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Old 11-04-2002, 09:59 PM   #41
Neranz Laverani
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (the_logos @ Nov. 04 2002,6:25 pm)
Quote:
Originally Posted by

Anyway, I wish you luck, but my (unsolicited and therefore possibly rude) advice is to cut your losses now, and perhaps turn your attention towards a website.

--matt
So it can be torn apart like Game Commandos was?

Why even bother?

Your form of criticism is for a printed magazine. There are many others willing to criticize websites put up by people trying to help. I've been called an elitist, overblown, arrogant person who believes my way is the only way much more than I have been complimented for trying to help the building community. Caring about the community, wanting to help it, leaves you open to these attacks. These attacks are what drive people who care away, thus lessening the community.

I still think the magazine is an excellent concept and could grow with time.

I thought I had calmed down a little. I guess I haven't.
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Old 11-04-2002, 10:24 PM   #42
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Well, in a discussion with some others about the idea of a printed magazine, I pointed out why most people don't submit articles. This is a hobbyists magazine, that is true, but there is no real compensation for articles submitted.

The only compensation offered to authors is a free issue. While that's all good and well if the author isn't subscribed to the magazine, but why would one want a free issue of a magazine to which they are more than likely subscribed? If you tack the free issue onto their subscription (which very well may be how it is done, I don't know), that likely helps, some... but it still isn't much. For submitting an article, I get a $2.50 magazine that I'd more than likely have bought anyway?

Offering some sort of compensation for articles printed is the only way to get people sufficiently interested in submitting.


Just my two cents.
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Old 11-04-2002, 10:37 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Neranz Laverani @ Nov. 04 2002,8:59 pm)
So it can be torn apart like Game Commandos was?

Why even bother?

Your form of criticism is for a printed magazine.  There are many others willing to criticize websites put up by people trying to help.  I've been called an elitist, overblown, arrogant person who believes my way is the only way much more than I have been complimented for trying to help the building community.  Caring about the community, wanting to help it, leaves you open to these attacks.  These attacks are what drive people who care away, thus lessening the community.

I still think the magazine is an excellent concept and could grow with time.
Who cares if it is torn apart? The point is to garner enough readership to support itself. If some loudmouths don't like it, tough beans for them. If you can't take attacks on your product, don't start, because they are inevitable. Besides, the angry kids that rant about everything on this site and others are to be ignored. There's no reason to care about their opinions, as they don't represent anyone but themselves, and they are a trivial percentage of people who play MUDs.


And what I gave isn't an attack but constructive criticism. The difference is enormous. It's well and good for you to believe that he should continue to invest thousands of dollars, but it's his money that's being wasted, not yours.

A text MUD magazine might be an excellent concept, but it's not a particularly financially feasible one.

--matt
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Old 11-05-2002, 12:44 AM   #44
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Two thoughts, simply to satisfy my need to speak my mind:

a: First, no matter what semantic twist you put on it - quarterly issues or four yearly issues, the result is the same: a product was purchased with the understanding that between August 2001 and August 2002 four issues would be received.

b: The angst towards Mud Companion comes, not from the failure of obligations to (a) above, but from the lacadaisical response to genuine questions about the status.

As I said previously (and, by the by Thoric, I think it's great to see you responding to this thread) - all it would have taken to placate me was something as simple as a "Hey, got your mail, and can't respond right now".

Despite the best efforts of the post office, electronic mail remains a free service.

And, while we're on that thought, here's an idea: dual-cast the magazine. That is, publish it in hard copy, but also include a digital version, viewable to paying members. This allows you leeway in distributing the printed copy at your leisure. Heck, you could even hold them in abeyance and do bulk mailing annually. This gives you the medium you wanted for subscribers to show "This is what I do" still, while at the same time allowing for content to be easily distributable to those who are paying.

I'd be willing to pay double the current price for something like that. Providing there was active response to concerns, such as is now occuring on this thread, when they were aired.
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Old 11-05-2002, 04:39 AM   #45
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I am an avid defender of Game Commando's. Ilya and Natalia were wonderful additions to our community. The gave insight in meaningful ways, they were always open to discussion, and they were just downright nice.

I still remember the day that I found the notice posted on their site. It was a sad day indeed. And to show that I was going to miss them, I purchased a Game Commando's T-Shirt.

