Cripes, you really are an arrogant a**hole!! Listen to your partners & quit embarassing them!

Heh heh. That's too funny. My partners and I were taking bets on how long it would take before some idiot flamed us for donating money to help a non-commercial MUD promote itself. The prevailing sentiment was that it'd take 3 posts but it appears only 1 was necessary!

Chuckle-worthy.

Incidentally, what my partners objected to was lowering myself to arguing with people like you rather than just announcing what we're going to do and not worrying about whether you like it or not, as people like you don't matter. Believe me, they have even more contempt for your type than I do.

--matt

You've dropped to a whole new low with this one. Makes me wonder what sort of behind the scenes deal you struck with Mike.

Such abject paranoia. Must acts of outright charity be maligned purely for their source? Matt has maintained a long standing place in this community, and yes, of course it benefits him that the community continue to prosper. But hardly any more or nearly as much as it would any who wishes to take him up on his offer. Were it otherwise so perhaps the matter could reliably be called into question. However, seeing as how it is not, it is nothing more than irresponsible to so staunchly oppose such an act for little reason beyond a distaste for the man who has offered it.

A 'long standing place' of initiating plug after flame war after plug, disrupting the boards for everyone else, yes. And if he were really that interested in helping the community, why does he openly support those who steal the work of others?

How very kind of you ...

Is it just me, or this post just reeks of arrogance? "Make me laugh somehow, and I will throw you a slice of bread off my table, maybe."

I will be amazed if anyone will take this offer. Though I've been amazed more than once by behavior of people on these forums recently, so who knows...

There'll always be some prideless pauper in any community who'll relish the scraps from another man's table.

While I'm aware even as I write this that it'll get ignored as my connection with IRE obviously automatically makes me one of Matt's lapdogs, I don't remember him condoning anything Medievia does or doesn't do anywhere.

I'm not sure exactly where the idea that Matt is evil for offering a couple of advertisement places came from, but I have, as of yet, seen no logic behind it at all. Not all things are done selfishly, though Matt has often spoken of the "rising tide raising all ships", so if you must believe in some kind of self-serving motivation, that one is entirely plausible.

Go read some of the Medievia-related posts from yesterday in which Matt was taking on all comers that dared to disagree with their position - perhaps it will become a bit clearer.

Oh, and though i'm sure you could care less about one puny player - as someone that's been lurking here for a long time and mudding in various places for 10 years, i've lost any and all desire to ever play any IRE games after all the rubbish that was posted yesterday. Thanks guys!

Flawed analogy. Medievia continues to profit off of their stolen, uncredited work, and therefore continues to earn their status. They damage the community directly- several developers have cited their theft as the reason they do not presently care to release free codebases to the public.

Germany was welcomed back into the international community after they (forcibly) reconstructed their government, accepted responsibility for their actions, showed proper contrition, and, most importantly, ceased the acts that led to them being an international pariah.

Therein lies the problem - quite a large group of people (including myself) do not feel that Medievia has completed their pennance, or feel that they are not even attempting to repent & change.

Instead of accepting this, Matt seems to have chosen to treat anyone that disagrees with Medievia's position as a cross between an enemy and a total idiot - to the point where his business partners apparently had to tell him to stay quiet because he was generating bad publicity.

No matter how many times you, or Matt, or Soleil make the flabbergasted "We can't understand why you fools won't give up and accept us" posts, it's not going to change anything, and it's only going to cause more trouble for everyone. Since this mess began, I notice Medievia has slipped in the vote tally from being in 3rd to barely in 6th, for example.

There is such a huge difference between the two situations, I can't see how this is a valid comparison at all. There is almost nothing in common with Germany's reparations after the war atrocities, and the thieves of Medievia that refuse to even apologize, much less stop the problem acts.

While all I know about this situation is what I have read here, and what Lisaera has told me, all I have to say is simple. How do we know they didn't completely remove all the DIKU code, and are not 100% original? If they are, then good, and welcome back to the community. If they didn't, I'm sure it will be found out, and they will again be banned.

Because it's the same mud - all they did was increment the version number.

Incidentally, for clarification, I didn't mean the mud description has to make me laugh as in "Haha, you suck." More as in "Haha, what a great original concept." Quite a few MUDs have emailed me and while I'd like to be able to give the banner spots to all of you, I have to pick. I'll pick in a couple days to give people more time to see the thread.

--matt

#### it! I was really hoping I'd hear from them. I thought that was an interesting concept.

--matt

What do "great, original concepts" have to do with making people laugh? I don't see why would anyone be laughing at a "great, original concept"...

Don't you sometimes just laugh out loud when something delights you? That was my reaction to Age of Reptiles, for instance.

