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Old 03-15-2003, 05:44 PM   #21
enigma@zebedee
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I agree on that point - I don't see an inherent obsticle to implementing a crafting system on any MUD codebase.

Obviously its going to be easier on some than others - but that is always the case for anything you might want to develop.

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I dunno about other muds, but on DM botting is illegal, and if you do it, chances are a player will kill you before a creator even knows about it. It's weird really...by and large, people can't stand botters, but they ooc cheat (use ooc knowledge for IC gains) fairly frequently. Guess it just goes to show how deep you can get into a good RP system, heh.
Yes, banning them is an option. On certain muds I have seen theoretically banned bots run for a long time before being spotted though - and they are not always that easy to kill either.

Zebedee never banned bots (apart from client fast-follows which were too deadly in player killing) but I remember having an entertaining time confusing and/or killing the few bots that did appear from time to time while I was first playing up.
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Old 03-15-2003, 06:39 PM   #22
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I don't really see why it would be hard to add crafting skills to an existing mud.

We are in the process of doing just that in my own mud, and it's just a question of either using already existing items as raw material for the different crafts, or creating a set of new items and then resetting them in appropriate places in the old zones. Not much of an issue for a reasonably good Builder.

We also have based the crafts not on code, but on scripts, set on the tools you use for the craft in question. This makes it possible for an entire group of Builders to work on the craft skills and frees the coder for other tasks.

So for each step of a craft, you need to wield a different tool and hold a raw material, and in some cases you need a second raw material in inventory too. Each step creates a new item, that you in turn need for the next step, together with a new tool.

The scripts are a bit tedious to make, but the system more or less prevents players from just making a trigger and then go AFK, since they have to be active during the entire operation, and some asvanced crafts require 10 different steps or more.

Crafts that involve some kind of metal or woodworking are particularly fun, since there are so many different kinds of metal ore and trees, and you may have to travel over half the world to find the right wood for the handle or the right alloy for the blade of your weapon.

I guess eventually there will be a new player economy developing, where some players, who like to explore, will collect the raw materials. and then sell them to the crafters, who prefer just sitting still and do the actual handicraft work. This is all good, since it provides something to do for different types of players, who got tired of Questing or killing mobs.
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Old 03-15-2003, 07:11 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by (Falconer @ .,.)
Could you elaborate as to why it wouldn't work at Threshold?
I said it would be hard.

My point is that it is a lot harder to retro-fit crafting onto an existing, large, established game than it is to create crafting from the beginning when you are simply in the "design phase."

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Originally Posted by (Molly O'Hara @ .,.)
I don't really see why it would be hard to add crafting skills to an existing mud.
The reason it is difficult is because a *GOOD* crafting system is totally integrated to every aspect of the game itself. This means it is integrated into weapon/armor/gear balance,monster "drop" balance, area difficulty, etc.

Further, there are a lot of things that have to be kept in mind when designing a crafting system. I will quote an excellent list of such things posted by John:

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Originally Posted by (John @ .,.)
Things you need to consider when creating a crafting system:
* What materials are needed to create items
* Where are the materials supplied
* What methods will be needed to create items
* What tools are needed to create items
* What areas will create certain items and why (such as cultural reasons, environmental reasons).
* How much will it cost to create each item (having an item that costs more then you can sell it for is silly)
* How do you stop people from spam crafting
* How do you stop stores from overflowing with items
* How will future items be added?
All of the above are far easier to deal with when creating your mud from the beginning. When you are working with a 5+ year old mud with thousands of players who have been around for years, this is a lot more difficult.

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Originally Posted by (Molly O'Hara @ .,.)
We are in the process of doing just that in my own mud,and it's just a question of either using already existing items as raw material for the different crafts, or creating a set of new items and then resetting them in appropriate places in the old zones. Not much of an issue for a reasonably good Builder.
How long has your mud been fully open (not beta)? How many players do you have? How large is the world?

The smaller the mud and the less the players, the easier it is to do this when "live". Why? Because being smaller and having less players is functionally closer to the "not open yet" stage.

