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Old 10-08-2002, 12:49 AM   #1
shade
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Now i been thinkign alot..and after that i tested around even more to see how alot of muds handle the fact of rule enforcing. I seen a tendance of rules that are enforced but NOT written down in a help file, webpage etc alas basicly enforcing something that cannot be read or refered to. I think this practice is horrible and o strongly sugest IMP's that notice that your mud enforces rules without written backup remedy that quick.

why ?
Well you cannot expect a person to know all the little rules any given mud has, it varries ALOT. A few basic most have but other than that its to varried to expect anyone to know it. I think that having a clear help rules, help pkrules, help multiplay, help rprules that get smacked in your face as you log evrytime helps, if you show theres files or pages to read you can also expect them to follow the rules (hopefully). But then agian writing a rule for evry little deviant situation that can ocour is not rational, i seen that to. Muds with 3 pages of spam in help rules, you tend to spam it away then. Its better i think to write a rule that alows the imm that enforces to apply the situation for example:Any OOL help is forbidden in any kind. Now this basicly restricts anything from spelling up someone ool to having him follow you to flee from pk (you maybee run faster)

Anyway at the end of this spam comes my point:A clear help rule file is a must, being able to back enforcement with readable help files. I know some IMPs want more fluid system with as little rules and help files as possible, well blah i dont like it and personally think its poor treatement vs players not to give them a chance to know whats right and wrong.

shade
-Mercy is for loosers-
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Old 10-08-2002, 11:50 AM   #2
Maggie
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I think the biggest problem is that trying to spell out exactly what's against the rules will result in there either being several pages of rules that most people won't read and few can remember or a lot of things you don't want to allow being missed.  I believe that is why most add that some things will be decided at the staff's discretion.

Perhaps the best way to do it is to have a short list of general rules, with links to descriptions of more specific examples; for instance:

No cross-charactering - for more information on what constitutes cross-characting, click here.

No unconsented pvp - for more information on what constitutes consent, click here.

No disruptive behavior - for more information on what is considered disruptive, click here.

Those who aren't accessed through a website might find it more difficult, but could also include the general rules and have them type in a request for specifics if they feel they need them.  It's likely that most people won't read all the specifics to know exactly what the rules cover, but it wouldn't be a defense since the information is available.
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Old 11-01-2002, 09:00 PM   #3
Corhean
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In my experiences, mud rules/policies are hard to keep up with depending on the situation. For example: Your mud has a no multi-playing rule, and you have Joe with Character A+B. If he is a super skill set with A and B needs something, why not snag it with A, save, quit, and pick it up with B after logging in again?

Could someone consider that a multi-play? Potentially, but it depends on how you look at it...

Mud rules that I have seen are always in a gray area, especially within teaching/learning/using skills and with beauty marks (AKA flaws) within the game. My question is: is there a way to make those gray areas either black or white

-Corhean
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Old 11-02-2002, 10:06 AM   #4
Jazuela
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I think it all depends on who your game caters to. DISCLAIMER: My reference to "children" is not meant as a slur...it's simply that children who have begun or are in the middle of their hormonal changes into adulthood will be subject to FAR more wavering of emotional stability. This isn't a bad thing, it's a necessary process of growth. Now having said that:

If the game caters to children who are going through puberty, then chances are, you're going to have to get nit-picky, because they will invariably challenge rules to see if they can get around them.

If the game caters to mature adults, then you should be able to expect your player base to understand nuances of the rules.

And so - "No disruption of RP" for example...SHOULD be self-explanatory in a game catering to adults. Perhaps a few examples of what RP means in the first place, in the RP section of the manual, would be good in any case, since not all players will have played a RP game before.

