[Tocamat]

When I read the very first post in this thread by Brody, I thought to myself, 'hmm interesting'. Interesting enough that I
would make a point of coming back to read about the next mud he provided some information about. Today there are 3 times as many pages as yesterday. All full of folks complaing that he is somehow doing wrong, mixed in with cheap shots at Achaea. Btw, why does Achaea get slammed in almost every topic? How can anyone fault Brody for using his own valuable time to write something positive about a mud he has no stake in? My impression was that he wanted to bring to the front some tidbit of information from a mud that simply sits further down the list. Period.

[Bastien]

Synozeer (and Brody) probably have better things to do than write a script that does THE EXACT SAME THING that Brody is trying to do


ffs guys, I think the "ulterior motives" are your own. Just looking for something to bitch about, eh? Get over it, I think from all the other posts in this thread, that you'd come to see that 9/10's of us are all for it.

I played Midnight Sun, and I liked it enough I think I'll go back.

Rock on.

[Dulan]

Oh, just a heads up considering all the flak I've gotten off the boards for this.

I did this to prove a point - namely, the vocal minority point I've made so many times on these boards, and had promptly overriden.

Anyone else care to try to deny anything about a vocal minority? Anyone?

-D

[Keahi]

Wow.

I've just waded through four pages of nonsense that does nothing but make the mudding community look like a bunch of overtired three-year-olds, looking for and failing to find Brody's next underdog.

Where is it, Brody?

Mmmm, y'know, there was a great site out there, called, as it happens, The Underdogs. This site was dedicated to all the great computer games out there, old and new, which for whatever reason never received the publicity and aclaim they so richly deserve (oh look, it's still there, ). I don't remember anyone ever writing in there complaining about the name.


Sighing
K

[enix]

Do you people have no faith in humanity at all?!?!? I have little, but I believe some people do nice things. I do them sometimes! When I'm on my MUD, I often offer a new player help getting started. I have no other motive, what could i possilbe gain from that? Its very simmilar to what Brody is doing, in a certain light. Some people just do nice things. Anotehr thing some people do, just to be nice. The server my MUD is on is run by voulenteers, they do not get a cent. And as far as i know, they dont even play. One has a wizard account, but thats just to talk with the admins of the mud for server related subjects. And right now, they are doing the best they can in thier free time to get my MUD up and running again. Some people just do with nice things, i dont know what trauma you went through to lose all faith in us as a race, but dont go blaming other people for it!

-Enix, Lord of Despair and Sorrow

[Brody]

[Falconer]

Wes Platt is not only a long-time friend and colleague of mine, but also someone who has made incredible gestures toward strengthening the text-based community.  He's spent time organizing and hosting the semi-annual Andy Awards, he's created his own MU* Index, written invaluable articles and gone to great lengths to bring text-based roleplaying into the limelight.  He's informed readers of his books about The Mud Connector, written letters to both computer and popular magazines that present MU*s as alternatives to EverQuest and formed websites that tout the genre as interactive fiction rather than simple games.  He's asked his coders to help other projects implement some difficult chunks of code when they're short on resources and has met with me (and assuredly others) countless times to help shape thematic and roleplaying structures in projects of our own.

With this particular post, however, Brody's character and motives don't matter--they're inevitable red herrings.  Neither do the motives of those who have voiced an objection.

Regardless of intent, this post is designed to promote games and it seems to be doing a fair job of that.  Take away all the fluff and nonsense and it becomes a simple argument over semantics--different interpretations of the word "underdog."  The objective point of reference of Miriam or Webster with a common phrase such as this fails to cover the gamut of the expression. Wes isn't talking about the quality of the MUD nor making a judgement about playerbase size--he's simply providing a service.

[John]

Brody, Brody, Brody. What are we going to do with you? It's a THREE man conspiracy. One man to start the thread where "this idea came to you". Then you of course. Then one man to post your mud. When your in a conspiracy you need to get it right. sheeesh.

Do I have an ulterior motive? Yup. To bring you all a healthy dose of insanity. Now form a line, I can only do one at a time.

[KaVir]

Brody, you've still failed to answer my questions, so I'll ask you once more. What are you trying to achieve? What benefit do you think there is in posting a promotion which contains nothing of substance?

As I've repeatedly said, you're free to post what you want, but the way you're going about it is both offensive to some, and useless to most, when it could be so much more. You've implied that you're trying to draw positive attention to the lower-ranked muds, so why simply ignore the suggestions without even gracing them with a response? Is it that your pride was hurt by the earlier, somewhat sarcastic comments that were made, and now you've stubbornly decided you're not willing to budge on this? If so, I'd suggest learning to develop a tougher skin if you ever plan to do any serious reviews. Perhaps it's that you simply don't care what other people think? If that's the case, I'd have to question the value of your contributions, considering they are targetted at other people. Or is it something else?