In fact, I would imagine that some small muds are smaller in size (areas, items, monsters, etc) than many "big games" were when they were still under development and not even open to the public.

That is one of the strengths of a small game. They are more flexible and can make dramatic gameplay changes FAR more easily.

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Originally Posted by (Molly O'Hara @ .,.)
I guess eventually there will be a new player economy developing, where some players, who like to explore, will collect the raw materials. and then sell them to the crafters, who prefer just sitting still and do the actual handicraft work. This is all good, since it provides something to do for different types of players, who got tired of Questing or killing mobs.
Good luck on that one, but in practice this doesn't work terribly well.

Asheron's Call 2 tried to base a huge portion of their game on this, and it failed miserably.

What ends up happening is crafters have to become "warriors" if they hope to have a reliable source of materials.

Of course, graphical MMORPGs typically do a crappy job of implementing complex systems, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of muds do this a million times better.
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Old 03-15-2003, 08:52 PM   #24
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That is a very good description of why its hard to retrofit a _good_ crafting system into the game.

We have over 5000 rooms coded over the space of more than 10 years with active players from before 1995. Trying to retrofit crafting into that is certainly possible...but it is a very very big job and someone would have to come up with a very good case why we should spend our time on that rather than upgrading old areas/creating new areas/improving classes/creating new secret classes/etc.

Balance in particular would be tricky. If a crafted item is stronger than existing items on the game then no-one would bother with the existing items. If the crafted item was not better then no-one would bother with crafting. If crafting was a way to improve existing items then that now upgrades all of our experienced players and makes the game easier for them. Or we could reduce all weapons and then allow crafting to upgrade them again - but that now penalises people who dont want to get into crafting and increases the advantage of experienced players over inexperienced ones.

None of this is unsolvable - but its far easier to solve when initially designing a mud than it is to solve 10 years down the line.
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Old 03-15-2003, 09:19 PM   #25
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Well after a quick look around in the archives I found this thread which does say that each item is hard-coded seperately. I guess when it was imp'd it never occured to the coders to create a system where it had base items that were modifiable by certain items.

The crafting system will probably be re-coded one day, but the problem is Arm has TONS of ideas on how to make the game better (such as how to create better scripts for animals, adding smells to items and rooms, etc) that it probably won't be any time soon.

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Some allow restringing of existing items (as a reward for good rp). Others let you order custom items (pay a npc to do your crafting).
Thing is, with muds that have crafting systems, it is MUCH easier to create items then restringing (which is normally reserved for people who've proved themselves as good RPers, so typically isn't open to newbies) and it's also MUCH quicker then buying it from NPCs.

They also tend to be quite complex and it's A LOT of fun finding out how the system works.

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If there is a crafting system where a set sequence of non-combat actions can generate a substantial profit then what stops people writing a simple client script to run around repeating the actions for ever?
A lot really. If the world changes (such as gates open and close in cities at certain times) then players will have to go somewhere where it doesn't change. You can randomise how the system works (such as have a forage command that you use to find the materials, then you have a success rate depending on their forage skill, so therefore they might not always get the materials), you can also have environmental changes that affect a player's stats and make them loose mvt points quicker. There is also the threat of aggressive NPCs killing you. It'd be VERY difficult to create a script in the right system. It's just like why don't fighters go in easy areas and create bots to kill all the animals?
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Old 03-15-2003, 09:36 PM   #26
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There are also many other alternatives to crafting as non-hack and slash options: shipping and trading, writing and performing songs and stories, preaching, gambling, stealing, political intrigue..Many of these I think are better than crafting for roleplaying because they involve more people.
I enjoy crafting for all sorts of reaons, many of which have already been mentioned: it's variety, it's cathartic, it's satisfying.  I also really appreciate a deep, complex crafting system that will, as Sanvean points out, enable me to revel in it as a problem-solving exercise, to enjoy the experimental testing of hypotheses.

But there is another reason why a good crafting system has become an absolutely must for me when I'm appraising MUDs, regardless of whether I intend my characters to craft or not.  

About the top of my list of priorities is immersiveness.  I'm looking for a place where I can feel that the character I'm creating is a living, breathing person, in a living, breathing environment.  I want my character to be able to interact not only the other PCs, not even only with the NPCs, but with the very world my character inhabits.  

