[Cirion56]

Personally I don't think ass kissing has to go along with a political theme. I only wanted a MUD with politics of some sort run by players, I didnt say I wanted to get involved personally in them.

I think you can have a decent game without guilds and ass kissing. What I enjoy personally is a game where I can pick a class and associate with a group of people if I choose to (read: clan) and if I don't want to be dragged into RP, because I feel like the guild or group is forcing me to RP my characters personality their way or even change my characters personality to fit them, then I don't have to put up with that. It's no different than me telling any of you to change your personalities to suit me. Also on a side note, I like how people say, "Well if you don't like it don't interact with that person," yet turn around and say, "This is whats right, you will play the game this way."

I wrote my original post hoping to find a MUD that would be fun and great and an atmosphere I liked but it seems like before it derailed, people looked at aspects of my post and just flew off the handles.

I said originally I wanted a game I could play for 10 minutes at a time IF THAT IS ALL THE TIME I HAD. I never once said there wouldn't be nights I'd sit on a game for 6 hours at a time roleplaying. I simply asked for a MUD where if it came to it, I had the OOC respect and understanding of other players where, if I had to leave suddenly, I was allowed to and wouldn't be shouted at next time I login. People immediately took that part of my post and said, "If thats the type of RP you want then I can see why you can't find one, idiot."

It strikes me as humorous that so many people who play text based games seem to be unable to read correctly and not jump to conclusions. I didn't think when I made this post I would have to spell out every little detail of what I meant and what I wanted. I figured people would post MUDs that were roleplayable but still had a degree of casual play which meant while I could still play for hours and hours, I could also login for 10-20 minutes, talk to some people and then logout with no trouble.

I appreciate the arguments and the massive debate that this thread has expanded into, what it was not but seems to have become, not only towards me, but towards others, and also other games, is a personal attack. I appreciate you've had a bad time with MUDs. So have I. I made that clear in my initial post. Hell, we probably all have.

I'm sorry of some people took this post as whining or whatever else they personally see it as, but it was nothing more than an attempt at a person trying to find an amazing game they could lose themself in, and create another persona in. Next time I'm looking I'll be sure to just keep my mouth shut, or find another place to ask that isn't so hostile. Though to be honest, with a few exceptions, I'm starting to learn, or rather, relearn, that the MUDding community is pretty hostile. Thank you again to all the people who actually are helping by either posting MUDs, or leading what has become an indepth discussion on what people want from a MUD and what a MUD truly is.

[Darren Brimhall]

Monarchy is a form of Government, and was present in full force during the Renaissance age. And therefore worth discussing here.
I have no trouble playing under such, or any other form of government found in MUD. What I have troubles with are certain players, and staffers, who are overly dominate and care about having power with in a Game--which eventually ruins it, even for those players who've been there for a very long time. That is what gets tiresome, and what I'd dearly love to see are the site's operators bring it to an end.

Now back to the current discussion on Governments, which this thread now seems heading in, not only does Monarchy have much to do with the discussion at hand especially concerning Mideval-based MUD's, but is also a viable system that is being used in MUD's--including those with a science-fiction theme, where you either have:
1. A directly ruling Monarchy over all aspects of its territory.
2. A Monarchy that works through Bureaucratic 'layers' that shields them.
3. An overwhelming Bureaucracy (either along the lines of 1984 (with its police) or Brazil (with all that paperwork)) that is in every way an over-grown, over-reaching, and overly-inefficent to the point that it meddles in all aspects of life-pretty much like present governments are lately.

Also, the farther outward one goes from the more established areas of Govenrment, the more they'll find states of Lawlessness--as it was in the Wild West. Star Wars and Firefly had this fact as a significant part of their story universes, as well as many other literary works.

These facts, and the rest mentioned in this post, are what I keep in mind while helping build Eterena.


Darren Brimhall

[Genesis]

Perhaps if your 'sentences' had some semblance of proper structure it would be easier to follow in the future. Regardless, re-read the message I initially quoted and you will find that in the actual English language you in fact stated that the topic being discussed was 'stupid'. I cannot be held accountable for your own lack of writing ability and/or laziness.

