Tavern of the Blue Hand

Aspir · 10-05-2008, 03:57 AM

I am an Imm in a mud that is still being created, But I have no clue on how to get all my skills to 100% known. and have all skills possible for an Imm.

Can someone help me with this also...

Kylotan · 10-05-2008, 09:04 AM

If you can't work that out for yourself, you shouldn't be an imm on a MUD. Seriously. Read the help files and documentation, and the code if you're the coder. (Or ask the coder if you're not.) You should at least tell us what sort of MUD it is, since they all have different commands. Or weren't you aware of that? Try the 'sset' command. If that doesn't work, you're on a different type of MUD to me.

Fizban · 10-05-2008, 12:33 PM

Strange, I would have sworn I only had one username here, but you sir definitely just went Fizban on him.

Ontopic: It maybe: skillset <name> '<skill name>' '#' (all can typically be a name)

You can also possibly just restore yourself and it will do it via a while loop.

Newworlds · 10-05-2008, 02:23 PM

The real question is why not go to your owner of the MUD? Every MUD is different in how properties and functionalities and skills work. Some muds don't even use skills.

Good luck!

nasredin · 10-06-2008, 11:06 AM

Hi,

There is another possibility, too - some immortal commands may be restricted and the "lower" imms may have no access to them. In any case, you should ask one of the imps of your MUD - they certainly know how the things work.

On the constructive side, why do you need to set the skills? If you're a builder and need to test something, you may create a mob, set the skills on it (often, set_skills_on_mobile_command has less restrictions than set_skills_on_pc_command) and use your control of the mob to perform all the test tasks you need.

HTH,
Nasredin

telnet mud.arctic.org 2700

-----
- "Burn in the eternal reboot of Hell, heretic!"

- "Do you believe in MUD after life?"
- "ArcticMUD is my religion. There is life after death!"

Zeno · 10-06-2008, 11:18 AM

I always had that concern too. My builders would ask for all the skills. I ask why. They don't have a reason. Annoys the hell outta me.

Fizban · 10-06-2008, 06:58 PM

You certainly live in an optimistic world. Sadly many MUD owners have little to no clue how several things on their MUD(s) work.

nasredin · 10-07-2008, 04:32 AM

You certainly live in a pessimistic world.

The head of our immortal staff is a coder, i.e. the most knowledgeable person. I expected the same to be true for other MUDs, too. I can't imagine a stable MUD community where the coder is a wordless grunt and all decisions are made by a person that doesn't have a clue...

-----
- "Burn in the eternal reboot of Hell, heretic!"

- "Do you believe in MUD after life?"
- "ArcticMUD is my religion. There is life after death!"

prof1515 · 10-07-2008, 07:30 AM

Knowledgeable about the code perhaps but that might be it. My experience has been that 99% of coders are ill-equipped to be anything but a coder and totally unqualified to run the MUD in general (to be fair 99% of all imm staff are totally unqualified to run a MUD in general). There's a lot more than code to deal with and the reason so many MUDs have shallow, poorly-designed worlds is probably because the same person who codes also creates the stock, illogical, and flawed world design.

A person can make a decision without knowing how to implement it. For many coders, they know how to implement something but have no idea how to design it to interact seamlessly into the world.

Besides, why can't a coder be an integral part of a team where everyone has strengths and weaknesses and serve in their best capacities rather than via some extreme version of a coder as either in total-control or as a "wordless grunt"? That seems rather pessemistic to me.

Take care,

Jason
Who designed his MUD but does not code it because he's a code-tard.

nasredin · 10-07-2008, 08:50 AM

> Knowledgeable about the code perhaps but that might be it.

Well, I see what you mean. Technically, a programmer may have little understanding of the features that they pile together. However, the results are much better when the programmer understands the semantics and the relations of the objects that they operate.

Further on, I see a potential conflict here - the programmer will likely become bored by the tight rein and either leave the position or plot against the authorities. If the revolt succeeds, that becomes what you describe - a "shallow, poorly-designed world" created by an incompetent coder.

Perhaps, I got used too much to the elitist atmosphere of our MUD - there, a person must prove their understanding of various aspects of the game to become a high imm yet alone a coder. There are quite a few programmers among the players of Arctic and some of them are the imms, yet only a selected few were trusted to become coders.

