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Old 01-16-2004, 08:38 PM   #21
Aardwolf
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Being the only mud in the current top 5 that accepts reviews, I am probably going to remove that option for Aardwolf too. With few exceptions, of the 30+ reviews that we have almost every one of them is:

1. An unprompted rant from an Aardwolf player on how great the mud is. I cringe just as much as anyone else when I see a 'This mud is the best! Play it!' review.

2. An unprompted flame for Aardwolf not being something it has never claimed to be - any kind of roleplaying environment. If that offends you then look at it another way, we're doing you a service by offering a home to those people you probably don't want on your RP mud anyway.

This week, we even have a couple of reviews in there for another mud that won't accept reviews - the poster clicked on the first link they could find. In summary, after trying it out for 3 months - based on the content so far I don't feel that allowing reviews offers any value to Aardwolf or any value to the readers of this site looking for an objective opinion on what the MUD is about.
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Old 01-16-2004, 11:06 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
1. An unprompted rant from an Aardwolf player on how great the mud is. I cringe just as much as anyone else when I see a 'This mud is the best! Play it!' review.

2. An unprompted flame for Aardwolf not being something it has never claimed to be - any kind of roleplaying environment. If that offends you then look at it another way, we're doing you a service by offering a home to those people you probably don't want on your RP mud anyway.
Exactly. The reviews anymore just aren't worth anything. If there was an honest review site with folks that actually sat down on a MUD and tried it out for the sole purpose of an honest review, it'd be different. That just isn't the case here, in my opinion.
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Old 01-17-2004, 03:47 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Molly O'Hara @ Jan. 16 2004,17:47)
Yes I am still suspicious. YOU may find your explanations ‘rational and well reasoned’ - I think that you dodge the real issue; Why do certain Muds get bashed more than others?

I dodged it by taking it head on and giving two example explanations? You even responded to them both so I know you didn't miss them. How can you accuse me of dodging the issue when I addressed it directly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by (Molly O'Hara @ Jan. 16 2004,17:47)
The second statement I can agree with. Naturally the larger the playerbase, the more Twinks you get. You might even get more than the usual percentage, because Twinks are attracted to high numbers.

You even agree with one of my explanations for why some muds get bashed more than others, and yet you have the gall to accuse me of dodging the issue? That's ridiculous. I realize you've made it one of your life goals to contradict ANYTHING I post on any forum anywhere, but you should pick your battles better and avoid contradicting yourself so obviously.


Quote:
Originally Posted by (Molly O'Hara @ Jan. 16 2004,17:47)
You are actually asserting that other Admins – (or jealous cretins, as you so politely label them) - would post bad reviews about your game, because it has ‘high quality’, and they are jealous of that?
Yes, that is exactly what I am asserting.

Are you so naive that you do not think this happens? Are you really this clueless?

This is a phenomenon that is not unique to Mudding. Microsoft does everything it can to "give a bad review" to linux: even in the area of security! They make up outright lies because nobody has the money to challenge them in the courts. They do this because they are jealous and fearful of what Linux represents to them: a threat.

It is a common business practice because it is common human nature. When people are jealous of something or someone, especially when that thing or person excels at something THEY wish they could do, a very common reaction is to attack or impugn the target of their jealousy.

If you are incapable of understanding this, then you are beyond hope.

Before anyone gets carried away, I am not saying this is the ONLY reason someone might write a bogus, bash review. It is ONE of many reasons why open reviews are worthless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by (Molly O'Hara @ Jan. 16 2004,17:47)
So what are you saying here? That other Admins would play your game, find out that it has higher quality and better features than their own, and then post a bad review out of sheer spite and jealousy? That is not only generally insulting and extremely arrogant, it strikes me as positively paranoid.
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. However, I did not make it an issue of "my mud" as you seemed to do out of nowhere. I have actually SEEN this exact thing happen when I was a player on both of two rival online RPGs: Admins and players of both games raged war on each other via website reviews.

Wake up. It happens every single day in every single walk of life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by (Molly O'Hara @ Jan. 16 2004,17:47)
So, yes, I am still suspicious.
Then I offer two more attempts to allay your suspicions:

1) Obviously Synozeer *knew* there were very good reasons that a mud admin would not want to accept reviews, or he wouldn't have made it an option.

2) Read the "Aardwolf" post at the top of this page. While he makes almost the identical point I already made, perhaps you'll manage a split second of objectivity and let it sink in since the message comes from someone other than me.

Perhaps someday you'll understand.

Until then, you will apparently be content with sniping at others because they don't do things "your way."
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Old 01-17-2004, 06:05 PM   #24
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It's simple really.
Games have a right to accept/deny reviews if they wish.
If you really want to say something about somewhere THAT bad, post a thread -- and you'll see, you'll get lots of responses.

