Legal Issues

KaVir · 05-20-2002, 07:40 PM

I recently noticed Orion's IMC-bashing editorials on , and felt compelled to respond to give a fuller picture. My reply can be read .

Another point, the editorial by "Mr X." is technically in violation of copyright. You can create a parody (eg "Bored of the Rings"), or even quote some sections for the purposes of criticism or review (under the "fair use" act), but quoting the entire article without permission is dodgy in the extreme, even if you've replyed to it point-by-point. Furthermore, there is a distinct line between "parody" and "libel", and I'd say that article crosses it. It has the sort of content I'd expect to read on Muduniverse.

Orion Elder · 05-21-2002, 05:50 PM

Likened. Not called. To liken is to compare to, hence the definition from

You compared my actions in the below phrase as similar to Vryce's:

While you may not have intended to liken me to Vryce, that is what you did.

On a minor side note, you keep saying that I have a personal dislike of Ntanel. I don't, nor have I ever claimed I did (hell, I still talk to him on IMC and ICQ occasionally). I have issue with some of his actions (which have been cleared up as of late as well), but I do not have a personal dislike of him.

As for the article from Mr. X he e-mailed me yesterday and requested it be removed (not sure if he saw this or not, but his reason is currently listed in place of the story). At the author's request it was removed.

KaVir · 05-21-2002, 06:12 PM

Firstly, "compare as" is grammatically incorrect - you either "compare to" (which is used figuratively and metaphorically to liken one thing to another), or "compare with" (which is used when you place items side by side to examine their similarities and differences, and is statistical rather than creative).

However I did neither. I pointed out why people should have to watch out for the Vryce's, then said "but you also" before pointing out that people also have to watch out for the Orion's. I was not comparing the two evils, simply pointing out that they both exist. I drew no parallels between them, made no comparisons, pointed out no similarities.

Orion Elder · 05-21-2002, 06:18 PM

Stealing and taking something that isn't one's to take. Hrm. Ah well. Sorry, I just don't see how 1 != 1. *shrug*

Edited:
On the note of the grammar; If you compare one thing to another to show a similarity, you compare them as similar items. That's the point I was making.

Again:
Ugh. I really need to pay attention. Also the 'as similar' can be removed from that phrase, if you so wish... it's used to make a distinction.

KaVir · 05-21-2002, 06:57 PM

These are comparisons:

Compare car thieves WITH the police and you'll notice some similarities - for example, they'll both take your car without your permission, if you're not careful where you leave it. Personally I prefer to compare Vryce TO a car thief, as it makes for good analogies.

This is NOT a comparison:

You've got to watch out for the thieves trying to steal your car, but you also need to be careful of the police towing it away for being badly parked.

In the latter, no comparison was drawn between the two. This should be obvious, unless you're deliberately trying to make yourself out to be a martyr.

Threshold · 05-21-2002, 07:17 PM

I just read KaVir's post, and saw absolutely NO comparison being made between Vryce and Orion. In fact, I read the opposite: a DISTINCTION was made..

He said you have to watch out for people like Vryce who steal your code and you also have to watch out for Orion's trying to take away your rights to your own work.

An analogy might be: "When driving your car, you have to watch out for children in the street as well as oncoming traffic." In such a statement, children and cars are not being considered similar things. They are distinct hazards you must be aware of when driving.

Similarly, people who steal your code and who contribute to your code and later try to control your work are distinct hazards in the mudding community.

Orion Elder · 05-21-2002, 11:03 PM

Threshold · 05-24-2002, 11:17 PM

I'd say it is a matter of reading comprehension, rather than viewpoint.

Anyone with a basic ability to read english should be able to tell that KaVir was making a clear distinction.

If we have come to the point where we have to speak like 2nd graders to prevent morons from skimming and misunderstanding things, then we may as well go back to cave painting instead of written language.

Dulan · 05-25-2002, 12:13 AM

Threshold · 05-26-2002, 01:24 AM

Ugh! That sounds like a terrible world!

I guess I have to be a caveman as well, since having an actual law degree would rule me out of the second.

Can I have an Uber Club of Dinosaur Bashing + 10? That's sorta cool I guess.