Having been treated to examples of worlds that are very immersive in this fashion over the course of my MUDding career, I now find that if my character can't take a lump of a world and fashion it in some way, I feel like my arms have been cut off.  The world just feels that much more fake, that much less alive.


It's obvious that you don't personally enjoy crafting, Kallekins, and that's fine.  It takes all sorts, and that's kind of the point.  Crafting adds another dimension to your gameworld.  Those who enjoy killing will kill.  Those who enjoy trading will trade.  Those who enjoy politicking will get up to all sorts of devious plotting.  But I really can't see how providing a place in your world for the many, many people out there who apparently enjoy crafting can do anything but enrich the mixture of personalities there, and how can that be a bad thing?



Maia, wondering if the popularity of crafting has anything to do with the fact that few of us these days spend much time IRL working with our hands
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Old 03-16-2003, 01:23 PM   #27
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How long has your mud been fully open (not beta)? How many players do you have? How large is the world?

The smaller the mud and the less the players, the easier it is to do this when "live". Why? Because being smaller and having less players is functionally closer to the "not open yet" stage.
We’ve been out of beta for about 5 years now.
We have 16140 rooms (155 zones). Of these about 6000 rooms are Wilderness Grid or Mine, that still leaves 10000 rooms, 140 ‘real’ zones, (all custom, there are no stock zones in 4D).
We have 7360 prototype objects.
I’d say this is a pretty large world, right?
Our player base is still a bit limited since we don’t cater for the mainstream. We rarely peak above 25 players, but I don’t really see what that has got to do with things, since each new feature we add gets on top of and integrated with everything already existing.

Our mud started out as pure hack’n’slash and went from that to being heavily Quest based. We are now in the process of adding the craft skills on request from several players, who want a more roleplay oriented alternative to killing mobs.

So we started out with adding simple trades like fishing, farming, gardening and lumberjacking, so Newbies would have a chance to earn some money without risking their neck too much. Then we added a 1000 room mine, with 10 different kinds of metal ore. Players are mining all the time, but not mainly for the ore, even though that already pays pretty well in certain shops, but because somewhere in that mine is a totally awesome sword, that develops when you use it. You gotta give them an incentive, hehe. (Incidentally that sword is so hard to get that only a couple of players have managed so far, even though the feature has been in for almost a year).

So now we are in the process of adding farming, to get leather, wool, milk and eggs, and a whole scale of integrated craft skills to get an economic and IC use for all those basic raw materials. Our craft system might be different from what other muds usually use, we do tend to do things a bit differently here.

The fact that our world already is pretty big is not a hinder for this, it’s actually useful, since the crafts are based on raw materials, and some of them need to be pretty hard to find. So many of the materials already exist, which makes things easier, and in the cases where we need to make some new stuff, the large world presents an opportunity to spread this out in the already existing zones. You don’t have the same opportunities in a small mud.

Naturally there is the question of balancing, but you have that same problem each time you add a new zone to the world, or the stats of the objects in the game would keep spiralling up all the time. So it’s either a question of dealing with the problem or stop developing the mud.

Balancing in our game is based on two things: Time and challenge.

Time: It takes a given time to kill a certain mob. How long depends on the level of the mob, the level of the player, the equipment of the mob and the equipment of the player. It also takes a given time to get to – and above all to FIND – the right mob, with that choice piece of equipment you want.

Challenge: Basically this depends on how tough you are compared to the mob. In our game challenge is also based on Quests. To find a certain choice item, you may need to solve several puzzles, find some hidden ‘portals’ or containers, run errands for a picky mob all over the world, and maybe on top of all kill a tough mob too. This too takes time, and also the smart players get rewarded rather than the ‘powerplayers’.

So all we need to do is to apply the same balancing principle to the crafts.

Each craft naturally is a bit time consuming. Not too much, that would be just boring. But basically each craft has several steps. You can sell what you produce at each step, but the more you develop the product, the more valuable it gets. Also each craft is based on raw materials. The more rare the material and the harder it is to get, the more the product is worth. And to actually produce armour or weapons that equal what you can find in the game, you have to go through all steps, and use the absolute top raw material.

