Legal Issues

locke · 06-23-2009, 04:21 PM

No, it is a transformative work with significant changes in meaning. If what you said was true, there would be no derivative nor transformative works.

Mabus · 06-23-2009, 04:31 PM

Let me break this down for you again, as you cannot seem to understand it.

From the DIKU license:
You did that, which violated the rule stated in the license.
Since you violated the license, from that point you were no longer allowed to alter the source.

Even you are smart enough to understand that.

locke · 06-23-2009, 04:36 PM

No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone. Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.

Mabus · 06-23-2009, 04:47 PM

I didn't write the DIKU license.

Are you stating I incorrectly quoted the license? Please clarify.
First, you are not a moderator of this board. If the staff of this board has an issue with any of my posts I am sure they will address the issue.

Second, I have not stated "I created YouTube" as you have (Steve Chen, Chad Hurley and Jawed Karim created it). I have not stated "Yes, my cousin is a COL POLAD who helped shut down Gitmo." as you have (GITMO is very much still open). I also did not violate the DIKU license as you have.

Those issues have "already been established".

locke · 06-23-2009, 04:50 PM

No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone. Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.

prof1515 · 06-23-2009, 05:31 PM

They are not his opinions and his alone. You're the only one with an opinion unsupported by anything or anyone. The only thing you've proven is that you're a liar and a delusional one at that.

locke · 06-23-2009, 06:47 PM

No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone. Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.

Wik · 06-23-2009, 06:52 PM

I do believe we broke him.

prof1515 · 06-23-2009, 07:10 PM

He's probably curled up in a corner rocking back and forth while saying, "I invented OLC. I invented YouTube. I invented the internet. I invented English."

locke · 06-23-2009, 07:12 PM

As a transformative work, it does not have to follow the license. A transformative work is one that is significantly different than what it was based on. For this reason, I do not have to follow the license.

Line length of files in nimud package:
Original Merc 2
82037
-------- = 0.28794324512110389214622670258542
26322

Considering only the source code and related scripts:
Even without comparing content of individual lines, we can see that if I had just inserted "Merc" into the NiMUD package and then wrote stuff around it, Merc would only constitute 28.79432...% of the content that is included in NiMUD 5. If you compare the lines of code, you would determine that the actual content that is still Merc/Diku is an even smaller percentage, probably around 10% though I don't really know and do not plan on doing a case study involving a diff. Since a majority is >50%, you can easily say the majority of the content in NiMUD is original and therefore not Merc/Diku MUD. Because of this, you can say it is a transformative work. Since it is a transformative work, it is NOT a derivative but instead a "transformation" of the original Merc/Diku MUD into something totally new. Therefore, NiMUD is mine and does not need to follow any licenses by Diku or Merc or anyone else.

prof1515 · 06-23-2009, 07:33 PM

Even if 0.00000001% of it is Diku or Merc it's not your property and you have no right to claim someone else's work. Your code, and by that I mean the code of the person who likely wrote it and from whom you simply leeched off, is still a derivitive and and thus subject to the terms of the Diku license.

Posting long segments of code doesn't change anything. The original work wasn't your's and thus you're a thief if you don't provide the proper credit. All you're proving by your repeated denials is that you're an egotistical moron, a fool with a sub-par IQ who is so much less than he thinks he is.

Why not save some face and just acknowledge that you're wrong? Everyone here knows it and can see that. Repeating the same tired disproven opinions won't change that fact.

locke · 06-23-2009, 07:45 PM

No, that's just not how the law works. I suggest reviewing the information at Stanford posted earlier about transformative works. Also, your claims that I "leeched work" are unfounded and wouldn't hold weight without evidence. You can make all the outlandish claims you want but without any real hard evidence (of topics in which I have quite thoroughly proven the opposite) it won't be considered as fact.

I have to say, "Mr Grammar Cop", that "your's" is not a word or valid contraction. I think you meant "yours" -- well obviously you're a child or at least an immature person because other people don't seem to take pot shots at my ego while delivering their retorts. You also don't apparently know what code is, considering I haven't posted any. I posted the output of the linux command "wc"

Because I'm not wrong, not "everybody" sees it your way and frankly I'm tired of changing your diaper.

Mabus · 06-23-2009, 09:03 PM

A few problems:
1) You have no "compelling public interest" for the transformative work to exist.
2) Your usage is not a parody, nor for purely informative or educational purposes.
3) Amount and Substantiality of the original work is extensive.
4) A modified DIKU is still available for sale. Your usage could cause harm.
5) The main body of DIKU is "a multi-user online text game", as is your derived work.
6) You lost any "fair use" when you violated the software license.

You're grasping at straws when you are trying to claim it as a "transformative work".

Also remember that software is not art and music. Courts have given more leeway to artists then to software developers, as deriving a work in art deals with impressions while using another coder's code (and claiming it as your own) is usually considered theft and/or piracy.

And then there is that whole sticky issue that US Copyright Law does not apply with DIKU. You might want to check into "Directive 2001/29/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 22 May 2001 on the harmonisation of certain aspects of copyright and related rights in the information society " and "Copyright law of the European Union" (as well as treaties between the US and the European Union dealing with intellectual property).