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05-20-2002, 07:40 PM	#1
KaVir Legend Join Date: Apr 2002 Name: Richard Home MUD: God Wars II Posts: 2,052	I recently noticed Orion's IMC-bashing editorials on , and felt compelled to respond to give a fuller picture. My reply can be read . Another point, the editorial by "Mr X." is technically in violation of copyright. You can create a parody (eg "Bored of the Rings"), or even quote some sections for the purposes of criticism or review (under the "fair use" act), but quoting the entire article without permission is dodgy in the extreme, even if you've replyed to it point-by-point. Furthermore, there is a distinct line between "parody" and "libel", and I'd say that article crosses it. It has the sort of content I'd expect to read on Muduniverse.

05-21-2002, 05:50 PM	#2
Orion Elder Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 346	Likened. Not called. To liken is to compare to, hence the definition from You compared my actions in the below phrase as similar to Vryce's: While you may not have intended to liken me to Vryce, that is what you did. On a minor side note, you keep saying that I have a personal dislike of Ntanel. I don't, nor have I ever claimed I did (hell, I still talk to him on IMC and ICQ occasionally). I have issue with some of his actions (which have been cleared up as of late as well), but I do not have a personal dislike of him. As for the article from Mr. X he e-mailed me yesterday and requested it be removed (not sure if he saw this or not, but his reason is currently listed in place of the story). At the author's request it was removed.

05-21-2002, 06:12 PM	#3
KaVir Legend Join Date: Apr 2002 Name: Richard Home MUD: God Wars II Posts: 2,052	Firstly, "compare as" is grammatically incorrect - you either "compare to" (which is used figuratively and metaphorically to liken one thing to another), or "compare with" (which is used when you place items side by side to examine their similarities and differences, and is statistical rather than creative). However I did neither. I pointed out why people should have to watch out for the Vryce's, then said "but you also" before pointing out that people also have to watch out for the Orion's. I was not comparing the two evils, simply pointing out that they both exist. I drew no parallels between them, made no comparisons, pointed out no similarities.

05-21-2002, 06:18 PM	#4
Orion Elder Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 346	Stealing and taking something that isn't one's to take. Hrm. Ah well. Sorry, I just don't see how 1 != 1. shrug Edited: On the note of the grammar; If you compare one thing to another to show a similarity, you compare them as similar items. That's the point I was making. Again: Ugh. I really need to pay attention. Also the 'as similar' can be removed from that phrase, if you so wish... it's used to make a distinction.

05-21-2002, 06:57 PM	#5
KaVir Legend Join Date: Apr 2002 Name: Richard Home MUD: God Wars II Posts: 2,052	These are comparisons: Compare car thieves WITH the police and you'll notice some similarities - for example, they'll both take your car without your permission, if you're not careful where you leave it. Personally I prefer to compare Vryce TO a car thief, as it makes for good analogies. This is NOT a comparison: You've got to watch out for the thieves trying to steal your car, but you also need to be careful of the police towing it away for being badly parked. In the latter, no comparison was drawn between the two. This should be obvious, unless you're deliberately trying to make yourself out to be a martyr.

05-21-2002, 07:17 PM	#6
Threshold Legend Join Date: Apr 2002 Home MUD: Threshold RPG Posts: 1,260	I just read KaVir's post, and saw absolutely NO comparison being made between Vryce and Orion. In fact, I read the opposite: a DISTINCTION was made.. He said you have to watch out for people like Vryce who steal your code and you also have to watch out for Orion's trying to take away your rights to your own work. An analogy might be: "When driving your car, you have to watch out for children in the street as well as oncoming traffic." In such a statement, children and cars are not being considered similar things. They are distinct hazards you must be aware of when driving. Similarly, people who steal your code and who contribute to your code and later try to control your work are distinct hazards in the mudding community.

05-21-2002, 11:03 PM	#7
Orion Elder Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 346

05-24-2002, 11:17 PM	#8
Threshold Legend Join Date: Apr 2002 Home MUD: Threshold RPG Posts: 1,260	I'd say it is a matter of reading comprehension, rather than viewpoint. Anyone with a basic ability to read english should be able to tell that KaVir was making a clear distinction. If we have come to the point where we have to speak like 2nd graders to prevent morons from skimming and misunderstanding things, then we may as well go back to cave painting instead of written language.

05-25-2002, 12:13 AM	#9
Dulan Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 354

05-26-2002, 01:24 AM	#10
Threshold Legend Join Date: Apr 2002 Home MUD: Threshold RPG Posts: 1,260	Ugh! That sounds like a terrible world! I guess I have to be a caveman as well, since having an actual law degree would rule me out of the second. Can I have an Uber Club of Dinosaur Bashing + 10? That's sorta cool I guess.

Legal Issues

My reply to the MUD Planet editorials