Regardless, granted that you clearly don't understand what it is we were actually discussing (which was not "how to have a political MUD with the absence of a political system" as you have stated above but rather the complete opposite) your response is, at best hypocritical.

This comment is ironic granted that off the two of us, you're the only one who's degraded to tossing insults with the literacy level of a 9 year old. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

Evidently we have had different experiences with guilds/clans in the MUDs we've played. In most games I have played, the term "clan" and "guild" are synonymous. I'm not sure why joining a clan/guild would impose the restrictions you've described above, beyond that most guilds have a typical theme, objective or cause that draws them together.

If any of this was meant towards me, I ask you not misinterpret my analysis of your original post as hostility. The intention of my initial response was to critique (constructively) the list of attributes you provided and help you refine various contradictions I perceived in the original post to assist you in narrowing down a MUD that would best suit your tastes. It was intended earnestly to assist you, but if you do not wish my feedback on it I will simply drop it.

At any rate if I do come across a MUD such as the one you specified I will be sure to notify you of such.

Certainly, as I mentioned in the very post you just quoted. My point was that you failed to elaborate on any of the reasons "why" it's relevant to the thread, and instead just said "I don't like those because a game I was banned from used that system".

I'm not going to address this too deeply, because once again it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. You are fudging the lines between in-character and out-of-character. The IC societal values of a fictional world have nothing to do with the players behind the characters sitting at their computers. If you wish to play a character in a video game based in the 1500s era and have your fictional character insult the fictional king of that fictional world, there will be in-character fictional consequences for your fictional character (who is fictional, in case you missed it the last time, and thus is not you).

Moving back closer to the topic at hand, it is unlikely that any MUD that takes place in a historical medieval society which has run under a monarchy since the game's creation 10 years ago is going to switch from that setting for no apparent reason. The IC monarchy is meant to represent the 'absolute rule' that countless historical sovereigns held over their lands and people up until as recently as... well as recent as today in some countries though it's meant more to symbolize the 1500s and prior.

Any MUD you search for that has Kings and Queens and Knights (or even some futuristic games or those completely irrelevant to real-world history) have similar systems. Even ICO and Grendel's Revenge which you have cited in this thread contain something to that extent do they not? I know ICO at least has nobility which is highly evident of a feudal society, and Grendel's has a "monster King" or something similar I believe.

[Darren Brimhall]

The same goes to you as well. This thread was never about how to play Govenernment, it was about the original poster looking for a MUD that they could spend 30 or so minutes in and still have enjoyment.


Sadly, you are wrong. Players who hate other players do act out their OOC hatered ICly towards that Player's Character. I have been the victim of it at that game from more than one person, and have such logged. However, again, Staff wont act because the players are popular and favored. So what else could I do but leave.


Yes ICO has a very active set of Nobles, far more than the Castle does, and I'm well liked there. Plus the strata levels of power are very easily defineable, and inpedent action is allowed
Grendle's Revenge isn't quite so active. In fact, you can go through the entire Game without even comming in contact with them. And your character there can act as independently as they please, for however long you stay there.


Darren Brimhall

[WarHound]

This thread is like a snuff film. I knew on the first page I should have closed the window and never looked back but... I couldn't. There is something sickeningly fascinating about it. Darren is... He's....

HAHAAHAHAHAHA!

[Darren Brimhall]

Then its time to put it down.

Darren Brimhall

[Genesis]

No, lol, it doesn't go to me as well. The OP clearly indicated he was looking for a MUD with political roleplay in it, and so the topic of political roleplay is valid.

Your personal grudges with Marrach (which you seem to try to turn every single thread into) on the other hand have nothing to do with it.

Riiiight. See my above comment.

You realize the irony in the fact that both ICO and Grendel's are owned by the same company as Castle Marrach and has a lot of the same players and even some of the same staff?

[Darren Brimhall]

Yes, well while he wants Political Roleplay, the bulk of his wishlist would clearly eliminate Marrach without any effort at all--especially the parts concerning Applications, Guilds, Tasks for Classes (apparently he hates writing lengthy papers), Casual Enviroment to play, both reasons on Helpful Players and not having Multipul races.