> A person can make a decision without knowing how to implement it.

It depends. A skilled analyst may formulate the design requirements without paying too much attention to the implementation details, but the reality often kicks in. Certain designs may be rather difficult (or outright impossible) to implement, while their close variations may be much, much easier. There must be an architect, responsible for balancing the requirements with the implementation.

Once again, we arrive to the traditional IT role set:
Analyst - Architect - Implementor

In a small team (like the volunteer staff of a MUD), some of these roles - or even all - may be the same person. But in any case, all 3 roles must be present among the imps; otherwise any decisions will miss important points and lead to a disaster.

The history of ArcticMUD remembers a brilliant and well-thought-out analytical essay that covers a lot of what we discuss here (please note the date of the publication):

Take care,
Nasredin

-----
- "Burn in the eternal reboot of Hell, heretic!"

- "Do you believe in MUD after life?"
- "ArcticMUD is my religion. There is life after death!"

Newworlds · 10-07-2008, 12:11 PM

The reason for this is simple. Many MUD Builders (creators) do not know C code and do not understand the Unix system which most module MUDs are built on and come "out of the box" so to speak. Nor do they understand people management, skill setting, and storyline.

It is the same with all the kids that play the 3d games and want to be a game builder and buy a book and a CD that has a 3D engine on it and some basic code. After a year they realise that they need a sound engineer, graphic artists, story writers, and maybe someone who really nows how to code.

Hence, many try, few succeed.

10-05-2008, 03:57 AM	#1
Aspir New Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6	Immortal Commands I am an Imm in a mud that is still being created, But I have no clue on how to get all my skills to 100% known. and have all skills possible for an Imm. Can someone help me with this also...

10-05-2008, 09:04 AM	#2
Kylotan Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Nottingham, UK Home MUD: Abattoir (Smaug) Home MUD: ex-Jellybean (Smaug) Home MUD: ex-Dark Chambers (Merc) Posts: 174	Re: Immortal Commands If you can't work that out for yourself, you shouldn't be an imm on a MUD. Seriously. Read the help files and documentation, and the code if you're the coder. (Or ask the coder if you're not.) You should at least tell us what sort of MUD it is, since they all have different commands. Or weren't you aware of that? Try the 'sset' command. If that doesn't work, you're on a different type of MUD to me.

10-05-2008, 12:33 PM	#3
Fizban Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Name: Brandon Location: Shelby Township, Michigan Home MUD: The Builder Academy Home MUD: 4 Dimensions Posts: 144	Re: Immortal Commands Strange, I would have sworn I only had one username here, but you sir definitely just went Fizban on him. Ontopic: It maybe: skillset <name> '<skill name>' '#' (all can typically be a name) You can also possibly just restore yourself and it will do it via a while loop.

10-05-2008, 02:23 PM	#4
Newworlds Legend Join Date: Aug 2007 Name: NewWorlds Home MUD: New Worlds Posts: 1,425	Re: Immortal Commands The real question is why not go to your owner of the MUD? Every MUD is different in how properties and functionalities and skills work. Some muds don't even use skills. Good luck!

10-06-2008, 11:06 AM	#5
nasredin Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Name: Boris Location: Moscow Home MUD: ArcticMUD (mud.arctic.org 2700) Posts: 38	Re: Immortal Commands Hi, There is another possibility, too - some immortal commands may be restricted and the "lower" imms may have no access to them. In any case, you should ask one of the imps of your MUD - they certainly know how the things work. On the constructive side, why do you need to set the skills? If you're a builder and need to test something, you may create a mob, set the skills on it (often, set_skills_on_mobile_command has less restrictions than set_skills_on_pc_command) and use your control of the mob to perform all the test tasks you need. HTH, Nasredin telnet mud.arctic.org 2700 ----- - "Burn in the eternal reboot of Hell, heretic!" - "Do you believe in MUD after life?" - "ArcticMUD is my religion. There is life after death!"

10-06-2008, 11:18 AM	#6
Zeno Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Saratoga, NY Home MUD: Bleached InuYasha Galaxy Posts: 189	Re: Immortal Commands I always had that concern too. My builders would ask for all the skills. I ask why. They don't have a reason. Annoys the hell outta me.