The fact is, most people who are really really really itching to write a review about a place (even if they have GOOD points to make) are really really really itching to write a review because they have a bone to pick. I started playing the MUD I am playing now because of a bad review. I went to check out things for myself. I never left. Gosh, I guess it's a matter of personal preference and experience. Go figure.

While I am not adverse to reviews, they are not necessary. Who ever said you could trust a reviewer? Regardless of reviews, people log on and find out for themselves. A few facts, may they be good or bad, about a Mud will do so little to actually sway the opinion of a person who has not had first hand experience, it's laughable.
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Old 01-17-2004, 11:05 PM   #25
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<troll>
<flame>
<review>
All your muds blow goats.
</review>
</flame>

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Old 01-17-2004, 11:06 PM   #26
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Just kidding

</troll>

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Old 01-18-2004, 05:37 AM   #27
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There seems to be a general agreement among most Admin on the list - (including myself) -  that about 99% of the reviews in their current form are useless, because they are either:
a) shameless plugs, mostly written either by the Admin themselves, or by players receiving - (or hoping for) - some kind of reward from the Admin for writing them
b) blatant flames, usually from disgruntled ex-players who want to get back at the Game for different reasons.
The b) category can of course be divided into 3 sub-groups: Players who were rightfully punished for being obnoxious or cheating, and are now posting out of sheer spite, players who cannot cope with changes, and players who actually have a valid reason for their discontent  (The Staff isn’t ALWAYS right you know).
According to Threshold there is also a 4th category of the flamers; jealous Admin, who want to bring the competition down. (While these certainly exist, I still believe they are in the minority. Maybe this is wistful thinking on my part, but I’d like to keep at least some illusions about my fellow administrators).

I too think that the reviews are pretty useless. I too very seldom bother to read them or even browse them, and in the few cases I do, just out of curiosity, I usually get my opinion confirmed. I too would be among the first to applaud, if Synozeer decided to get rid of all reviews in their current form.

However: I very rarely play other Muds myself nowadays, because running a Mud is more or less a full time business. I think the same applies to most of the posters on these boards. But obviously not all. At least some of the readers must be players. And even some of the Admin obviously don’t regard the ‘reviews’ as totally worthless.

How can I assert this? Well, one thing you learn as Admin is that players - even very happy players - rarely write reviews or even click vote buttons on their own initiative. (I think that most Admin will agree on this common trait in players). If you want them to do it you have to urge them, either by reminding them on line more or less incessantly, or by giving some kind of reward that makes them think it’s worth the time and trouble.

Now, I have yet to see an Admin admitting to doing this, but at least to me it’s pretty obvious that some do. The inordinately large number of 'praise reviews’ that some Muds get is a sign of this. So, apparently, some Admins think that these reviews are having some kind of positive effect on their mud. Possibly not the review in itself, because anybody with half a mind would pretty soon spot the pattern. The effect they are after is probably seeing the name of their mud displayed on top of the Webpage, as often as possible. Those are the 2 golden rules of all advertisement; Exposure and Repetition. Some experts even believe that ALL exposure is good, meaning that even the bad reviews might have some positive effect.

More interesting is of course how PLAYERS look at the ‘reviews’. Do players even read them, or do they discard them in the same way that most Admins do? Or do they only read reviews of their own Mud? It would be interesting to hear some comments from active players on this, or even to see some statistics, if it is possible to single out certain links on the Website. If the ‘reviews’ ARE getting read in any substantial amount, then they do indeed generate some traffic, and it would explain why Synozeer wants to keep them.

If I were a player out looking for a new Mud to play myself, I would most likely check out some reviews before I decided to log on to try it, even though I think they are basically worthless. And most likely the blatant plugs would leave me totally unaffected, except perhaps that the more there were of them, the less interested I’d probably be. I would read the negative ones with more interest. It is usually not very hard to single out the ones that were written with malicious intent. And even the negative ones would not necessarily make me less inclined to test the Mud.

They might make me think along the lines; Well, apparently this Mud raises some strong emotions, so it must have something of interest, why else would this person be so agitated about being site-banned? Or; This is apparently a Mud that is being worked on actively, or where the Admin is making some efforts to balance out things, why else would this player whine so much about all the changes?

There are of course also cases where bad reviews would make me less inclined to try out the Mud. Basically those would be the ones where players complain a lot about inflexible or arrogant Imms, and/or suppression of free speech. (I always hated control freaks myself; they have a tendency to kill all fun for me). And the third case when I’d be put off would be if I found that all reviews were disallowed.

But then again I am probably not representative for the majority. Rather the opposite, most likely. I seem to irritate a lot of people with a lot of my opinions on these boards. Oh well, I can live with that.