But in a game catering more toward the puberty crowd, you'll need to get into some examples, and possibly delve deep into the intricacies of what constitutes RP, IC, OOC, in-genre, out-of-genre, and then even add a "exceptions to this rule will be SOLELY at the staff's disgression" disclaimer to catch anything missed.
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Old 11-02-2002, 04:29 PM   #5
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I can see what Shade is talking about and though I'm probably not that seasoned of a MU*der (yet long time dice chucker ), I've seen examples on both sides of the issue. I've seen MU*s where the rules are so long, spammy and stymied that it takes you at least 5 minutes of hitting "Enter" (or Return) to just get past them (and some MUDs, though with good intentions, make you read the rules before you even step foot into the game), I've also seen MU*s where the rules specifically point out in clear and simple terms what not to do, yet the Imps let "older" players get away with breaking them.
 Example..names. Ok, maybe the player has been there since the first day of Beta but, it's NOT like some Admin type cant up their levels, skills, etc (replace equip, etc..) if said player
has a "wrong" name (per the nameing rules people usually get hit with the moment you create that character. We've all seen them..) and has to recreate. Instead, most have the "It's my MUD and I'll do whatever" attitude and even though you are wanting to play someone named say, Thrakken, but cant because there's a mob named Krakken ("It's too close name wise..") yet..there's a high level character named Lord Oreo Pimpdaddy then you know off the bat something's not quite right (note: that's one sure fire sign to me that it's going to be a MUD Iwont want to play when I type Who and see names that break the names rules if any)
 Simple rules? Well, the MUD I'm on now has Rules and Policy Help Files that arent spammy and are clear and concise. Easy to understand rules that even some moron twit could understand (ie "No Summoning mobs by any spell in the town" "No PK Looting unless you have prior consent from your target" etc..).
 So yea, if you're a MUD admin type reading this thread, c'mon, do the players a favor and review your Rules/Policies..are they too lengthy? Are they clear or just in a grey area so some Imp can go on a Holier-than-thou spree with players? Also...(for MUD admins) are YOU following your own rules? If you have in the Imp policy/rules that Imps cant interfere in mortal affairs...are you upping some player's maxed out stats because they whine about them 24/7? If so, heh..you arent setting a good example. (course, Imp rules could be saved for a different thread..). Are there grey areas? Do you need a master's degree in English Lit to even barely understand them? Are your rules files longer than the US Tax Code?
ok..sorry to ramble.
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Old 11-02-2002, 05:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (CSmith_Fan @ Nov. 02 2002,3:29 pm)
Easy to understand rules that even some moron twit could understand (ie "No Summoning mobs by any spell in the town" "No PK Looting unless you have prior consent from your target" etc..).
This brings up an interesting point which is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

Rules should only exist to handle situations which absolutely cannot be addressed by the code. If the code allows a player to do something, they *will* do it, most likely when you're not looking.

When this is the case, two things happen: you have to spend a lot of time investigating and larting people, and the rule loses force because people will manage to get away with doing it anyway. Enforcement will not be consistent.

As an example, we used to have some creators who were steadfastly opposed to player characters changing species. Occasionally they would notice this happening, and they would punish (or, even dumber, threaten to punish) the player in question. It would have been a two line code fix to prevent people from doing it at all. Because not all of the staff agreed with them, a compromise was eventually struck, and the code was fixed to present certain disincentives to race changes. The dilettante creators in question have since disappeared, thank goodness.

By nailing down most of the possible misbehavior with code, we've managed to condense our rules to roughly 5 items which would be difficult or impossible to prohibit with code: multiplaying, multicharing, botting, OOC-abuse, and unnecessary lameness.

Of course, each item has a complete helpfile defining terms and examples for the mud-lawyers and limit-testers.

R.
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Old 11-16-2002, 10:07 PM   #7
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Sorry to take so long to post to this but I've been erm busy, yah, that's the ticket, busy...

Policy by necessity needs to be simple and to the point covering the major "don't do" features of your world, but contain enough gray area to allow 'on the fly' decisions when special circumstances arise. Most places aren't fortunate enough to have 24/7 coverage by an Immortal and as much as possible should be coded. The biggie then becomes do all your Immortal staff use common sense and are predictable in how they handle the gray areas. In my case, some make good decisions, some make some shaky ones and ALL levels are required to answer "what were you thinking!?" when asked by me or a senior manager. It seems to work well.

No matter how many help files or plethora of words in your policies, the techno-mudders or anti-authority pubescent ones will either find a way around a rule or stretch it to the limits requiring tough decisions. My thought is set up a reasonable policy, put in a few caveats that basically say "psst, we're a fascist regime, comply or go away" and tutor your staff in fair application of common sense while holding accountable to not be overly harsh.
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Old 08-28-2014, 08:08 PM   #8
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Re: Rule enforcing

I think, aside from MUD rules in general, the real impact it has on a MUD is by who is administrating. In MUDs I've played, you can usually tell from the first deity contact you have whether or not they are professional... I use professional in a broad sense. Some games aren't run that way at all, but just a free for all funfest for the most immature kids to come on and mudsex all day.

One MUD I played specifically, while the actual game itself and players were really fun, the administration and pantheon was absolutely horrendous. They basically drove away their entire playerbase, and I was one those players. It had nothing to do with the rules in particular, because they DID have a HELP file for rules. But, it seemed like everything we players did, the moment someone complained, you were getting reprimanded for some ridiculous reason.

i don't entirely agree with RULES being spammed whenever someone logs in. In my experience, I find having to read through pages and pages of help files before I actually get INTO the game itself to be extremely boring. My current mud doesn't spam you with rules. It just takes you through a few novice guides and then you join your city and guild. Any rules you have to follow are defined by the city or guild you join, because they have GHELP and CHELP files. Most have a rules section. Some are a bit more free. All are attempting to encourage roleplay.
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