But to the topic at hand,
Maybe if MCM went the way of many D20 publishers and offered it in a PDF for 2.50 a magazine, and print for a limited run for 7.50 an issue. The Security on PDF's have increased, and you can expect more readers, as they can see an immediate return for their investment. (Plus they can buy back issues at no extra cost for you the publisher). Having taken a more indepth look at the MCM page, the magazine had a good start, it had some big hitters writing for it, and it had a couple of articles that interested me. But the difference between the first and fourth article astounded me. Yes there was more content, but bygolly give me quality over quantity any day of the week.
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Old 11-05-2002, 06:38 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Neranz Laverani @ Nov. 04 2002,11:59 am)
Most people are not willing to contribute. They take and criticize but offer nothing valid in return. There are a few good people left, but the community is rotten at the core. Perhaps it always has been. Perhaps I have just been slow to notice it. This thread was the straw for me.
Not entirely sure who this was directed at, but to imply that those who are complaining are not contributing in some way is silly. I can't speak for anyone else, but my reasoning for asking for my refund was simply because I got tired of waiting for it and Robbert's post about it jogged my memory again. If I get my issue, so be it. I'll be happy. I howver am NOT taking, I paid for it. It's mine by right of economics if nothing else.

Now, before someone else steps up and says I am just a whining little leech who does nothing, I *DO* contribute, in my own way. I lack the talent or desire to do writing for magazines. So in order to give back, I released my codebase, offer cheap mud hosting, and help Orion with Mud Planet. If that's not enough, I'm not sure what is.
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Old 11-05-2002, 07:45 AM   #47
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Greetings all,

The whole subject of the thread changed after the rather emotional post of Neranz (which I could totally understand btw). Just wanna share my views:

As a community (yes it is! consisting of hobbyist noone can ever expect anything from anyone, cause you don't have influence on someone else. So of course there are leeches just wanting to take advantage of work others do. It happens in any community. We shouldn't forget though that the whole mud community is very small (compare it to any other game you can play online) and that most of the community works on a free basis. For example if you play on a free mud, you can't tell the admin I want that bug removed or else I stop paying, cause they aren't.
With the mud companion however that's different. You are paying and you are waiting for something. Apparently things aren't working out as planned and I too think that's a big shame, apparently there is either not a big enough base to do it for or it's not fit for the people. Perhaps online magazines are better, or a mailing that gets send every 4 months. Who knows until we try.
The community seems fine to me, but everyone is very busy with their own thing, and who can blame them, I mean how many mudders are there for any mud there is?
And you can easily see, cause how much posts are added on daily basis here? You can check every week and stay up to date, this doesn't mean there's no community it means people are just mostly minding their own business. This might be a shame, but it might get better in time, hopefully.

BTW: I think alot of people appreciate work being done for the community, but as ever people who complain mostly get heard while people who appreciate things aren't.
So to underline that, thank you all
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Old 11-07-2002, 03:50 AM   #48
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This thread really bothers me since I know the effort that Thoric and Neranz and a bunch of others have put into it. Oh yes, I realize the legal ramifications as so many have quickly pointed out quite logically and correctly, but I also see perhaps too vehemently. To me, perhaps silly of me too, but I see it is as a fledgling publication that caters to what I want to read and would like to see it continue. I received my first issue, looked at the postage cost and immediately thought Thoric was nuts but I admired the stones he had to offer it. *Shrug* my two cents I guess.

I would advise him to "POST UPDATES" to the website perhaps to quell the grousing, or even maybe go to publishing twice a year until he has a stockpile of articles that allow 40 pages quarterly guaranteed (holding a good group in reserve to meet deadlines). Perhaps charging a teeny bit more to at least cover the postage fees would be good too. Heck, his production rate of articles is way better so far than our typical production rate of subordinate builder zones I bet.

I would certainly like my fourth issue as I'm sure all of you would, but I feel I've received my $10 bucks worth already and I'm satisfied I will receive my fourth issue eventually since he says it will happen. If he changes his offer to something he can actually guarantee compliance with I will even resubscribe.

I'm pretty sure all the negative feedback here and dissatisfied customers mailing his website have probably killed his altruistic enterprise, but this is Thoric guys, please cut him some slack? He and his staff are trying and apparently got in over their heads from lack of publishing experience and the "volunteers have real lives" bug.
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Old 11-07-2002, 10:21 AM   #49
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Slightly off-topic, but talking about TMJ and IR:

I think one of the problems linked to lack of community contributions for this kind of online publications is in fact a bad adaptation from the paper to the electronical world.

