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Threshold · 03-31-2008, 02:44 AM

I guess you are just skimming the thread. Go back and read The Logos' post about MUD.

Nope. See below.

You have skill levels. 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. A level is an arbitrary number assigned to a player to determine the result of an action. So is a skill level. The only difference between a "level" and a "skill level" is the "level" amalgamates more things into a single number than "skill levels" do. If you use numbers behind the scenes to adjudicate results/die rolls, then there is no real difference. It is just minor, behind the scenes details.

I, like you, personally like skills more than levels. But I take the study of game mechanics quite seriously, and I understand that mechanically they have a very similar function.

No, because it just moves to the forums, AIM, MSN, Facebook, TeamSpeak, Ventrilo, and Skype instead. It changes nothing. In fact, it makes things worse because then people talk OOC in ways that are totally unmonitored. Furthermore, that is just a preference. There is nothing extreme or intensive about it whatsoever.

By that logic, WoW is the most extreme RPI of them all. They even make you provide a credit card!

What is extreme about that? Hundreds of games require that. There are web sites online that can generate such stories automatically by just plugging in a few words like a Mad Lib. I think it is a good idea on RP games to require such things, but I don't think it is "extreme" by any stretch of the imagination.

Skill training through use is not "intense." It promotes and rewards scripting - e.g. someone standing with their face in a corner typing the same command over and over. Furthermore, it exists in tons of extremely "non role play intense" games - Morrowind, Oblivion, and WoW (in World of Warcraft, all of your skills train up through use). More than once in WoW I trained up my weapon skills by loading up on INT buffs and having a warlock friend banish elementals over and over so I could beat on them while they were immune. That was... not intense at all. Do you really promise to never post again? Not even a retraction and apology?

Also, I think permadeath is very often not intense. It lets you throw away a character and not have to deal with the long term ramifications of their behavior. You think it is intense to just die and start over? If the player wasn't allowed to keep playing the game, that might be true. But the reality is they get a clean slate. They get a full and complete do-over. A mulligan. In a lot of cases that is easier than having people use things against you that you did 8 RL years prior. Now, *that* is extreme.

See? It really is all just perspective and preference. What you think is marvellous and wonderful is only marvellous and wonderful for you and people who share your view. To a lot people, what you like is cheap, unbelieveable, unrealistic, and simplistic. Good thing for all of us that there is more than 1 game on the internet, huh? The difference is, non-RPI folks aren't the ones saying their way is the best, most realistic, most extreme, or most intense. So with that in mind, maybe you can stop being so superior and narrow minded? Maybe?

Who am I kidding? You are going to insist your way is still the best no matter how many people give examples of things they find far more extreme, realistic, believable, and fun. Oh well.

03-31-2008, 02:44 AM	#103
Threshold Legend Join Date: Apr 2002 Home MUD: Threshold RPG Posts: 1,260	Re: Guidelines for an RPI mud. I guess you are just skimming the thread. Go back and read The Logos' post about MUD. Nope. See below. You have skill levels. 6 of one, a half dozen of the other. A level is an arbitrary number assigned to a player to determine the result of an action. So is a skill level. The only difference between a "level" and a "skill level" is the "level" amalgamates more things into a single number than "skill levels" do. If you use numbers behind the scenes to adjudicate results/die rolls, then there is no real difference. It is just minor, behind the scenes details. I, like you, personally like skills more than levels. But I take the study of game mechanics quite seriously, and I understand that mechanically they have a very similar function. No, because it just moves to the forums, AIM, MSN, Facebook, TeamSpeak, Ventrilo, and Skype instead. It changes nothing. In fact, it makes things worse because then people talk OOC in ways that are totally unmonitored. Furthermore, that is just a preference. There is nothing extreme or intensive about it whatsoever. By that logic, WoW is the most extreme RPI of them all. They even make you provide a credit card! What is extreme about that? Hundreds of games require that. There are web sites online that can generate such stories automatically by just plugging in a few words like a Mad Lib. I think it is a good idea on RP games to require such things, but I don't think it is "extreme" by any stretch of the imagination. Skill training through use is not "intense." It promotes and rewards scripting - e.g. someone standing with their face in a corner typing the same command over and over. Furthermore, it exists in tons of extremely "non role play intense" games - Morrowind, Oblivion, and WoW (in World of Warcraft, all of your skills train up through use). More than once in WoW I trained up my weapon skills by loading up on INT buffs and having a warlock friend banish elementals over and over so I could beat on them while they were immune. That was... not intense at all. Do you really promise to never post again? Not even a retraction and apology? Also, I think permadeath is very often not intense. It lets you throw away a character and not have to deal with the long term ramifications of their behavior. You think it is intense to just die and start over? If the player wasn't allowed to keep playing the game, that might be true. But the reality is they get a clean slate. They get a full and complete do-over. A mulligan. In a lot of cases that is easier than having people use things against you that you did 8 RL years prior. Now, that is extreme. See? It really is all just perspective and preference. What you think is marvellous and wonderful is only marvellous and wonderful for you and people who share your view. To a lot people, what you like is cheap, unbelieveable, unrealistic, and simplistic. Good thing for all of us that there is more than 1 game on the internet, huh? The difference is, non-RPI folks aren't the ones saying their way is the best, most realistic, most extreme, or most intense. So with that in mind, maybe you can stop being so superior and narrow minded? Maybe? Who am I kidding? You are going to insist your way is still the best no matter how many people give examples of things they find far more extreme, realistic, believable, and fun. Oh well.