Take one of the easier crafts, cooking, as an example. You use a cooking book with 10 different recipes; each dish has a market value in different inns, based on how hard the ingredients are to get. So let’s say you want to bake a simple apple pie:
You can grow the wheat for it yourself and have it ground to flour in a mill, then milk a cow and have the milk processed to butter and cream in a dairy.
The eggs you get in a chicken farm, but they need to be fresh, or they will either hatch or rot. *snicker*. (Of cause, if they hatch, you get one of the ingredients for chicken casserole instead).
The apples you can pick from a tree in an orchard, but since apples only ripen in autumn, the season needs to be right. Sugar and salt were luxuries in medieval times. Naturally they already exist in the game, but only in a pretty remote city, which is hard to get to. (This city was originally made as a centre for poisoners, and the salt and sugar was put in as a decoy for arsenic. Now they get a new economic use).
Finally the spices; ginger and cinnamon. These grow in Mediterranean countries, a pretty long journey for most.

Or take one of the more advanced trades, like weaponsmith. You don’t just sit down and type ‘forge sword’ and then listen to a number of echoes. Making a decent sword involves several crafts, like woodworking and leather working (for the handle), metallurgy, forging, honing and perhaps tinkering, for the blade and finally jewel-cutting and goldsmithing for the hilt.

So to start from the bottom, you need to fell a tree, get it sawed at a sawmill, and then whittle a handle. And to get a top product the wood you use must come from a very rare tree which only grows on a remote Greek island.
Then you must slaughter an ox for its hide, scrape the hide, tan it, cut it to straps and wind them round the handle.
For the blade you need to first mine for the metal ore (a pretty risky business), then smelt the ore and make an alloy (and for a top result you need all ten kinds of ore in the right proportions). Then forge the blade, harden it and hone it - and maybe tinker it to increase the damage, (but with a percentage risk of shattering the blade and destroying all the work you put down so far).
And finally you need to find a rare gemstone for the blade, cut it (with a large percentage risk of shattering the stone), polish it, and finally use goldsmith skills to assemble the weapon.

That’s why I believe a player economy will develop from the crafts, in the same way that it has developed around every rare or hard-to-get item in the game. Depending on disposition and game style, some players, who prefer to roleplay and socialise, will do the actual crafting. While others, with an interest in exploring, will specialise in getting the raw materials together and then selling them to the crafters for a price set by the ‘market’. A simple matter of supply and demand.

And that’s why I don’t think it’s hard to implement a new craft system in an already existing mud. All it takes is a careful design of the craft system, a Head Builder with a good grip of the existing world, a couple of basic scripts, which can be variated with different echoes and vnums for different crafts, and a good Building staff to help with the work. Because this is mainly a build project, not code.
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Old 03-16-2003, 01:28 PM   #28
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Threshold: I'm not sure if you were specifically talking about AC2 with the crafters becoming warriors to gain crafting materials, or muds/mmorpg's in general, but here's my take on it.

On DM at least, a large portion of people who become skilled at many crafts are mages. Sure the fighters like to learn how to aquire materials and make nifty weapons and armor, but the rest of the crafts just don't seem to be extremely interesting to a lot of them (at least the newer ones anyway). Most crafts can be learned equally well by a fighter or a mage (farming, mining, etc.) because getting the materials doesn't require you to enter a combat situation. About the only craft we have that's much easier for fighters to learn is tanning and related skills, and even those a mage can learn if he's skilled enough to kill what he needs to kill or does things such as fishing or herding to provide him opportunities to skin corpses. Actually hunting is like that too; while a good enough mage CAN learn it, it just gets #### annoying summoning animals to protect yourself from all the owlbears and crap you run into.
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Old 03-17-2003, 06:39 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by (Molly O'Hara @ , )
I guess eventually there will be a new player economy developing, where some players, who like to explore, will collect the raw materials. and then sell them to the crafters, who prefer just sitting still and do the actual handicraft work. This is all good, since it provides something to do for different types of players, who got tired of Questing or killing mobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by (Threshold @ Mar. 15 2003,18:11)
Good luck on that one, but in practice this doesn't work terribly well.