Still, everything isn’t always totally black and white. There are a lot of grey nuances in between. I sincerely wish that we’d one day see some more professional and unbiased reviewers, like the Mudcommandos used to supply. Until that happens, I guess people will just have to use their common sense, and draw their own conclusions from what they read. And hopefully most people are intelligent enough to do that.
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Old 01-18-2004, 08:32 AM   #28
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Hrm... hasn't this stirred a few people up? In my humble opinion, I also think player reviews are generally a waste of time. The only reviews that MIGHT be worthwhile are those done by a dedicated review team from TMS that hopefully can be objective. (I think Threshold might have mentioned this earlier) Even then, given the time it takes to get a real feel for a MUD sometimes, I doubt the reviewers would be able to dedicate the amount of time required to do an in-depth review of everything in a MUD. Therefore, why bother with a review? Play the MUD and make your own decision.
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Old 01-18-2004, 04:48 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
It is a common business practice because it is common human nature. When people are jealous of something or someone, especially when that thing or person excels at something THEY wish they could do, a very common reaction is to attack or impugn the target of their jealousy.
While I may not have any real reviews to speak of for my mud, this statement here fits rather appropriately with another gigantic spat I've been involved with in another area. How true can one get? The above statement is pretty much a summary of the entire reason I'm always having to fend the guy off. It's gotten so bad that any little thing I do brings him out of his hole to launch another wave of character assassinations against me.

So I can sympathize with why admins may not want to deal with this. Why should anyone have to put up with getting buried under 50 troll reviews just so the one or 2 people who have something nice to say can say it in a review. Just post it in the forums like the trolls do when they can't review it.
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Old 01-19-2004, 02:59 PM   #30
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I do enjoy reading reviews sometimes, and have in the past tried out muds on the basis of reviews. Obviously biased reviews often give more information about what actually playing the game is like than the website or info sheet, even if it is a flame. For example, a review that reads something like, "The imms forced me to change my char's name and wouldn't let me roleplay it the way I wanted," is a negative comment from the reviewer, but a player who enjoys RP-mandatory would see it in a positive light. You can even read reviews with no real content just to estimate the maturity level of the players.
I expect that there are other players like me who read reviews and go to the muds accordingly, so I don't think you could say that there is zero benefit to allowing reviews.
Owners decide to allow or not allow reviews based on the net benefit. If they don't allow reviews, then it makes me surmise that they don't expect enough well-written balanced reviews to counteract the poorly-written or obviously biased reviews, and that would indicate a generally immature playerbase. But that's just my opinion.
The main problem with the lack of balanced reviews is that if a player has spent enough time on a mud to be able to review it in depth, he must really like the game. I've written one review for the mud I play regularly, and tried to make it balanced, and have thought about reviewing muds I tried and only played for a day or a week, but then didn't think it would be fair to review based only on a newbie's perspective. Nobody is going to spend enough time playing a game that they don't really enjoy to write a fair review of it unless they are getting paid to do so.
But I still like the reviews and think they should stay.
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Old 01-20-2004, 02:34 AM   #31
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I barely ever read reviews. The only time I do is when I've already been in the MUD for a while and decide to post a review, which I also rarely do. It's mostly because I don't want to bother, as I can usually tell if a MUD appeals to me by spending five minutes on the game. Kallekins makes a good point, too many rave reviews show something about the playerbase (the most important thing, IMHO) but there are far too many trolls to wade through to try to gain from that fringe benefit. There are also good, unbiased reviews, but it's simply too hard to get to them.

As for me, I never write either types of reviews. Even if I'm saying to myself, "This game is absolutely awesome!", I know that those thoughts usually stem from personal preferences that shape you into a 'fanboi' of a game. It's not a bad thing, everyone should have a game like that, but in a review, it's useless. I simply bask in the awesomeness of those games and hope that more people find the game and agree with me.
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Old 01-22-2004, 12:57 PM   #32
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Having read all of say 4 reviews in my life, but having heard a great deal concerning them...

Why not put in a rating system? Counter-attack psychology aside in which an entire MUD's pbase gangs up on a puny little review and rates it down to 0, this could be a useful way for people to see a review, question its validity, check it out, and then rate it based on what they find. (It's also a way admins can "fight back" against soljax/clones without boring the rest of us with yet another "He's a #### liar" thread.)

my 2 cents.

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Old 01-22-2004, 01:36 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by
Why not put in a rating system? Counter-attack psychology aside in which an entire MUD's pbase gangs up on a puny little review and rates it down to 0
There was another site that used to do that. I remember, because Medthievia used to get all their players and staff to rate any negative comments about their stolen work as '0'.
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Old 01-22-2004, 04:16 PM   #34
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I'm sorry if someone else brought this up and I didn't see it..

WarHound, I don't understand your anger about playing 9 hours before the Imms notified you that your name was unappropriate. On Necromium, we usually try to avoid hassling new players about name issues (unless they are blatantly offensive or other important yet rarer situations) until they have settled in for a while. It saves us the trouble of changing the name of every player even if they are going to log out five minutes later and never come back and since the new player is already having to deal with getting used to the game, it saves them some trouble.
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