Let me explain: Paper publications, like MCM, are delivered in issues. What delays in publication or mailing or funding can generate for the customer we discussed at length already.

For webzines, though, I think sticking to an "issue" model is a huge mistake. The Internet gives such a tremendous opportunity for immediate communication that the news-portal type model is far more adapted, in particuliar, for a community which doesn't contribute often. More and more sites have started to recognize this lately, which is, IMO, a Good Thing.

As for the lack of unsollicited submissions, I think this is unescapable to a certain point in a community where we already spend much of our hobbyist time actually playing or enhancing our MUDs. There's also a fear, especially by certain coders, that spreading too much information is going to hamper the uniqueness of their code. This is not unique to the MUD world. I'm pretty sure many professional coders here can attest that within their companies, there is always at least a couple of guys who are very reluctant to share their expertise on any subject.
That isn't even limited to coding, thinking about it.

Then there's also the "writer's block": For instance, I do post rants on forums from time to time. It never occured to me that some of the stuff I posted would actually be thought worthy of an article in any publication. Neranz solliciting me for MCM did my ego good - and I finally managed to overcome my fear of writing an article in English (which is my third language, BTW). Whether I'll get any feedback at all and how it will be recieved remains to be seen.

I took however the resolve to continue to submit some of my stuff whenever I can come up with something worth writing.
None of this, however, would have happened if I hadn't got the intial shove by Neranz.
And it wasn't even the first time I got a sollicitation to write an article - I actually turned down one from Ilya for Gamecommandos because I felt insecure in both language and potential worth of any contribution I could offer.

To conclude this lenghty and probably quite disorganized post, about the complaints and criticism:

The anonymous and global nature of the internet will always guarantee that crap will be flung at almost anyone publishing something.
By people who are just jerks.
By people who can't take criticism.
By people who are plain jealous.
By people who can't stand that someone expresses a dissenting opinion.
By people who have a personal grudge against someone.
By kooks whose feet and shoes are always miles apart.
By lunatics mistaking you for someone else.
By people offended because they think they are being attacked personally.

And many more.
I still regret Game Commandos to this day. The advanced Mud concepts forum here reminds me, from time to time, to the kind of quality discussions I had there.
I can certainly feel sympathetic to anyone who has put so much of himself into his work that enough negativity will break his spirits - yet I think that perhaps a little bit of egotism can help stay above the fray.

I mean, I've been lurking on MUD-related sites, boards and newsgroup for four years. Take KaVir, for instance. I somehow can't help but feel amazed at the sheer amount of crap which I have seen flung at him in just four years, yet he keeps contributing.

From time to time, you need to remind yourself that what you do is just better and that those who flame you for your "elitism", your opinions, your critiques are not worthy of your attention.
Freedom of speech is not only great because anyone can say almost anything - it's even more tremendous because it also means you're free not to listen.

The Art of Building, for instance, is a treasure in resources for builders. It's not the Alpha and Omega of building. But it gives excellent advice on how to do things solidly. And can lead the smarter people to carve their own way out of what they get. Those who flame you as an elite snob instead of providing constrictive criticism are just too dumb to realize that their building is just plain below par. And since they're not willing to listen and debate, they're only worth three seconds of your attention span: the three seconds you need to plonk them.
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Old 11-07-2002, 10:49 AM   #50
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BTW, thinking about it a bit harder and again mourning GC, I think in retrospect that doing independent MUD reviews is probably one of the best ways to attract all sorts of attacks.

First, from the staff who is not mature enough to handle any kind of criticism in a constructive way. And that's hardly surprising.
After all, when thinking about it, the only objective asset any MUD out there has is its playerbase, and a partially or fully negative review can be percieved as one good way to dent the growth of the pbase. So staff members will often lash out at criticism - after all, it's always easier to shoot the messenger.

And then you have the fanbois, who are of course bound to defend "their MUD".
After all, when you spend several hours a week on a week, it is hard to admit you spend it on stuff not worthy of your attention.

Just look at any unmoderated player reviews: they devolve into flamewars faster than you can type "criticism".