My personal gruges not withstanding, it looks like the Op will give the Castle a clean pass.

And yes I do know who owns ICO and Grendel. I also happen to know that several players in both games, as well as the Eterenal City, do not like Marrach at all largely for the same reason that I do. And several in ICO have told me that they go there from Marrach to 'have fun'.
Now, why aren't they having fun in Marrach? And, why aren't they treating me, as they easily know who I am, with the same level of distain in ICO as you do here?

And lastly, I left Marrach on my own--and willingly--after posting my frustrations in depth. The Banning occured without any appealing of it, or the opertunity to present my evidence to counter the claims against me. But I do intend to return, one way or another when the opertunity presents itself.


Darren Brimhall

[Darren Brimhall]

Actually, 'Staff' of one Game cannot be the Staff of another there. This isolates the Game's from each other on an Administrative level, leaving them more focused upon the tasks of running the Game they are Staff of. Players, on the other hand, are free to move about from Game to Game with ease--but not as the same character. Each Game requires the creation of a new character for its specific enviroment.
So while the name is the same, the appearance is different.

As for ownership, Grendel is Skotos property--created and developed by them.

Ironclaw on the other hand is the MUD based version of an already successful tapletop RPG, the creators of which are a part of Skotos under a Co-Operator's contract. If they decide to end that contract, for whatever reason , ICO will revert back to its original owners just like The Eternal City will.


Darren Brimhall

[DBIADB]

I have ADHD too. Does that mean I am a special snowflake whose character in a MUD cannot be punished when he misbehaves, or not face any consequences when he makes mistakes? Does that mean I am the only player with ADHD who should get these in-character benefits for my character, but any other character from players with the same condition as I can't?

Also, sorry to burst your bubble Darren, but if Skotos were to disappear tomorrow, so would IronClaw Online. Just because the tabletop game is owned by Sanguine Productions does not mean they would be interested into moving the Skotos version to their own servers and operate it. Just because a company sells a license to another company to build and operate a game based on their product does not mean they want anything to do with it.

[Genesis]

Darren... just... lol. Sometimes you say things, bro, and I don't even know where to start correcting you.

Since this is the only thing you've posted in 3 pages of this thread now that has anything to do with this discussion I suppose I'll reply to this.

And you're right, actually (see, I knew you could do it sooner or later). Marrach is, in numerous ways, precisely the type of MUD the OP is not looking for, and surprisingly for a number of the reasons you posted.

That said, it's amusing that you simultaneously advise against CM while recommending ICO when ICO is essentially the exact same genre of MUD (a political drama) owned by the same company, only set in an anthromorphic renaissance instead of a high fantasy medieval setting. I'll lend you some credibility that ICO is slightly more system based than CM, having a lot more free reign on crafting systems and so on, but it's still a roleplay-enforced opera highly centered around politics between guilds and noble houses (all things the OP indicated he wanted not to deal with). The same reasons why I would recommend against CM are why I would recommend against ICO, not that either of them are bad games, they're just not what the OP has asked for.


The rest of your posts not only have absolutely nothing to do with this thread (it's like there's an echo in here) but are so far from being accurate I wouldn't even know where to begin correcting you even if they were. Please keep your comments related to MUDs in general and their relation to the criteria the OP listed as opposed to your own unrelated personal gripes and experiences and how you think you were treated unfairly.

[Darren Brimhall]

I was wondering when you'd return. It just...was a feeling.

And to burst your bubble as well, Squire Ambra's player also suffered from ADHD, which caused her to loose concentration and be forgetful--which came through as she played her character. She too recieved benifits from playing in character (she was one more step away from becomming a knight) but largely the Game was a source of enjoyment in her hardscrabble exsistance. She didn't, and wouldn't, use it as a crutch at all. But in the end it didtn't matter, as she was constantly being ground down by the other players. One very popular player, who helped in this, put it quite bluntly to me, "Oh, its just Ambra" then went on to espress her OOC opinion that equated Ambra to Elmer the Dog .

Some of us, including myself, did help her which is why she continued to play. But in the end the meanness finally got too much for Ambra, and she left.

