[zombiedepot]

[Ilkidarios]

... And that someone should be me. Think about it, Adam, because I don't own a MUD, I'm the perfect candidate. I can make unbiased decisions regarding the closing of threads and deletion of posts.

[Lark]

I don't think Matt's objective, and the reason I say that is because he's got his own points to prove.

There's nothing wrong with that, but moderators are supposed to be above the conflict, and not express their own opinions for the sake of keeping an orderly board.

If you like to argue you shouldn't moderate, and if we follow that one home then I'd say better ninety-five percent of us (me, too) are already out of the running.

I enjoy snapping off a good one, occasionally kicking a little sand in someone's eye, and I try (try) to concede someone else's point with some grace.

(As an aside, I hope some of you are at least giving that last one a try-- it's like taking bitter medicine mixed with ground-up broccoli, but most grown-up things taste bad at first. The upside is that other people who drink the same awful stuff have more respect for you and occasionally give you a turn at being right.)

Anyway, summing up, I just wanted to say I didn't think Matt was the ideal, or even a passable moderator, from what I'd seen, but he's willing to put in the hours and Synozeer's got final cut.

[Ilkidarios]

Lark's right, that's what's most wrong with this forum.  Nobody wants to admit that someone else is right.  That's where half the arguments come from on here, not legitimate discussions, just flames.  And these flames wouldn't be a problem if this was a different forum, but because this is TopMud, one single flame can result in five pages of posts.

I mean, come on guys, if you're never going to change your point of view, say it. Then it can all be over.

[lovechiefs]

I don't agree.
I think Matt is doing a great job as moderator.

[DonathinFrye]

Matt has proven over and over again here that his only interest is in serving IRE and Achaea, and not the community as a whole. His community stances and attitudes towards other MUDs(he's widely considered extremely condescending to other MUDs here) have shown that over and over again.

As far as him abusing his moderator powers? I have had multiple posts criticizing his condescension and underhanded accusations of Aardwolf MUD recently deleted. When others began to approach the issue, Matt locked the thread(that was actually about promoting top non pay-for-perk MUDs).

I think that moderators should be proven to have good intentions to the community as a whole - but, based on other issues going on here right now, I do worry that Syno just doesn't care about the community aid aspect of this site enough to put Matt in his place.

[Anitra]

Ilkidarios @ April 01 2006,18:51
With all due respect, Ilkidarios, a Discussion Forum is for discussions. If everyone had the same opinions, or just politely agreed to disagree, there wouldn't be any discussions, and what would be the point in having a Forum at all then?

I agree that the tone here could be a bit more civil at times. I also agree that some of the mega threads are sometimes drawn out to the point of the ridiculous.

But that is because some of the questions in these threads are important to many of us. And since certain opinions, and even very constructive suggestions for improvements, are constantly treated in a condescending way or, worse even, ignored or deleted, people do get frustrated. This is one of the reasons why certain subjects pop up over and over again, to a point where most other topics are drowned. It is because those subjects are important to many people, and until something actually is changed, they will keep popping up.

But if only the subjects and opinions that coincide with those of the moderator will be allowed on the Forums in the future, then we are heading down a very slippery slope. Suppressing free speech is usually the beginning of something much worse. It may be possible to suppress certain opinions, but as a result the discussions will eventually dwindle and die.

I agree with DonathinFrye that matt is not objective. He only cares about the Mud community and this List insofar that it offers a potential source for him to get more paying customers for his games. His main interest is to promote the IRE games and to defend the position of those games on the list. Anything that even remotely threatens that position is against his interests, and he acts accordingly.

As for the other two moderators, Valg and KaVir, they too have strong opinions and express them frequently on the boards. But in all the years that they have been moderating here, I have never seen either of them delete any posts or close any threads because criticism was aimed at them or their games.

Matt has done both already, in less than two weeks. He certainly has not made a good start as moderator, and I fear that it won’t improve in the future either. With him as moderator censorship has entered the boards. Personally I prefer the flames, as long as free speech is allowed. Without it the discussion boards could just as well be closed down.

[Hadoryu]

Actually, Matt hasn't deleted posts or closed threads because they were critical of IRE that I've seen. He tried to clean up an otherwise productive topic and in the end when some particular posters were too insistent on derailing to suit their personal agenda, he closed the topic.

Matt's done his job as a moderator. And on this board there's no such thing as an unbiased participant - everybody is either the head of a particular MUD or a player of it.

[Jazuela]

This whole concept of "he's obviously biased therefore he can't moderate" is a bone of contention for me.

Outside the internet, you all have your own distinct personality, with opinions and vocabulary and habits and twitches. But you adjust all of this stuff in the company of certain other people, no?

Do you booze up with your co-workers at work? Do you get jiggy with your third cousin on top of the family reunion picnic table? Do you light up a smoke in the non-smoking section of the restaurant? Do you walk down the street buck-naked on a hot summer afternoon?

Just because we are "this way" in "this circumstance" doesn't mean we automatically behave the same way in "that circumstance."

When I was a player of a mud, I behaved one way, my way, the way that was natural to me. But when I became a staff member, I was all business, in a "customer service oriented" kind of way. Most of the time, I'm a staunch supporter of "stupid people suck" political party. But when I am given responsibility to oversee "stupid people" I become the gracious hostess.