Asheron's Call 2 tried to base a huge portion of their game on this, and it failed miserably.

What ends up happening is crafters have to become "warriors" if they hope to have a reliable source of materials.

Of course, graphical MMORPGs typically do a crappy job of implementing complex systems, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of muds do this a million times better.
Like DM and by the looks of it 4D, Armageddon has successfully created a player economy thanks to the crafting system. Like 4D Armageddon started out as 80% H&S and 20% RP and then a gigantic move on the Immortals part turned it into an RPI. IIRC it was around this time that they put in the crafting system. At first the only craftable skill was basketweaving (and it was a bit of a joke skill). But because everyone liked it so much they extended to what it is now.

We have a player-driven economy. What happens is players can go to NPC stores and sell raw materials and items that they make/loot/find. However what tends to happen is Nobles and Merchants will buy the items themselves from the players.

The reason Armageddon was able to do this is that the best crafters in the game are people who choose the Merchant Guild. The only problem is that Merchants will get killed by pretty much EVERYTHING. So they either need to get guards or get players to get the items for them. Because if they do it themselves, they're dead meat
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Old 03-17-2003, 02:33 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by (Molly O'Hara @ Mar. 16 2003,12:23)
We’ve been out of beta for about 5 years now.
We have 16140 rooms (155 zones). Of these about 6000 rooms are Wilderness Grid or Mine, that still leaves 10000 rooms, 140 ‘real’ zones, (all custom, there are no stock zones in 4D).
We have 7360 prototype objects.
I’d say this is a pretty large world, right?
The actual number of rooms in the mud matter very little when you're trying to retro-fit something that would affect the entire economy of the game. The number of players, however, matter a lot. Let's face it, it's often much easier to build rooms than get players sometimes.

With a peak of 120+ players, you have an extremely established economy, and your game is balanced based on that type of economy. Thus, if you are going to add an extensive crafting system (why add it if it's not going to be extensive?), your entire game would have to be rebalanced. This means that you have to recode the drops in all your areas or completely tweak the leveling system (assuming there is a leveling system). In addition, you would have to examine and rebalance the weapons already coded into the game since you'd have to make player-made weapons desirable to the fighter classes. Your players will also have to completely relearn the game in order to adjust to this economy. You also run the huge risk that the crafting will be ignored entirely by established players since they're already extremely used to playing the game a certain way. (This isn't very likely, but it IS a possibility.) You would have to change the minds of a thousand people on how the game is played. That's simply not an easy thing to do. If, however, you have a small playerbase, it is MUCH more feasible. You can work more intimately with them. The actions of one player affect the game much, much more in a small playerbase. I think we could all agree that making a dramatic change to a live game affects the players greatly, and that's where the difficulty of implementing an extensive crafting system comes in.

Also, it is my opinion that an extensive crafting system has to be worked into the very core of your game; otherwise, it just becomes something kind of fun to do after a hard day's work of killing mobs, like playing cards or something. Things like that add to the game's economy, but it does not impact it dynamically.

(All uses of the word "you" is in a general sense and not directed at anyone in particular!

Anyway, sorry about the rambling. I had a late night!
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Old 03-17-2003, 02:46 PM   #31
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(ARGH!!! I hit the darn back button on my house, and I lost my original post. I'll try again.)

I absoutely LOVE crafting on games. I should say, however, that I completely detest games that have crafting as a "side dish" to combat. Anyway, here's what I love about crafting:

1) I enjoy having my character "create" items that are in demand. I also enjoy finding out what is IN demand.

2) To be honest, I really hate the "set backs" that come with death in combat. Almost all games involve penalties when a character dies in combat. Since I almost always choose to play support characters, mine usually go first and fast. Crafting provides a fun way to advance my character without having to suffer the penalties of death. I may not go up in levels as fast as my neighborhood barbarian, but they're not going to be dragging my mutilated corpse into town either.

