me a little, I am not sure why people choose to be upset with me over it. I am not dissing people who play text based games to test their reflexes and quick reactions, and especially quick thinking skills that no video game or physical sport can really rival, but at the same time, to me, making combat rely too heavily on a natural and/or hard won ability to react with typed words in split seconds begins to make a mud very niche-marketesque.

I've played Coffeemud a little and it would be interesting to see how pk would work out on it, and what sets of startup decicions for that codebase would lead to what sorts of PvP. I say this because of the fairly large number of various skills, spells and so forth. It just seems like it would be such a large variety of possibilities that it could be very challenging for a PvP based game, if properly run.

Coffeemud is more or less designed for folks to be able to customise it themselves. Last time I piddled with it, I could not get it to do total skill based progression without levels and classes, so I dropped off of it for a while, but they may have even fixed that by now.

Personally, I'd like to see a move towards just accepting scripting and botting, or else as has been mentioned here, designing before hand where they are not terribly beneficial up to and including simply implementing commands in the game that make repetative tasks repeat automatically without needing an exterior input - basically putting the script functionality in the mud itself so no one can cry foul over not being able to afford a client (Many of which are free to download, so...? Also confusing...).

Finally, a shameless plug for the game I am presently playing. Combat on Accursed Lands is pretty hands off, but it has sliding bars for combat style, and skills that you gain purely from in game use. Aim and control are opposed, so the harder you try to aim the less able you are to control blows away from your more vulberable bodyparts (aim and protected bodyparts are also chosen by the player). You can fight more offensively, or try to dodge more; you can be more daring in your attacks, or sit back and attempt to parry more; and you can focus on attack or defense generally. All of these are rated on a sliding scale.

It is pretty mechanical after that, though there are thrown weapon skills, spells, weapon tactics and the like that can make it even more engaging. Anyhow, I enjoy it and it is at the very least a good base for something that could eventually work out to be a pretty cool PvP system while not relying terribly on your typing skills.

Come by, try it out, comment on the boards... maybe you can suggest something that will end up making it even more fun. I would like to know what people who enjoy PvP feel could be done with the system. I'm Falcon on chat and Shane on the web boards if you want to contact me. I am a mere player and not an admin, so, whatever that means. I have been interested in the nuts and bolts of muds for years but am a lazy-bones code wise, it seems. So I shop...

My.. quite-a-bit-more-than two cents there...

04-21-2006, 03:31 PM	#122
Shane Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 159	Interesting. There appears to be a reflex-purist school of thought in mud combat and while I understand and applaud the attempt to find ways for people who all like that sort of thing to be able to find one another and play in a situation where they can be largely sure no one is cheating with a script, there are also a number of people like myself whose typing speed and accuracy will never approach the level to be competative in such a situation. For such people, being able to shortcut with scripts is handy, and I think that is a big part of the success of the IRE system popularity. Specifically allowing a lot of scripting allows the widest array of people possible to participate. I can commiserate because, you know, if I wanted to test my reaction time I would be out shooting skeet or something. =) So when you mud to rp and yet what you want to rp is an effective warrior, yet you don't type 130 wpm, well... you can understand the frustration level there. I also distinguish between botting and PvP scripting. Artificially testing to see if people are botting your mobs (or other non combat skills in muds who swing that way) with ascii art and so forth comes across to me sort of like saying, "yes our game play is often monotonous and could best be played by a robot, but by golly if you want to hang out here, rp, explore, and enjoy the good points we have, you will by golly pay the price in hours and hours of consicously and continually focusing yourself on mind numbing drudgery that the rest of us have." Maybe I will go play some other game then? And yet that is the norm, not the exception. So I am stuck. Seriously, for me mud playing is often an experience in sort of losing myself in a sort of detached state of consciousness, sort of like solitaire, or, better yet, Sim City, and if making a script or botting a repetative action helps me a little, I am not sure why people choose to be upset with me over it. I am not dissing people who play text based games to test their reflexes and quick reactions, and especially quick thinking skills that no video game or physical sport can really rival, but at the same time, to me, making combat rely too heavily on a natural and/or hard won ability to react with typed words in split seconds begins to make a mud very niche-marketesque. I've played Coffeemud a little and it would be interesting to see how pk would work out on it, and what sets of startup decicions for that codebase would lead to what sorts of PvP. I say this because of the fairly large number of various skills, spells and so forth. It just seems like it would be such a large variety of possibilities that it could be very challenging for a PvP based game, if properly run. Coffeemud is more or less designed for folks to be able to customise it themselves. Last time I piddled with it, I could not get it to do total skill based progression without levels and classes, so I dropped off of it for a while, but they may have even fixed that by now. Personally, I'd like to see a move towards just accepting scripting and botting, or else as has been mentioned here, designing before hand where they are not terribly beneficial up to and including simply implementing commands in the game that make repetative tasks repeat automatically without needing an exterior input - basically putting the script functionality in the mud itself so no one can cry foul over not being able to afford a client (Many of which are free to download, so...? Also confusing...). Finally, a shameless plug for the game I am presently playing. Combat on Accursed Lands is pretty hands off, but it has sliding bars for combat style, and skills that you gain purely from in game use. Aim and control are opposed, so the harder you try to aim the less able you are to control blows away from your more vulberable bodyparts (aim and protected bodyparts are also chosen by the player). You can fight more offensively, or try to dodge more; you can be more daring in your attacks, or sit back and attempt to parry more; and you can focus on attack or defense generally. All of these are rated on a sliding scale. It is pretty mechanical after that, though there are thrown weapon skills, spells, weapon tactics and the like that can make it even more engaging. Anyhow, I enjoy it and it is at the very least a good base for something that could eventually work out to be a pretty cool PvP system while not relying terribly on your typing skills. Come by, try it out, comment on the boards... maybe you can suggest something that will end up making it even more fun. I would like to know what people who enjoy PvP feel could be done with the system. I'm Falcon on chat and Shane on the web boards if you want to contact me. I am a mere player and not an admin, so, whatever that means. I have been interested in the nuts and bolts of muds for years but am a lazy-bones code wise, it seems. So I shop... My.. quite-a-bit-more-than two cents there...