--matt

Hajamin: While all I know about this situation is what I have read here, and what Lisaera has told me, all I have to say is simple. How do we know they didn't completely remove all the DIKU code, and are not 100% original? If they are, then good, and welcome back to the community. If they didn't, I'm sure it will be found out, and they will again be banned.

Not even Medievia's Chief of Theft (or whatever they call their staff members) has claimed that they've implemented a clean restart. Their argument has always been "We've modified DIKU enough that the license doesn't apply to us", which doesn't hold legal or ethical water.

They're a modified DIKU, violating the license both in letter (no credits listed, using the codebase to generate profit) and spirit (the creators of the codebase have specifically condemned Medievia's use of it).

For a more involved discussion, see also:





As to why they have been allowed back, no official statement has been given to my knowledge.

How about a little more about the manner of these banners, would it be something on the lines of "Play GeneriMud. PRESENTED BY IRON REALMS ENTERTAINMENT, KNOWN FOR ACHAEA AND OTHER TYPES OF STUFF."  Or would this be solely advertising the MUD in question?  I may not be the most friendly towards Logos, but at least I can be civil unlike some people.  As for Medievia, I think that this thread is not for the discussion of their DIKU theft, but wasn't the original topic of this thread the supposed advertisement?

And if Hitler walked up to you and offered you free clothing, I assume you would accept it without question?  Not that Logos is Hitler, but the comparison conveys my point.

Beats me. Whatever banners the MUDs in question want to run. I'm just paying for the space, not developing their advertising for them.

--matt

Has anyone taken up this offer yet?

I invoke Godwin's Law.

But you haven't - and even if you had, intentional invocation is ineffectual (see ).

And Godwin's Law generally applies to the first person to invoke it (Lisaera), not the person replying to say it's not a relevant analogy.

This is one of the most repulsive marketing maneuvers that I can imagine. It's patronisitic, overbearing, and just spiteful. Here's a guy doing something that he believes in, so to spite him and the rest of the community, and to prove that money is the reason that TMS is here, lemme give one of you, the little guys, that can't charge for $$, a little help, just so you know how it might feel to be like me. It's repulsive.

'Repulsive'? I don't see how anyone can feel so strongly about this. Money is a #### important thing, you know, and whether or not you want to admit it Matt is obviously quite a bit more skilled at procuring it through this specific venue than many others.

So, no matter how 'conceited' this may sound, he is better than most of you when it comes to running a business, or at least this kind of business.

His offer is perfectly reasonable. He gets to look like the good guy (Whether he really is or is not is not a factor), three muds get to advertise for free, and, assuming that this is genuine, Matt gets to feel all warm and fuzzy inside for helping them.

No doubt my opinion shall be dismissed due to my IRE affiliations, but I am going to express it never-the-less.

I am moderately disappointed that just about every topic seems to descend into flaming and general insults, I had rather hoped that the MUDding community, due the obvious intelligence that actually having the attention span required to enjoy MUDs, would be a little more mature. As far as I can see, it appears to be a no-strings, simple offer for those who produce a MUD purely for the love of it, rather than for any fiscal gain.

It seems a nice enough offer, made without any particular ulterior motive, and I really would just let it lie. The people given the advertising space are going to gain from it, and nobody is going to loose.

I miss AoR sorely. God that was a good game, with such a great concept.

I've been considering asking voidrider if he would release the code for it to me, and I'd run it for him or with him if he'd be interested. Its definately worth preserving.

-H

No Matt. Your wicked little beard, pointy tail and pitchfork mean that even when you breathe, you're only doing it to increase the carbon dioxide of everyone elses air. You evil man you!

-H

I decided to take the plunge.

I've posted in the hope of getting Voidriders attention on the AoR boards which I used to run, here:

If anyone knows him, could they let him know please?

-H

I miss AoR. I was Rowr, then when he died I became his driven younger brother Rawr, bent on revenge.

It's blatantly not a an offer, that has no ulterior motive. Matt said so in his first post:

Rhuarc(sp?) of Mud Drake hosting has posted that he's going to cease advertising on Topmudsites because of the admission of Medievia. Iron Realms has nothing against Rhuarc, but we don't wish to see Synozeer lose out financially from his decision.


Which is spin. Instead of allowing someone else feel the void of someone who has ceased their advertising, Matt is taking it upon himself to save TMS. He says it in the last line, He doesn't want to see Synozeer. The people who have ethics and morals and are trying to make a stand against what they believe is right, are being slapped in the face by the Patranistic IRE, and commercial MUDs.

Oh, come on. Drop the holier than thou attitude.