This ends my monthly (or soon quarterly) MUD rant. Thank you for your attention.
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Old 11-12-2002, 08:59 PM   #51
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Offering some sort of compensation for articles printed is the only way to get people sufficiently interested in submitting.
Perhaps free advertising in that issue of the magazine? Something like 2.5in x 4in black and white (or whatever the size for 1/4 page adds are).

OT:
That could be a good way to get more articles, informative papers, stories etc on all MU* mediums.

Like on TMC if a person submits an article and it is approved they could get 1 week banner add rotation. Or something along those lines.


*shrug*
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Old 11-15-2002, 01:20 PM   #52
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This is part of the problem though. They are relying on advertisers to fund the project. If they start giving away their income source they will have the same problems that they have had in the past.
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Old 11-15-2002, 01:31 PM   #53
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They're going to lose some income one way or the other... by not having articles to print or losing a few pages of advertising so they actually have a magazine to put out.

They're going to have to offer SOME form of compensation to those who write articles, and as I already mentioned... giving them a copy of a magazine they're more than likely already subscribed to is not the way to do it.
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Old 11-15-2002, 07:33 PM   #54
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There is an old saying:
The world consists of two types of people; The few that go in front and create something of their own effort, and the many that tag along behind and complain that it was not done in a better way.

And as if that weren't sad enough, there is also a third type; the ones that get their satisfaction from tearing down and destroying the work done by others.

I am getting really tired of the attitude that is spreading in the mud community. It seems that whoever tries to do something for the community automatically becomes a target for certain people, who like to flame, bitch and criticize every flaw they can find.

It's very easy to criticize, but to actually achieve something of your own is a lot harder. By spreading your wings to fly, you not only run the risk to fail and fall to the ground, you also run the risk of being shot down by others. Those who never try, those who never rose above the ground, those people can sit safe and smug, bitching about the shortcomings of the ones that did try and perhaps not made it all the way.

Why this negative attitude? What are the motives? Envy? Rivalry? Personal dislikes? Many of the posts on this thread are not even constructive criticism, they are just bitching and flaming. This thread is yet another example of the same attitudes that made respected members of the community, like the Mud Commandos, decide to withdraw for good, thus depriving us of services that most of us valued and enjoyed. Now it seems that Neranz, a person who I deeply admire and respect, is about to quit on us too.

Where will it end? Where is the Mud community headed? What happened to the spirit of generosity, helpfulness, unselfishness, sharing of knowledge, positive feedback and mutual respect, which I was met by, when I first entered this world some years ago?  Where did all this crass materialism come from? Why all this hostility, folks?
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Old 11-16-2002, 09:44 PM   #55
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Molly, our lady Neranz is backpedaling because of RL personal issues, not because of uncaring and unthoughtful posts here. I do imagine these types of comments do speed the process though when you get seriously fed up with beating your head against a wall.

Neranz, Thoric, you, et al from our generation of addicts developed thick skins and though we get frustrated, we keep on ticking and take another kicking.
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Old 11-17-2002, 02:01 AM   #56
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I believe sight of the issue at hand has been lost. Step back, and regain perspective.

This thread is not about deprecative remarks towards the 'old school'. It is not about taking without giving in return, and it most certainly is not meant in any way to be disparaging towards anyone in general, or Thoric specifically.

Rather, it is about a service: bought and paid for, which was not delivered. And, short of the 'shouts out to my boyz' posts which have perpetuated this thread over the last few responses, the purpose of the thread has been realized. The provider of the service has remitted, and implied that, regardless of the future of the product (which I, for one, do not wish to see left on the wayside), what is due will be delivered.

Further, there have been several constructive suggestions to the service, which may or may not be accepted, and which may or may not actually be worthwhile.

Either way, the majority of these posts were not derogatory or defaming. Those who complained (myself included) paid for that right. The same response would be met from any group who did not receive that which they purchased.

I suggest, if there are those who do not like what they read here, that they go read something elsewhere, or that they take a grander look at the big picture than what they are seeing through their rose colored glasses. This is, as I said initially, not about defaming any specific person. And if you take it that way, then you have perhaps not understood the true gist of this thread.

Robbert, who is both a contributor and a complainer.
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Old 11-17-2002, 04:38 PM   #57
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Somewhat off-topic:

People are people. Disagreements will happen. A post you consider immature or one you heartily dislike is still written by a person with the right to his own opinions and the right to express them. That is the essence of "free speech."