Just because I have an opinion of something, doesn't mean I'm incapable of behaving contrary to that opinion when given the responsibility to do so. And I feel Matt, and the other moderators, have the intelligence and sensitivity required to do the same. Matt is certainly biased, and has his own personal agenda. But when he "puts on his moderator hat" he is a moderator, not "just another loud-mouthed forum member." I think he does a decent job of it.

[Fifi]

I think all of the moderators here do a pretty crappy job. The entire board is just a rinse repeat of the same six arguments. Muds are not really discussed apart from the question of which mud owner is most likely to be satan, who is dishonestly profiting from what and who should or could be sued. I often do not read the posts here for months, and much like a soap opera when I come back I've missed nothing because the main characters are still doing and saying the same things. And most of them, it turns out, are moderators.

[Ilkidarios]

There was this one time where somebody who played or worked for a MUD or something left the forums because of something somebody said about the owner of said MUD.  I don't even remember who it was now.

Does anybody else remember that?  I think a couple of people left for TMC.  It was around the time Tyche spazzed out and left. It might have been because of Medievia's return to the listings, which it subsequently left from, or it might have been before that. I don't know.

[Dunestalker]

I'm not saying that I've seen anyone abusing their moderator position. I'm not going to say that I haven't seen anyone abusing the position.

I will say that I don't believe -anyone- who is owner/staff on a mud listed here should be a moderator. It's a conflict of interests. No matter how hard someone tries, their decisions as moderator will be in some way influenced by their stake in a particular mud, to at least some minor extent.

[Angie]

But players are biased in exactly the same way. Do you suggest we hire some non-mudders to moderate a mud related forum?

Honestly, I haven't seen Matt (or any other moderator on here) abuse his moderatorship. Matt may be heavier-handed on the closings and deletes than the rest, but the threads in question were not getting anywhere anymore.

[Milawe]

This could be said of players of muds, too. We all have our own particular muds that we play and that we think are "the best". In fact, some players are more rabid in defending their muds than admins are. Lots of players, though, have no idea how the business side, the code side, or the balance side of a mud is decided or how it operates. Thus, they're operating with less information than the administrators.

The best moderators for any forums are the people who are actually willing to do it and stick with it. All of the moderators here benefit in some way from the existance of TMS, and thus, they have a vested interest in promoting the site.

[Dunestalker]

Yes, some players can have the same biases as well. In a perfect world, the moderators would be people that work for TMS strictly and aren't working for any of the muds listed.
I think it's -more- likely when someone has a -financial- interest in a particular mud that it will affect their judgment. Players at least, don't have a financial interest in -any- mud. Therefore, as the lesser of the two evils, I think that moderators should be selected from non-staff/non-owner people.

[Fifi]

My issue with the current moderators isn't their lack of objectivity, or any perception of bias. My issue is that every thread degenerates into flames. No one seems to be doing any kind of moderating at all. The fact that all of the moderators are amongst the main contributors of the acrimony and deterioration of every thread seems a logical explaination of this phenomenon

[Angie]

Like it or not, Matt, Valg, KaVir, Iluvatar and the other moderators are well recognised, long-time members of the mudding community. Ilkidarios, Dunestalker and Fifi are not. I'll rather have a mudding forum moderated by somebody who knows what's going on.

[Zion-Altari]

What is there to say, that hasn't really been said already? But wait... this whole thread seems to have turned into 4 pages of flames... Yes, flames, most of which are directed at Matt, and he seems to have done nothing about them. Now, I'm not going to say anything about Matt's a bad moderator, or he's a good one, or an y of the others, I'm just throwing in a suggestion.

Since your all complaining about Matt and KaVir and Valg being moderators, stop and think for a moment. Pay for perks, or free to play, Their respective muds are fairly big ones. If your concerned about Mods being involved in controversy, then get mods from the smaller muds, who arn't mentioned in these sorts of discussions.

[GuruPlayer]

Excuse me, but a moderator's job is not to invent new & original threads for viewers to discuss.  One of the problems is there are about a half-dozen posters who have a "bash the_logos" jones, & look for any excuse to flame him.  How else do you explain when the_logos posts a IRE promotion thread that turns into a 10+ pages of flames! Now I'm no the_logos fan, but this crapola is getting pretty old. And you have contributed to this "soap opera" by posting this thread, yet another slam against the_logos & then bitching about the moderation. Hell, if I were a moderator, this thread would have been long gone.

If anyone has some proof of the_logos, or any of the moderators abusing their authority, then show proof or STFU!

[Valg]

1) If Matt did close the thread, the same people could claim an abuse of power, (non-applicable) First Amendment rights, or something similar. Criticism of moderators is always tricky. If two were active, I'd say have the other one handle this thread, but I don't think that's the case.

2) Angry threads here really don't do anything, and in fact call into question your desire for a 'flame-free' environment. If you have a problem with the way Matt moderates, first take it up with him privately, then take it up with Synozeer, the only person who can or should do anything about it. If you just think Matt is a dick, that doesn't disqualify him from holding the position. I work in RL with a few people who I think are dicks, but I don't ask for them to be fired over it. If they were stealing money from the accounts, that would be a different story, because that has to do with the job in question.

3) It's not a negative when established, experienced MUD owners moderate a board about MUDs. They know the particulars about the issues in question, can sort posts into the correct topics judiciously, and they have an incentive to check in frequently.

4) You're always welcome to approach Synozeer about moderating a board yourself if you have the background, presence, and temperament to do so. He asked for volunteers a while back, and might still want some.