Topmudsites likely brings in a large amount of players for IRE, and if TMS was injured it would likely reflect on some of their games. It is perfectly reasonable for them to want to invest a bit of money into the site, what with all the free advertising they get here for being on the Top 10 list.

That he's decided to let some others use the advertising space he purchased is just icing on the cake. And, as has been said, no one loses in this deal. There's nothing but benefits for both IRE and those who accept the offer. Well, save for the fact that a bunch of stuck-up forum members will flame them.

Also, what's the #### is this 'stand against commercial MUDs' that you seem to be supporting? The fact that they accept money makes them evil, or what? The exchange of currency for quality services, i'll have you know, is not a sin. It is, in fact, a perfectly 'moral and ethical' thing.

[quote= (Gorgulu @ May 14 2005,12:42)]Whether you love or hate commercial MUDs, the fact that they survive means they are providing a service that some people are willing to pay for. Just because some other people here are against commercial MUDs, it doesn't mean they are a bad thing.

I too see Matt's offer as a little arrogant, but that's just the way Matt is. It would be a very boring place if we were all clones of each other.

I think Matt is just trying to help out in his own way. If you don't like his offer then don't take him up on it, but don't hang others that do.

And for the record, I have no affiliation with TMS, IRE or any other MUD, this is just my opinion.

I don't know if anyone thought about it, but since Matt is paying for 3 more ad slots, he could very easily have just used them for ads for his own games and still accomplished the goal of making sure TMS didn't lose money from Ruarc (sp?)'s decision to pull his ads.

The fact that he offered them to other non-commercial muds really does seem like generosity to me. I don't think he entertains any illusions of the general populace here deciding they like him simply because of that gesture.

It seems to be his belief, just as it is the belief of many other admins, that we all benefit from the general hobby of mudding improving and from more muds being successful.

Of course, now that I defended the action I will be labelled an IRE lap dog despite the fact that I am not associated with them in any way and earn no money from them in any way. But that's how it seems to work around here.

What do you mean "now" that you defended him? You've been his lap dog for some time.

That's fine. Then if he wants to invest more money into TMS, let him. That's fine, I actually think that's got some pretty good banners. My problem is him trying to turn into some community outreach program, where he's helping the less fortunate Hobbyist muds that can't afford to advertise. That is what I'm railing against.


I have no problem against Commercial Mud's. And other then the way Matt has presented himself on boards, I have no real issue with IRE. I think that he'd be better off just doing a subscription based system, rather then having pay-for-perks, especially if as we heard, that you need to get the perks to play at any level of fun. MT, is immoral and unethical, IRE gives me that 'dirty' feeling. But when someone supposes to be doing a favor for the community when it is so blatantly self-serving, offends me.

Do you have any idea how idiotic you sound? The fact that you equate agreeing with something as being someone's lap dog points to a severe mental deficiency on your part.

Analyze the situation a little better. I make commercial muds. Commercial muds compete with each other for customers, business, and dollars.

Now tell me again why I am the lap dog of a competitor?

Please pull your head out of your ass.

Can you re-read what you said?

You are mad at someone for being generous. You are "railing against" someone who, in your own words, is "helping the less fortunate Hobbyist muds that can't afford to advertise."

Do you make it a habit to attack people who try to help others?

I'd just like to add, as long as we're being so PC and sensitive to each other's feelings or whatever, that that offends me. Whoops on you, Mr. Morals!

*cough*

Right, helping both yourself and others at the same time is wrong, is what you're saying. You are saying: I don't want Matt to be generous to them, I want him to sacrifice himself to them.

No you're not a lap dog because you agree. You are a lap dog because you defend his supporters and lash out at his detractors with extremely egregious misinterpretations and straw men. Just like the one above. And even when contrary evidence is posted that disproves your interpretation, you simply call troll or ignore it. I guess that's much easier than actually addressing an argument.

Still bitter from the last 100 times in a row you got trounced, Yui?

The way the Idiot Brigade around here equates agreement with lap dogism is absolute rubbish.

One of the main reasons these forums have been absolutely worthless for years now is because of CRT warrior/forum-jockey peons like yourself, Yui, who make people regret wasting their time to participate.

No, the reason the forums have declined in quality is because a certain individual has turned almost every thread into either a flamewar or an advertising spree. When this individual went away to start his own forums, the quality of posts rose considerably - until his forums flopped and he came back, at which point the quality has dropped again.

And the reason many of us consider you his lapdog is because you no longer appear to have any opinions of your own, instead just barking in agreement. It's a shame really, because many people used to consider you a respectable mud developer in your own right, but now whenever I see you've posted the only thing that comes to mind is "Which of the_logos views are you defending this time?".

What is it that causes a successful mud developer and administrator to give up his own personality and opinions?