A community where everyone agrees with each other isn't a community - it's either a utopia or a dystopia. The first would be boring, the latter has its own problems. Enjoy dissent, it's one of the things that lets us know we're all just human beings. Hey, at least we're still talking to each other.

---

Why don't people contribute unsolicited articles?
Answer: No motivation.

People do not do anything without a reason for doing so. And writing an article for most people is like wringing blood from a stone left in a desert for centuries. The effort would not be worth it without sufficient motivation - especially not when you have an addictive mud to waste time in.

People doubt their own ability to write. They doubt they have enough knowledge of value to contribute. They doubt their opinions would be welcome in a tight-knit community. They may also be lazy, or busy with other things and procrastinate a lot.

Unsolicited articles are sent by people who want to see their name or their article in print. Or they want to make their knowledge known to people. Or else they are inspired to uplift the community. The motivations here are either personal glory or selflessness. Maybe, paradoxically, both. It is a rare combination of arrogance, generosity and self-confidence you're hoping for. Little wonder it happens once in a blue moon.

To get articles, it is far easier to ask. If people like or respect you enough, they'll set aside some time in their busy schedule to get that "Oh, I must write about that some day" article done.

Better still, set a deadline. About 75% of the people won't make the deadline (and I'm being optimistic here.) But you can bet a lot of them will be motivated by it and are getting it done sooner than without one.
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Old 01-13-2003, 06:22 AM   #58
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Speaking from a guy who doesn't normally have a lot of interaction IRL with other MUDders, either past or present, I would like to point out that a lot of the criticism coming from the community is reflective of the problems we have being enthusiasts for what is now either considered "too complex", or "outdated" by most people around us, whether they're right or not.

I mention that I like playing text-based games, and 99% of the time, I end up with either one or both of the following responses:

"Text? TEXT?! What the #### are you doing playing something in TEXT? Jesus dude, ever heard of CS?!"

*blank stare* "They have games online? That you can play? And they aren't those shooter-game-thingies? Huh. Sounds too complicated. You must be a dork."

I am, and I'm goddamn proud of it. But that doesn't also mean that I'm just a teensy bit red in the face when someone really bores into me, because I KNOW that a lot of what I do is childish here. But that's the point! It's fun! We enjoy blowing off steam in ways that most don't, and couldn't understand even if they tried to. We don't do things or see things in ways most people do; text seems too much like actually having to read, and not enough like TV. So who would care about something so stupid? Me.

However. The ability for me to log onto a MUD with a couple of friends who don't understand a thing and are very skeptical, and have them hooked within 15 minutes is...a miracle at least. And I've done it before. But that kind of ability comes from the MUD itself, and only truly exceptional MUDs and administrators can come up with that kind of ability. The problem comes when I get a taste of that ability, and then want it everywhere because I want to be able to point at my friends, laugh at them, and say, "You didn't know about it, and it's much cooler than you ever knew, and that makes YOU the wanker!"

Wanting this kind of excellence for the entire community is ridiculous, of course, I know this. But that doesn't stop me from wanting it anyway. And offering occasional criticism, constructive or otherwise, where I think things are really wrong. Whether I'm right or not is a moot point; almost everything I say is an opinion, key word: OPINION.

In the case of this thread, everyone who actually got their 2.50 refunded, get a life. Really. I don't care about this stupid "contractual obligation" idiocy, and I don't care about whether someone is "contributing to the community" or not. Those points have no purpose. The issue at hand is whether there is any reason to be bitchy about TMC, or, on the other hand, too many people in this "community" are whiners. I opt for the latter, and add myself into that category. Now whoever wants to be a leader can, but we have the disclaimer out in the open:

WE WILL PWN YOU IF YOU TRY TO BE NICE. IF YOU DO NOT MIND BEING PWND, PLEASE SIGN UP AT THE FRONT DOOR OF THE "MINISTRY OF LOVE" BUILDING. THANK YOU.

As for the magazine, and everyone whining about how they didn't get their issue or a cordial post, do what Elrus tells you to do:

"Quit yer bitchin'"

-Visko
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Old 01-13-2003, 05:52 PM   #59
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In the case of this thread, everyone who actually got their 2.50 refunded, get a life. Really. I don't care about this stupid "contractual obligation" idiocy
I'll remember to tell that to the people who supply you with whatever magazine subscriptions you may have. They'll be thrilled to hear you don't want the remaining 25% of your subscription.