I will leave you with this:
There are places that offer free mental health screening and aid. There is nothing wrong with having issues. You may want to seek help.

Samson · 06-23-2009, 09:44 PM

This whole issue of "transformative works" does not even seem to be set in law yet?

I mean, they're still debating it in terms of proposed changes as far as I can find through Google.

locke · 06-23-2009, 09:52 PM

Thanks for all of your unsubstantiated claims (and some boldfaced lies). See ya in the game!

Baram · 06-23-2009, 09:56 PM

Your code is NOT "transformative work" it is a DERIVATIVE and always will be, and therefore subject to the DIKU license.

gth · 06-23-2009, 10:34 PM

There, fixed it for you.

locke · 06-23-2009, 10:59 PM

No, it's not a derivative because it is transformative and falls under "fair use".

o.o
D

-.o
o

For NiMUD, the answer to both of these questions is a resounding and obvious "yes"; I have provided substantial evidence for this in previous posts. Anyway, I'm done here. It's obvious to me there is no way to settle this argument with you, so unless you are going to file some sort of court action against me, which you can't, I suggest dropping it. As a show of good faith, I am not going to post on this thread again. Feel free to lie yourselves into whatever you would like to convince yourselves of. Cheers.

Samson · 06-23-2009, 11:07 PM

Except for the part where Mabus already explained why this is not the case.

And for the part that "transformative work" isn't something that seems to be valid law as all the links I can find point to it being proposed changes to the law that the US Congress has not taken up yet. The copyright.gov website has only one link directly dealing with the subject, which is the PDF document those wackos from the fanfic site submitted to them. You're behaving just like them in that your argument sounds like you wish to deprive Diku of their rights in the same manner they want to allow fanfic writers to deprive the original authors of their rights.

Samson · 06-23-2009, 11:08 PM

There. Fixed it for both of you.

06-23-2009, 04:21 PM	#61
locke Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333 Posts: 195	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC No, it is a transformative work with significant changes in meaning. If what you said was true, there would be no derivative nor transformative works.

06-23-2009, 04:31 PM	#62
Mabus Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 213	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC Let me break this down for you again, as you cannot seem to understand it. From the DIKU license: You did that, which violated the rule stated in the license. Since you violated the license, from that point you were no longer allowed to alter the source. Even you are smart enough to understand that.

06-23-2009, 04:36 PM	#63
locke Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333 Posts: 195	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone. Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.

06-23-2009, 04:47 PM	#64
Mabus Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 213	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC I didn't write the DIKU license. Are you stating I incorrectly quoted the license? Please clarify. First, you are not a moderator of this board. If the staff of this board has an issue with any of my posts I am sure they will address the issue. Second, I have not stated "I created YouTube" as you have (Steve Chen, Chad Hurley and Jawed Karim created it). I have not stated "Yes, my cousin is a COL POLAD who helped shut down Gitmo." as you have (GITMO is very much still open). I also did not violate the DIKU license as you have. Those issues have "already been established".

06-23-2009, 04:50 PM	#65
locke Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333 Posts: 195	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone. Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.

06-23-2009, 05:31 PM	#66
prof1515 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 791	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC They are not his opinions and his alone. You're the only one with an opinion unsupported by anything or anyone. The only thing you've proven is that you're a liar and a delusional one at that.

06-23-2009, 06:47 PM	#67
locke Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333 Posts: 195	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC No, I'm sorry, your personal opinions are just yours and yours alone. Stop spamming this board with repeated unprovable assertions contrary to what has already been established.

06-23-2009, 06:52 PM	#68
Wik Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Home MUD: OtherSpace Posts: 140	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC I do believe we broke him.

06-23-2009, 07:10 PM	#69
prof1515 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 791	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC He's probably curled up in a corner rocking back and forth while saying, "I invented OLC. I invented YouTube. I invented the internet. I invented English."

06-23-2009, 07:12 PM	#70
locke Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333 Posts: 195	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC As a transformative work, it does not have to follow the license. A transformative work is one that is significantly different than what it was based on. For this reason, I do not have to follow the license. Line length of files in nimud package: Original Merc 2 82037 -------- = 0.28794324512110389214622670258542 26322 Considering only the source code and related scripts: Even without comparing content of individual lines, we can see that if I had just inserted "Merc" into the NiMUD package and then wrote stuff around it, Merc would only constitute 28.79432...% of the content that is included in NiMUD 5. If you compare the lines of code, you would determine that the actual content that is still Merc/Diku is an even smaller percentage, probably around 10% though I don't really know and do not plan on doing a case study involving a diff. Since a majority is >50%, you can easily say the majority of the content in NiMUD is original and therefore not Merc/Diku MUD. Because of this, you can say it is a transformative work. Since it is a transformative work, it is NOT a derivative but instead a "transformation" of the original Merc/Diku MUD into something totally new. Therefore, NiMUD is mine and does not need to follow any licenses by Diku or Merc or anyone else.

