[prof1515]

I'm starting a different thread to avoid derailing this one discussing the inaccuracies in an earlier post....

I never suggested that it was. I said that the emotional impact of losing a character, be it on a RP game or a H&S game, is equally devastating to anyone with a committment. For me, I voluntarily quit my H&S characters over and over when I got tired of the game. I rebuilt them without much concern. Losing my characters on RPI, where I knew I could not simply go out and repeat the events and role-play I'd experienced with them was far more important to me. To someone else, the inverse might be true. Neither has a trump on the impact of loss, though.

It doesn't. Loss is loss and for different people, what they lose has differing value to them. For some a H&S character is nothing. For others, it matters.

Actually, I've never played WoW and aside from watching someone else do it for a bit, I've avoided it altogether. My experiences with H&S was on text-based games and some old console games but never any of the present graphical MMOs. And the times that I lost my character on H&S didn't matter. The only time it really did was when it was done personally to **** me off by another player that had been told to stop harassing me by one admin but let off the hook by another. Favoritism is something I don't tolerate and one of the primary reasons I have quite games in the past including RPIs.

While I'll agree that there's more depth to role-playing worlds which would allow for new experiences with new characters, that doesn't make losing a character easier. It makes it harder for some since the experiences they've lost are gone and they can't just go out and level back up to them.

Again, you accuse me of flaming where none was present. Please desist from doing this.

They rarely succeed because they're rarely attempted. The vast majority of H&S games are not permadeath. As for their success ratio, there are other factors besides permadeath that cause games to go under. What proof is there that permadeath results in the failure of H&S games to succeed?

There's no evidence that it is any more distressful. There is evidence that for different individuals there are different levels of attachment. To each their own. There is no absolute. For some, losing a character on a H&S is nothing more than a setback in points while losing a character on a RP game is a devastating loss, almost like losing a family member. For others, losing a role-play character is just another chance at something new while losing a H&S character is a source of incredible frustration.

If you are arguing the opposite, then I'm thinking perhaps [RPI] muds, where permadeath is a required feature, must have the most masochistic players around.[/quote]

I'm not arguing the opposite, I'm pointing out that the impact of loss is dependant upon the individual's investment, not on the type of game. Let me state that I believe that there is no difference between the loss of a character in a permanent death role-playing game and a permanent death H&S game. The difference is in the player playing them. For some, the impact of losing hours of killing stuff to gain levels and equipment and whatnot is a greater loss. For others, the impact of losing the character that they have role-played is a greater loss. It's not the game type that matters. It's the player playing the game.

Some people actually enjoy the grind. I'm not one of them but I know some that do. To each their own.

Again, attempting to defend your strengthen your opinion by trying to color my statements as attacks does nothing to combat the fact that an opinion is worthless unless the facts support it. The facts do not support a conclusion that permanent death in either type of game has greater impact. It is dependant upon the player.

But that's really just an opinion. The best that can really be said is that permadeath doesn't work for certain types of players, be it on a H&S or a role-playing game.

I didn't flame him and am quite frankly wish you would stop assuming as much. I agree with him on some points, disagree with him on others. I'm not flaming him, I'm pointing out inconsistencies in his position which is not the same thing as flaming him. If all players conformed to the generalizations he's using his position might be more accurate but not all players do. I myself don't as I proved back in 2001 when I literally junked equipment and stuff that most players on my old H&S might not achieve if they'd played for a decade, then deleted my character. I didn't care. There was no emotional loss for me. It was just a game. By contrast, when I lost a character that same year on the RPI I played, I was depressed for days. I've known people that have been depressed for even longer at the loss of a character while others have shrugged it off and started work on their next. It's not a matter of which type game they were playing. They'd likely behave the same if they were playing the opposite type of game (though usually their distaste for the other type would prevent them from even trying).

Take care,

Jason