I have it logged, as with many other incidents, and have willingly given copies of these logs to persons associated with Nancy and myself in Second life--largely from what she's told them. And they agree with what we've told them about Marrach, as many of them also MUD.
Maybe you'd want to talk to her about it. You'll be the first from there to actually speak to her over E-Mail, as may have promised but just can't spare five lousy minutes to do so.

Another thing is that the Ironclaw MUD is popular. Why would they not be interested in moving it to their own servers, or someone elses especially as you say if "Skotos were to dissappear tomarrow", what would prevent Sanguine from setting up their own server and running it? It could be run from something as simple as an average Computer case with a couple of Terabyte drives. Programmers can be hired, or found through connections in the Gamer Community.
Yes, it can be done quite easily--and cheaply.

Darren Brimhall

Darren Brimhall

[Darren Brimhall]

Actually ICO is much, much better than Marrach due to the amount of opertunities there for a character to pursue, coupled with the need to 'work' to earn the money for everything rather than have it given to you--which is an excellant Roleplaying opertunity. And the fact that many of the players in ICO left Marrach for simular reasons to mine, which is why they and the Staff strive dilligently to make ICO not just another Marrach clone in those reguards.

As for what I say here, as long as it doesn't break the rules reguarding postings here (which I do review constantly) I will say what I want, even if it's against Marrach. And you, and your allies, have the same right to be the opposite with your views.

I was treated unfairly there, as was Nancy and others, largely because of the habit of other players to 'jump on' us if we made a mistake. But then, the Game, any game for that matter, is what its players make of it.
But jumping on players for making even the most minor mistakes, be it intentional or not, tends to make them leave quite embittered. And while they may not be a vocial as I am about the place, they do have their friends and move with in their circles--sharing their personal exsperiences on the games they've played...

And if they refuse your offer to play there, please don't be surprised if they refuse it. Just don't ask why-you wont like the answer.


Darren Brimhall

[Genesis]

Better and worse have nothing to do with this thread. Once again you fail to comprehend the utterly simple concept that this thread is not about CM and why you dislike it. You're the only person I've met in my life stupid enough to consistently reply to an observation of "this is irrelevant" with more claims backing up the argument we just established was irrelevant anyway.

Nowhere did I say any game was better or worse than any other game. Neither of the games meet the criteria the OP indicated so neither of them are recommended for the OP to play regardless of which game you think is better. What part of this terribly mundane logic is so confusing to you that a week later you're still incapable of grasping it?

You can speak against Marrach all you like, I couldn't care less to be honest. In fact, by all means please make a thread titled, "Why Darren hates Castle Marrach" so that you can toss every single one of your 112 meaningless posts in that thread where at last it might actually be relevant to the topic at hand for the first time in your life. My point has been, from the moment you started crying this river nobody cares about, that it has nothing to do with this thread and no one cares.

If you "review the rules of the forum constantly" as you just claimed then please review the part where it says posts should remain on topic to the thread. Your fictional sob stories about how the world is out to get you have nothing to do with this thread or any of the other threads you've posted them in.

For the love of god Darren trying to debate something with you is like trying to discuss physics with someone who can't comprehend grade school level math. I can't even get to the actual debate part because you simply can't even understand what's actually being discussed and why nothing you're saying matters even if it were true. If I didn't know from years of experience that you lacked the mental capacity for it, I'd think you were deliberately acting a complete dolt as some form of remarkably impressive trolling routine.

Not that there is much to salvage of the OP anymore, but if following this very clear explanation of why your arguments are utterly inconsequential to anything related to this thread you can't process this simplest understanding I'm simply resolved to reporting your irrelevant posts so that the rest of us can get on with discussing the topics these forums were actually intended for.

[Darren Brimhall]

Very well
I was meerly puting in my opinions, without becoming insulting towards those who post, nor trying to dominate it in anyway.

I'm sorry that you were so very offended by my behavior, but you your self did nothing to convince me that I was otherwise wrong in my beliefs.

You have your opinions, and I have mine on this matter

So with that, I suggest that this thread be closed and done with.


Darren Brimhall