06-23-2009, 07:33 PM	#71
prof1515 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 791	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC Even if 0.00000001% of it is Diku or Merc it's not your property and you have no right to claim someone else's work. Your code, and by that I mean the code of the person who likely wrote it and from whom you simply leeched off, is still a derivitive and and thus subject to the terms of the Diku license. Posting long segments of code doesn't change anything. The original work wasn't your's and thus you're a thief if you don't provide the proper credit. All you're proving by your repeated denials is that you're an egotistical moron, a fool with a sub-par IQ who is so much less than he thinks he is. Why not save some face and just acknowledge that you're wrong? Everyone here knows it and can see that. Repeating the same tired disproven opinions won't change that fact.

06-23-2009, 07:45 PM	#72
locke Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333 Posts: 195	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC No, that's just not how the law works. I suggest reviewing the information at Stanford posted earlier about transformative works. Also, your claims that I "leeched work" are unfounded and wouldn't hold weight without evidence. You can make all the outlandish claims you want but without any real hard evidence (of topics in which I have quite thoroughly proven the opposite) it won't be considered as fact. I have to say, "Mr Grammar Cop", that "your's" is not a word or valid contraction. I think you meant "yours" -- well obviously you're a child or at least an immature person because other people don't seem to take pot shots at my ego while delivering their retorts. You also don't apparently know what code is, considering I haven't posted any. I posted the output of the linux command "wc" Because I'm not wrong, not "everybody" sees it your way and frankly I'm tired of changing your diaper. Last edited by locke : 06-23-2009 at 08:00 PM.

06-23-2009, 09:03 PM	#73
Mabus Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 213	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC A few problems: 1) You have no "compelling public interest" for the transformative work to exist. 2) Your usage is not a parody, nor for purely informative or educational purposes. 3) Amount and Substantiality of the original work is extensive. 4) A modified DIKU is still available for sale. Your usage could cause harm. 5) The main body of DIKU is "a multi-user online text game", as is your derived work. 6) You lost any "fair use" when you violated the software license. You're grasping at straws when you are trying to claim it as a "transformative work". Also remember that software is not art and music. Courts have given more leeway to artists then to software developers, as deriving a work in art deals with impressions while using another coder's code (and claiming it as your own) is usually considered theft and/or piracy. And then there is that whole sticky issue that US Copyright Law does not apply with DIKU. You might want to check into "Directive 2001/29/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 22 May 2001 on the harmonisation of certain aspects of copyright and related rights in the information society " and "Copyright law of the European Union" (as well as treaties between the US and the European Union dealing with intellectual property). I will leave you with this: There are places that offer free mental health screening and aid. There is nothing wrong with having issues. You may want to seek help.

06-23-2009, 09:44 PM	#74
Samson Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: United Socialist States of America Home MUD: SmaugMuds.org Home MUD: Arthmoor MUD Hosting Posts: 249	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC This whole issue of "transformative works" does not even seem to be set in law yet? I mean, they're still debating it in terms of proposed changes as far as I can find through Google.

06-23-2009, 09:52 PM	#75
locke Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333 Posts: 195	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC Thanks for all of your unsubstantiated claims (and some boldfaced lies). See ya in the game!

06-23-2009, 09:56 PM	#76
Baram Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seoul Home MUD: Tears of Polaris Posts: 218	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC Your code is NOT "transformative work" it is a DERIVATIVE and always will be, and therefore subject to the DIKU license.

06-23-2009, 10:34 PM	#77
gth Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 50	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC There, fixed it for you.

06-23-2009, 10:59 PM	#78
locke Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Home MUD: nimud.divineright.org 5333 Posts: 195	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC No, it's not a derivative because it is transformative and falls under "fair use". o.o D -.o o For NiMUD, the answer to both of these questions is a resounding and obvious "yes"; I have provided substantial evidence for this in previous posts. Anyway, I'm done here. It's obvious to me there is no way to settle this argument with you, so unless you are going to file some sort of court action against me, which you can't, I suggest dropping it. As a show of good faith, I am not going to post on this thread again. Feel free to lie yourselves into whatever you would like to convince yourselves of. Cheers. Last edited by locke : 06-23-2009 at 11:08 PM.

06-23-2009, 11:07 PM	#79
Samson Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: United Socialist States of America Home MUD: SmaugMuds.org Home MUD: Arthmoor MUD Hosting Posts: 249	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC Except for the part where Mabus already explained why this is not the case. And for the part that "transformative work" isn't something that seems to be valid law as all the links I can find point to it being proposed changes to the law that the US Congress has not taken up yet. The copyright.gov website has only one link directly dealing with the subject, which is the PDF document those wackos from the fanfic site submitted to them. You're behaving just like them in that your argument sounds like you wish to deprive Diku of their rights in the same manner they want to allow fanfic writers to deprive the original authors of their rights.

06-23-2009, 11:08 PM	#80
Samson Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: United Socialist States of America Home MUD: SmaugMuds.org Home MUD: Arthmoor MUD Hosting Posts: 249	Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC There. Fixed it for both of you.

Legal Issues

Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC