[Dulan]

Well? Care to repeat that? This is a verbatim email, with all the important details removed. (Sorry, guys, but I'm not giving some twink Hans-Henrik's email. He'll have to find it out somewhere other than I.)

-D

[Orion Elder]

Don't need to repeat a thing. My e-mail is almost a year newer than your own, and furthermore:

I repeat:
"This is the main purpose of the license."

The main purpose of the license is to prevent you from charging for the use of the game and/or parts of the game. Hans-Henrik stated that. Are you in trouble for giving them prizes? No. You're trying to skirt that issue. Are they for accepting? Possibly... but, there are ways around it (one such way Suggested by Hans-Henrik) that are perfectly legal. Again, you try to skirt that issue.

I won't continue to argue the point, though, because without more evidence (which, btw, I have provided in abundance, and from more than one member of the Diku team), it's pointless to continue doing so.

[Dulan]

-shakes head sadly-

Yet again, you jump on an irrelevant point to the conversation, and try to divert it. Straw-man argument, Orion.

-pat- I'd write out a flame, but I've given up putting the effort in to flame you. You make extensive use of irrelevant information/straw man attacks, bud.

-D

[Orion Elder]

... The point of your whole argument is that ritaker is violating the Diku license, which Hans-Henrik has stated quite clearly that in no WAY is he violating that license by offering to pay, and furthermore even if he DID give them money he didn't violate the license. The only one who MIGHT be violating the license is the one who ACCEPTED the money, and there are legal ways around that.

But, this is a straw-argument, right... addressing your statements directly, providing evidence that proves you wrong, and all that. *ROFL*

You're simply trying to attack the basis of my argument because you're wrong and you can't handle it. Grow up.

[Yuki]

So the other day, at a convention for the mud I run, my good friend Rod and I play a game of Magic with a couple of good-hearted kids from Wadsworth, Ohio. Now, besides the fact that they put crack and mercury in the water there to ensure everyone is totally brain-messed, what ends up is a 4+ hour game leading up to around 9:30am when we decide to just quit.

Now, why did we quit? The two Wadsworthians spent nearly 90% of the time arguing over the rules, the cards, how they're being played, antics, unspoken rules, name calling, past aggressions, and nearly anything else they could find to bitch about.

My point? I swear every thread on here comes down to the same thing. It reminds me of the Simpsons where some geeky guy asks Homer and the Itchy and Scratchy lady how in Episode #something-or-other, when Itchy pulls out Scratchy's skeleton to play it like a xylophone, he distinctly hits the same rib twice, but it made obviously two different sounds. Are we to believe this is some kind of magical, make-believe xylophone?

You are a make-believe xylophone!!!

[Xanferious]

lol, it started out as a small conversation and turns into Dulan war 2, heh.

[Dulan]

Heh. Amusing, Orion. I point out your straw man-usage, and you actually make an effort to attack me based on my points then.

Yes, my statement was incorrect. It is not the MUD itself that is the license violator - it is the coder. However, KaVir has pointed out this before - if a MUD is willing to hire coders who violate the license so blatantly, it does not say any good things about the MUD.

-D

[Galdor]

Ah Yuki,
that was a truly inspired point. However, you're missing one very important benefit of seeing arguments like this. Anytime I get frustrated with some of the stupid arguments and petty name calling that I see on a seemingly daily basis at work I can come here and read pretty much any thread and realize that life really isn't that bad and could be much worse!

[KaVir]

Right - however the mud admin is knowingly helping/encouraging them to violate the license, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if they were putting themselves in a legally dodgy position as well.

After all, if I hired a hitman (or even just a thug to beat you up) I'd find myself in extremely deep trouble. The same if I hired an accountant to fiddle my taxes, or paid someone to steal something.

[Orion Elder]

Yet again, though, the point that it CAN be done legally is ignored. On this point both Hans-Henrik and Katja Gamby (Nyboe) agree.

And your example is flawed, KaVir, as hiring a hitman or an enforcer is illegal... (at least hiring I hitman is, and I'm fairly sure hiring an enforcer is as well) Offering money to someone, to code, is not.

I won't comment on the 'dodginess' of the situation, though, as I honestly don't know... ethically, it might not be as dodgy as you may think. Many people don't think of GIVING someone things to work for them as 'profit.' The fact that others receiving the goods could violate the license probably never enters their mind. Legally, it COULD be a problem, depending on how it is handled.

So, you wanna pay me to code for your DikuMUD? Ok, I'll program the code separately, then integrate said code into your DikuMUD. Simple solution for that is to write code that does what you want. Take the payment for the code. Then install it for free. That makes it legal, and that was the suggestion given by Katja Gamby. I am then being paid for code that has nothing to do with the codebase. I am expressly making it work for that codebase free of charge.

The same can be done for building, if you want to go through the effort of writing the area, taking the payment, then installing the area for free (in this case you're being payed for the 'art', such as base room descriptions, mobile ideas, etc). Then once you finish, simply go in, add the descriptions and tweak the area for that MUD. Again, legal.

Maybe a thread in the legal forum, about this subject, would be a good idea. Would stop the degeneration of this thread into a legal discussion.

For those curious to what Katja Gamby said:

Katja Gamby on 08/16/2002 at 5:33AM EST:
So... basically, do you work separate from the game, put it in the game for free, charge for the work you did before the installation.

[Dulan]

Hmm.

Hey, KaVir, doesn't Orion's arguments sorta remind you of Koldryn and his line of arguments?

-shrug- I keep reading his stuff, and have to keep checking back to be sure it's Ori, and not Kold.

-D

[Terloch]

I do believe the horse is dead, chopped into pieces, and is now the consistency of thin paste suitable for spreading on crackers. STOP BEATING THE DAMN HORSE AND SHUT UP ALREADY...

[Dulan]

Terloch......

Have you ever known the MUDding community to NOT beat a dead horse?

-D

[Orion Elder]

Dulan.....

Only when you're not around.

[Dulan]

Heh.

Koldryn, Orion, Koldryn. Even the whole dead horse argument.

(Amusingly enough, it is true. You got me to look at the old saved flames.)

-D

[AlazlamBL]