Would you really just write off 4 issues of a 12 month subscription? At the rates most magazines go for these days? No? Neither would I. Sure, this one may only be $2.50 an issue, but it's the principle. I paid for 4 of them, I only got 3. They claimed the 4th one was to be mailed in August 2002. It's now January 2003 and I've seen no sign of it in the mail yet. Nor have they responded to my refund demand. I'd like to think the fact that I haven't turned them in to Paypal for fraud counts for something. I wouldn't have been quite so patient with Popular Science or PC Gamer. The temptation is rising since my patience is wearing thin though.
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Old 01-13-2003, 11:20 PM   #60
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Neranz Laverani wrote:

So it can be torn apart like Game Commandos was?

Why even bother?
Historical Revisionism alert =p. Game Commandos died for a variety of reasons. One of the biggest was the fact that the creators were BLATANTLY biased towards certain muds, and they steered articles, ratings, and reviews in that direction.

If someone submitted an extremely well written review about one of the "wrong" games, the GC editors would give it a low rating. But if you sent in a 100 word "This mud r0x0rz d00d!" review for one of the muds the GC admins played/worked at, it would get a high rating. It was absurd.

So for that and other things the GC folks were repeatedly slammed. They got sick of defending an indefensible position, and eventually had to give up the ghost.

[... Interestingly enough, The Mud Journal suffered a similar fate for very similar reasons, but I digress... ]

As for the concept itself, who cares if people are "tearing it apart." You'll find that the $2.50 spent by people who want to rip on it is just the same as the $2.50 spent by people who love it. This concept is what keeps many newspapers, news journals, and talk radio shows ALIVE. The people that HATE them are some of the best customers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by
Neranz Laverani wrote:

I've been called an elitist, overblown, arrogant person who believes my way is the only way much more than I have been complimented
Free Advice: If you want to be successful at ANYTHING, be prepared to receive a LOT more criticism than praise. Life isn't kindergarten where you get a pat on the back for slapping meaningless squiggles of colorful fingerpaint onto a piece of paper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
Neranz Laverani wrote:

for trying to help the building community.
Oh give me a break. Please spare us the altruistic BS. The magazine wasn't free, so don't try to deny the profit motive. I'm not saying you were trying to make a million bucks, but don't pretend you weren't hoping to turn a profit. Of course, there is nothing WRONG with wanting to turn a profit (a healthy enterprise is a profitable one, after all.

You were also doing it for the notoriety of being the creators of what you hoped would be the definitive MUD printed magazine. Again, there is nothing wrong with that.

Just don't act like a charity when you aren't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by
Neranz Laverani wrote:

Caring about the community, wanting to help it, leaves you open to these attacks.  These attacks are what drive people who care away, thus lessening the community.
Honestly, anyone who is so wishy-washy that they cannot weather criticism has no business doing or making ANYTHING that is available to the public.

Successful people, in ANY endeavor, are not wallflowers that can be blown over by any passing breeze.

Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thoric wrote:

Technically I could mail out a four page leaflet for issue #5 and #6 and still fulfill my obligation.  Nothing guarantees the number of pages or quality of the magazine.  Even though I say, "Full color cover", I could scribble on the cover with a crayon and not be breaking any obligations.

...


As I said, there was no time guarantee.  As for what it said on the website, it said, "Mailing starts next week".  That didn't say that mailing would be finished that week.
Yeah, well the little cards for Newsweek subscriptions don't necessarily say exactly how many pages you will get, or how many full color photos will be included, or that there will be a page of political cartoons and quotes every week, etc. But if they didn't provide them, you can bet they'd be coughing up money FAST or they're pants would be sued off.

Seriously, I don't know what you hoped to accomplish by saying this, but it makes you look sleazy and dishonest, and I don't actually think you are. So saying stuff like the above doesn't suit your ends at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by
Neranz Laverani wrote:

There is still the issue that people want good magazines and websites, but don't want to help create them by contributing, then rag on the sites or magazines creators because the sites or magazines aren't timely or don't succeed.  Many more people seem willing to take than to give.  If everyone takes, nothing can be created.
Attacking the mud community for failing to send you FREE CONTENT that you could publish and charge people money for is RIDICULOUS and childish.
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