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Old 02-07-2003, 10:28 AM   #1
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 153
OnyxFlame is on a distinguished road

What do you do when you have tons of ideas for a MUD but don't know how to code and don't particularly enjoy coding anyway?

I had my own MUD briefly, but it was such a pain trying to learn how to code from the examples in it. Even the socials were coded in 3 different ways because several groups of coders had apparently played with it at different times and all had different styles. (And they were buggy anyway. Worked fine for imms but regular players would see every emote twice.)

I couldn't run one on my comp because we have a 56k modem and I can't stay connected 24/7. I have no money to pay for someone else to host it. And I don't really know how all that stuff works anyway hehe.

Most importantly, a lot of my ideas involve in-game economy, and even if I could somehow get a MUD up and running, I wouldn't have enough players to test it out properly.

I could easily become a creator on the MUD I play, and they'd train me up and everything. Problem is, I'm not sick of playing it yet, and most of my ideas don't quite fit its theme anyway.

So what do I do? Every time I post one of my ideas on here, I have to wait for weeks for anyone to respond with their opinion of it, and usually it just kills the thread anyway. So I don't even know if my ideas are good/feasable, let alone how to do anything with them.
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Old 02-07-2003, 10:48 AM   #2
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My suggestion would probably be for you to find a mud similiar to your own (at least in code) and try to get an IMM Position there to implement your ideas.

Ideas seem to be the easy thing : coding and implenting them are the hard part. So if you can find a mud that has lots of coders, but having trouble coming up with ideas, you can pair your ideas with their coders and make an awesome team.

Of course, you've also stated that you aren't done PLAYING the mud you're currently on, and that makes it tougher. It makes it difficult to Play one mud, and IMM on another mud.

Most IMMs I know have at least played the mud they IMM on, for how else do they know the feel of the mud, what the mortals go through, etc?

Anyway, it is an option. I suppose it is also an option for you to post your ideas on here, and hope that someone uses them, but that is far less fulfilling than seeing them come to pass on your own mud.

hope that helps a bit ?

I know on our mud, we have LOTS of ideas, lots of good ideas even - but having the time for the coders to work on them is very difficult.

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Old 02-07-2003, 11:51 AM   #3
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If you feel you must IMM somewhere, then IMM on the mud you are currently playing at. If you still want to play that mud, do so; it will help you in IMMing there.

It will be a lot easier to get an IMM position on another mud if you can say you have been a reliable IMM elsewhere and are ready to move on. And by that time, you may be ready to quit playing the other mud.
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Old 02-07-2003, 12:12 PM   #4
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Location: Chicago, Illinois
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I feel your pain in a way Onyx. I -am- a coder, but honestly, my ideas flow faster than I can code them, and are usually a bit more complex than I know HOW to code them. Luckily for me, I have a head coder who is used to my flurries of emails with ideas spouting off in torrents, and then she puts them in code, more effectively and faster than I could ever imagine myself doing.

So, you have two options really, at least imho...

1) Get on an imm staff where your ideas are taken heavily into consideration (possibly would have to be your own mud?).

2) Learn how to code what you want yourself, and more than likely, have your own mud...

I do agree that getting some experience on an imm staff is useful. What I would recommend is sitting down with the people who code and/or are the decision makers for where you play, and see if your ideas would work there, and/or if they won't and how they could be added in. Ask to be kept involved in the process and to see the code they are adding in for your idea so that you have a better idea of how/what is going on and how it's being implemented...

Complete freedom to do what you want isn't even a guarantee even if you HAVE your own mud though, there are plenty of ideas that I've wanted to put in (or have put in) that the players and staff either didn't like, or didn't use, or just flat out hated....keep that in mind too...
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Old 02-08-2003, 10:27 AM   #5
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OnyxFlame is on a distinguished road

To those who've said I should imm on the mud I play:

That'd be great, in a way. They've wanted me to do it for a few years now and I keep refusing. Why? For one thing, after you reach a certain level of immhood, you can't have a mortal char to just wander around and PLAY, just test chars that end up obviously being test chars. Also, I don't really WANT to know how the code works until I'm sick of playing. I like trying to figure it out from a player's perspective and knowing how everything works would take all the fun out of it bigtime. And even though I've been playing there for over 3 years now, there's still a lot of races and guilds and houses that I've yet to try playing in, and I still haven't figured out how to make a good fighter, and I haven't touched thief skills since they were changed some months back. Maybe my expectations of myself are unrealistic, but I'd like to experience every facet of the game that I can as a player before I take the plunge, in hopes that it'll give me more sense of how everything would balance out and such.

I've suggested a LOT of ideas in my time there, and some of them were actually coded. Mostly different kinds of food. The thing is, the kind of ideas I'm having now would take a LOT of work and would totally change the way the gameworld operates (if they work, anyway). So if I start suggesting them all, it'll seem like I don't like the mud the way it is now and want to totally change it around, which isn't true at all. And we're very low on staff as it is (approximately 4 coders who ever log on regularly and do anything useful) so they're most likely to tell me that they don't have time to code my ideas even if they actually like them. I'd probably get a big fat NO, that sucks.

And regardless of whether I was coding or just suggesting as a player, I don't wanna screw up my mud just because I have an idea I think is cool but really isn't. Sure they have a testmud and at least one creator has his own mud to fiddle with, but I'm not even going there. I really do like design more than coding, heh.

There's a couple groups of players who either have their own muds or have the knowledge to code them, if not the time. I'd really love to grab some of them and have someone else do all the dirty work and me tell them what to do, but it don't work that way.
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Old 02-08-2003, 02:36 PM   #6
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Suggesting ideas doesn't have to mean you don't like the mud you play.
It DOES mean you care about the mud and want to add to it in some way.
Part of the Implementor's job is to take suggestions and evaluate them, compare them to the mud as it stands now, and the direction the Staff wishes to take the mud. It is always difficult to tell someone they have a great idea, but unfortunately we cannot use it because it doesn't fit the theme we have going. Or that the idea would unbalance us. But, that is part of the Implementor's responsibilities.
Not every idea can be included in the code. But then again, not every unused idea is useless. Sometimes it can suggest a way around a block they've had in coding a planned upgrade. Or it can suggest a variant of your idea which _would_ fit into the mud theme/direction.
Sometimes players can feel their contributions or suggestions are ignored. Especially if the Staff only uses part of the idea, and it isn't a very visible snippet. Sometimes the greatest impact is letting us know what the players may be misunderstanding, or have misconceptions about in the mud.
I shudder to think where our mud would be without the suggestions, ideas and sometimes off-hand jokes our players have made. No, not all have been visibly incorporated, but many have. And all have been useful in some way or another.

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