10-06-2008, 06:58 PM	#7
Fizban Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Name: Brandon Location: Shelby Township, Michigan Home MUD: The Builder Academy Home MUD: 4 Dimensions Posts: 144	Re: Immortal Commands You certainly live in an optimistic world. Sadly many MUD owners have little to no clue how several things on their MUD(s) work.

10-07-2008, 04:32 AM	#8
nasredin Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Name: Boris Location: Moscow Home MUD: ArcticMUD (mud.arctic.org 2700) Posts: 38	Re: Immortal Commands You certainly live in a pessimistic world. The head of our immortal staff is a coder, i.e. the most knowledgeable person. I expected the same to be true for other MUDs, too. I can't imagine a stable MUD community where the coder is a wordless grunt and all decisions are made by a person that doesn't have a clue... ----- - "Burn in the eternal reboot of Hell, heretic!" - "Do you believe in MUD after life?" - "ArcticMUD is my religion. There is life after death!"

10-07-2008, 07:30 AM	#9
prof1515 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 791	Re: Immortal Commands Knowledgeable about the code perhaps but that might be it. My experience has been that 99% of coders are ill-equipped to be anything but a coder and totally unqualified to run the MUD in general (to be fair 99% of all imm staff are totally unqualified to run a MUD in general). There's a lot more than code to deal with and the reason so many MUDs have shallow, poorly-designed worlds is probably because the same person who codes also creates the stock, illogical, and flawed world design. A person can make a decision without knowing how to implement it. For many coders, they know how to implement something but have no idea how to design it to interact seamlessly into the world. Besides, why can't a coder be an integral part of a team where everyone has strengths and weaknesses and serve in their best capacities rather than via some extreme version of a coder as either in total-control or as a "wordless grunt"? That seems rather pessemistic to me. Take care, Jason Who designed his MUD but does not code it because he's a code-tard.

10-07-2008, 08:50 AM	#10
nasredin Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Name: Boris Location: Moscow Home MUD: ArcticMUD (mud.arctic.org 2700) Posts: 38	Re: Immortal Commands > Knowledgeable about the code perhaps but that might be it. Well, I see what you mean. Technically, a programmer may have little understanding of the features that they pile together. However, the results are much better when the programmer understands the semantics and the relations of the objects that they operate. Further on, I see a potential conflict here - the programmer will likely become bored by the tight rein and either leave the position or plot against the authorities. If the revolt succeeds, that becomes what you describe - a "shallow, poorly-designed world" created by an incompetent coder. Perhaps, I got used too much to the elitist atmosphere of our MUD - there, a person must prove their understanding of various aspects of the game to become a high imm yet alone a coder. There are quite a few programmers among the players of Arctic and some of them are the imms, yet only a selected few were trusted to become coders. > A person can make a decision without knowing how to implement it. It depends. A skilled analyst may formulate the design requirements without paying too much attention to the implementation details, but the reality often kicks in. Certain designs may be rather difficult (or outright impossible) to implement, while their close variations may be much, much easier. There must be an architect, responsible for balancing the requirements with the implementation. Once again, we arrive to the traditional IT role set: Analyst - Architect - Implementor In a small team (like the volunteer staff of a MUD), some of these roles - or even all - may be the same person. But in any case, all 3 roles must be present among the imps; otherwise any decisions will miss important points and lead to a disaster. The history of ArcticMUD remembers a brilliant and well-thought-out analytical essay that covers a lot of what we discuss here (please note the date of the publication): Take care, Nasredin ----- - "Burn in the eternal reboot of Hell, heretic!" - "Do you believe in MUD after life?" - "ArcticMUD is my religion. There is life after death!"

10-07-2008, 12:11 PM	#11
Newworlds Legend Join Date: Aug 2007 Name: NewWorlds Home MUD: New Worlds Posts: 1,425	Re: Immortal Commands The reason for this is simple. Many MUD Builders (creators) do not know C code and do not understand the Unix system which most module MUDs are built on and come "out of the box" so to speak. Nor do they understand people management, skill setting, and storyline. It is the same with all the kids that play the 3d games and want to be a game builder and buy a book and a CD that has a 3D engine on it and some basic code. After a year they realise that they need a sound engineer, graphic artists, story writers, and maybe someone who really nows how to code. Hence, many try, few succeed.

Tavern of the Blue Hand

Immortal Commands