I think Brody's objective is a good one, but I think the way he's approaching it is poorly thought out, and offers practically nothing of value - while doing so in a way that myself and some others consider offensive. With a little more thought and consideration his idea could be so much more, and I just think it's a shame to see him waste that possibility by refusing to even recognise other peoples opinions. There is no envy involved - why would there be? I've always been an advocate for things that improve the mud community, and have made numerous contributions towards that end. However I certainly wouldn't want any of my own muds promoted like this, so in some way there is indeed the apprehension that I could be next on the "charity hit list".

[Burke]

Maybe he just got wise and rightfully started ignoring you Kavir and went about his merry way.

Burke makes a mental note to add Kavir to his Dulan-ignore list.

[Brianna]

Perhaps rather than calling it an Underdog mud maybe revamp the thread and Call it Brody's Spotlight Mud of the Day.

#### back when I was a kid - American Bandstand did a spotlight dance and nobody considered that offensive.. Perhaps this may be a better way to keep the Nitpickers of every definition and good intent from picking but I suppose even that would be picked apart.

Just my thoughts, Keep up the good work Brody, I hope when my mud opens that you will help spot light us as well.

[Burr]

1) The scripting suggestion. This has already been implemented in every necessary sense. Every time a mud is added to the listing, a link to its description is put up on the front page of the site. This happens regardless of how many people vote for or review that mud.

2) The substanciality suggestion. The benefit and substance of the review seems to be that someone in high standing in the mud community is doing it. If you agree with Brody's opinions about muds in general, then you can expect to agree about the muds he spotlights, however much or little he actually describes them. Simply put, Brody had the balls to pin his social equity (e.g., credibility) on the muds he suggests, and that says something for the muds he picks out.

While it may be true that more substance would be helpful, if Brody doesn't have the time to add in that substance, then you'd have to get someone else to do it. If nobody else with Brody's credibility (e.g., Kavir) is willing to do it themselves, then you lose the whole point of the reviews. In any case, if people want substance, they can go check out the mud themselves, or analyze reviews available elsewhere (such as the reviews page). Brody's reviews best serve by providing, not substance, but credibility to the substance already provided elsewhere. At least in my opinion.

[Dulan]

I find it vaguely amusing that someone with such an offensive name in England-ish slang, such as yourself, Burke, would add me to an ignore list.

Berk, Berke, or Burke - take your pick for the spelling. All forms of a highly offensive word in English slang.

-D

[KaVir]

I doubt that - he usually acts in a very mature fashion. Mud administrators don't last long if they bury their head in the sand every time they encounter a problem.

Oh no! I'm being ignored by...wait, who are you again?

We've already been through the whole "change the name" thing, and Brody has stated that he's not willing to do so.

How so? He's never even played them!

He's pinning his credibility on a mud he's never played? What does that achieve, other than to reduce his credibility?

Finally, Dulan, I don't have a problem with Burke's name, particularly in light of it's meaning:

1 : to suppress quietly or indirectly <burke an inquiry>
2 : BYPASS, AVOID <burke an issue>

[OnyxFlame]

[Bastien]

Yes, Burke I too would have to say that I am HIGHLY offended by your name. Shame on you.
/sarcasm


Never worry about being you, or anyone else,
Not a care, no concern, don't give a **** ...

[Azhon]

This discussion is most amusing.

Continue on please.

[Samson]

[KaVir]

And how exactly can his standards make a difference, when he's not even logging on to the muds?

Alajha opposed it as well, and Brianna suggested he might consider changing the name.  Perhaps you should read threads before posting to them in future?

Well, what the heck - if you can't beat em, join em!

<span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>LOOK, AN ACTUAL LOSER MUD OF THE DAY</span>

Alsherok

Website:
Telnet: alsherok.net:5500

At the point of writing this, Alsherok is such a failure that it's not even ranked!  It's a "fantasy" mud with "An original 9,000+ room world" - and it even has a "Mostly Original" world, complete with Midgaard!

Worth checking out! :)

(Oh, and just to clarify, by "loser" I'm referring to the dictionary definition of "one that loses especially consistently", and by "failure" I mean "lack of success", both within the context of the Top Mud Sites rankings - just like Brody has done).

[Brody]

KaVir,

It saddens me, seriously, to see how far you've sunk with this. You've made your issues with my project clear. I've asked you, and anyone else like you, to have the courtesy to start a new thread for it.

When others defend what I'm doing, you attack them. I thought I'd seen it all until you viciously mocked Samson's game.

You can attack *me* all you like over this. In another thread, via private message, fine. But to attack others simply because they don't agree with you, to mock them this way - it's so far beneath what I (and many, many others) have come to expect from you that it absolutely leaves me flabbergasted.

Your quarrel isn't with Samson. He didn't do anything to earn what you did, except have the gall to disagree with you.

Sometimes, KaVir, being mature means knowing when to take a difference of opinions away from a playground fight to a reasoned, private discussion.

You know how to PM me here. You know how to start a new thread. My email address is .

Best wishes,

Wes