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shadowfyr · 05-20-2007, 04:03 PM

Hmm. I am not sure I agree entirely with the permadeath issue. I mean, assuming someone has crafting and the like and those things "do" have some level system, hidden or otherwise, you still lose *a lot* if you die permanently. Another option is what would happen in a real world case where someone kills someone off, the assassin disappears, name changes, etc. One of the stupidest things I have ever found in the one I played at was, "We need to know who everyone is, so disguise just makes you look like, 'a mysterious stranger'." Well, that is just dumb. An assassin isn't going to fracking show up saying, "Hi there, I am Kagehi the assassin. How would you like to die today?" They are going to show up looking like a completely different race, if possible, a different class, if possible, under a different name, etc.

The victim shouldn't have a clue, ressed or not, who the heck killed them. Better yet, it should be a surprise, public, or done so that the assassin isn't even seen. If they don't *witness* "Blah backstabs you!", then they can't say that "Blah" did it. If its done in a public room with lots of other people, or at a masked ball, etc, everyone should be suspect. Maybe someone hired an assassin to give them special poison. Maybe they just got lucky and you are chasing an assassin when it wasn't. Maybe, like the ninja of old, the assassin is simply expert in some things that other people are not, and you can't tell who they are, because they only ply their trade when they are not making cloaks for guilds.

Why the hell is assassin always assumed, in completely ignorance of the way they function in even most halfway realisting fiction, as some special "class" that has to be 100% assassin all the time. It should be "anyone". The only people that know what they are should be their own guild. If you do have permadeath, it should be limited to cases where the assassin's identity is found out *by* the person hiring them, the assassin finds out, and the body disappears for too long for it to be ressable. If someone doesn't play by the rules and outs one without the needed intrigue, it had better be a major fool in their own guild. If its the guy that hired them, who figured out who it was, then started a new character... Well, that is cheating, and the assassin should have the chance to change name, appearance and plot to take out the cheater.

Point is, resses could work, if you did everything else right. The problem is, people don't think about how assassinations "should" work, what assassins would do to protect their identity, like having 3-4 names, from 3-4 different jobs in 3-4 different parts of the city. And the game environment, if it does cater to assassins, which is all permadeath does in this case (And I hate that kind of BS excuse which only helps one fracking type of player), then the game should make it "seem" as though the first persona/alias for the character logged out, then a new one logged in, to hide the fact that the "same" person just switched jobs to hide. The assassin should only be outed if you can "prove" that Kagehi the tailor, Zalgad the Merchant and Niclos the bower are "all" the same person using real clues. If Kagehi gets caught with his hand on the knife, he should disappear completely, because that persona is no longer viable, and finding the culprit should involve figuring out that Zalgad or Niclos is the same person. And if one of them stages their own death, so it appears that they permadied... then great, if not, they get caught. If the other players can't figure it out, too bad, etc.

Point is, ressing just means you adjust the RP, not that it becomes impossible, and if you make *anything* in the game reliant on usage and time, then you either have to cheat by making *everyone* change identity, while keeping some skills, which is almost as absurd, or you have to make up special rules, like permadeath for *all* cases, which only help one group of people.

Oh, and for that matter, why even make "any" permadeath? This is *supposed* to be RP. Why wouldn't/shouldn't the game itself provide a statement on ressing that **all** you remember is a flash of green and a moment of pain, but not who attacked you. The flash of green might be enough to hint at the fact that the assassin was wearing green. Unless the moron was the only guy in the entire city wearing green...

Anyway, I hope you see my point. Imho, permadeath is taking the easy way out, and makes for silly compromises and problems of its own, which don't entirely make any more sense than an assassin that everyone can point at and scream, "He did it!!" You are showing a lack of imagination if you can't figure out how to have ressing in a game world where some things need to be kept unknown. But heh, that is just my opinion.

05-20-2007, 04:03 PM	#11
shadowfyr Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 310	Hmm. I am not sure I agree entirely with the permadeath issue. I mean, assuming someone has crafting and the like and those things "do" have some level system, hidden or otherwise, you still lose a lot if you die permanently. Another option is what would happen in a real world case where someone kills someone off, the assassin disappears, name changes, etc. One of the stupidest things I have ever found in the one I played at was, "We need to know who everyone is, so disguise just makes you look like, 'a mysterious stranger'." Well, that is just dumb. An assassin isn't going to fracking show up saying, "Hi there, I am Kagehi the assassin. How would you like to die today?" They are going to show up looking like a completely different race, if possible, a different class, if possible, under a different name, etc. The victim shouldn't have a clue, ressed or not, who the heck killed them. Better yet, it should be a surprise, public, or done so that the assassin isn't even seen. If they don't witness "Blah backstabs you!", then they can't say that "Blah" did it. If its done in a public room with lots of other people, or at a masked ball, etc, everyone should be suspect. Maybe someone hired an assassin to give them special poison. Maybe they just got lucky and you are chasing an assassin when it wasn't. Maybe, like the ninja of old, the assassin is simply expert in some things that other people are not, and you can't tell who they are, because they only ply their trade when they are not making cloaks for guilds. Why the hell is assassin always assumed, in completely ignorance of the way they function in even most halfway realisting fiction, as some special "class" that has to be 100% assassin all the time. It should be "anyone". The only people that know what they are should be their own guild. If you do have permadeath, it should be limited to cases where the assassin's identity is found out by the person hiring them, the assassin finds out, and the body disappears for too long for it to be ressable. If someone doesn't play by the rules and outs one without the needed intrigue, it had better be a major fool in their own guild. If its the guy that hired them, who figured out who it was, then started a new character... Well, that is cheating, and the assassin should have the chance to change name, appearance and plot to take out the cheater. Point is, resses could work, if you did everything else right. The problem is, people don't think about how assassinations "should" work, what assassins would do to protect their identity, like having 3-4 names, from 3-4 different jobs in 3-4 different parts of the city. And the game environment, if it does cater to assassins, which is all permadeath does in this case (And I hate that kind of BS excuse which only helps one fracking type of player), then the game should make it "seem" as though the first persona/alias for the character logged out, then a new one logged in, to hide the fact that the "same" person just switched jobs to hide. The assassin should only be outed if you can "prove" that Kagehi the tailor, Zalgad the Merchant and Niclos the bower are "all" the same person using real clues. If Kagehi gets caught with his hand on the knife, he should disappear completely, because that persona is no longer viable, and finding the culprit should involve figuring out that Zalgad or Niclos is the same person. And if one of them stages their own death, so it appears that they permadied... then great, if not, they get caught. If the other players can't figure it out, too bad, etc. Point is, ressing just means you adjust the RP, not that it becomes impossible, and if you make anything in the game reliant on usage and time, then you either have to cheat by making everyone change identity, while keeping some skills, which is almost as absurd, or you have to make up special rules, like permadeath for all cases, which only help one group of people. Oh, and for that matter, why even make "any" permadeath? This is supposed to be RP. Why wouldn't/shouldn't the game itself provide a statement on ressing that all you remember is a flash of green and a moment of pain, but not who attacked you. The flash of green might be enough to hint at the fact that the assassin was wearing green. Unless the moron was the only guy in the entire city wearing green... Anyway, I hope you see my point. Imho, permadeath is taking the easy way out, and makes for silly compromises and problems of its own, which don't entirely make any more sense than an assassin that everyone can point at and scream, "He did it!!" You are showing a lack of imagination if you can't figure out how to have ressing in a game world where some things need to be kept unknown. But heh, that is just my opinion.