3) In a way, I view crafting as another form of combat without the risks. You still use strategy and thought in a well-designed crafting system, but you're just not very likely to die. (Well, okay, there's the occassional explosion in a laboratory or you might get trapped in your bakery while it burns down around you, but those are extreme circumstances! I just don't see much difference between typing: attack joebubbamob and craft uberitemoftheday.

4) Although I do enjoy combat, I think that a good crafting system allows for more player interaction than a fight. There's the whole bartering and bargaining phase that I absolutely adore. I also enjoy trying to manipulate the economy of a given world.

Anyway, crafting might not be for some, but I know that there are others out there like me.
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Old 03-17-2003, 04:03 PM   #32
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No risks in crafting? This is my favorite line from the deathlog:

Joecrafter at (sometime) by a tragic lumbering accident.
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Old 03-17-2003, 06:05 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by (Ogma @ Mar. 17 2003,15:03)
No risks in crafting?  This is my favorite line from the deathlog:

Joecrafter at (sometime) by a tragic lumbering accident.
Hey! I pre-empted my comment with the whole tragic bakery fire and the lab explosion!

One time in a mining camp....
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Old 03-18-2003, 06:31 PM   #34
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The actual number of rooms in the mud matter very little when you're trying to retro-fit something that would affect the entire economy of the game. The number of players, however, matter a lot. Let's face it, it's often much easier to build rooms than get players sometimes.
Perhaps the number of rooms doesn't matter all that much, but it does matter. I mainly mentioned it  as an illustration of our world size. What REALLY matters however, is the number of existing objects, in particular the objects that are either wepons/armour or potential raw material for crafted items.

That's where the balancing problem comes in. If the crafted items are too good compared with the effort needed to get a similarly valued item by just playing the game, then most players would stop playing altogether, and just sit there forging weapons and armor all day long. If the items you make are too crappy, nobody would bother with the crafts. That's how most players work, they go for the easiest option.

So you need a range of crafted items that correspond with the already existing equipment. The easy-to-make stuff is for Newbies, nobody but the shopkeepers will buy those, but Newbies usually are in need of money. The high class items will need a lot more time, effort and legwork, and also potential dangers, which will be achieved by planting the raw materials for those in some pretty nasty locations - (and that, incidentally, is why world size matters too). But then you also need that little extra incentive, like the artifacts in the game that load very seldom, or that legendary sword in the Mine. If the players know that there is a chance - however slim, maybe 1:10 000 - that they might actually create a 'kick-ass' item while crafting, then many of them will keep trying.

But I still fail to see how the size of playerbase affects it. Regardless of size all muds have a similar problem; the old players, the ones who have been there for ages. If they are 50 or 500 doesn't really matter, the problem still exists. We have players who have been with us since before we went out of beta. They know the world inside out, they have seen it all, done it all, defeated all the toughest mobs in the game, collected all the best available equipment, maxed their stats in any possible way. They don't really have any incentive to play any more.

If they had any sense they'd leave the mud and start fresh somewhere else, but sense very rarely enters mudding. Players are amazingly loyal to their home mud. So they stay on, and either turn to roleplay or just sit at the fountain all day, bitching about how bored they are. And, as most Administrators would agree, bored players are the devil's best friend, since they are likely to get into mischief.

So the crafts are partly for the oldtimers, something new for them to try. Not all of them will bother with them, since player preferences are vastly different, but some will. In fact the demands for the crafts came from just that category of players. The other target group for the crafts is the Newbies. We'd like to attract a slightly different clientel than we have right now, more roleplay oriented. And with the crafts new players get a chance of advancing without the mindless killing of mobs. They get exp. points from crafting, and they get money. And they also get a sort of platform as roleplayers, an actual trade, where your skills can develop with time.

As for the economy, we already have two parallell economies in the mud. One is money based of course, the other is Quest tokens. The tokens are used to buy things like personalised equipment, crashproof houses, personal pets and vehicles, and also to restore lost personal equip if you hit a DT or lose you gear in another way. The tokens have a floating market value in money, which is set by the players. Supply and demand. Some are good at Quests, others couldn't solve the easiest riddle, but are good at powerplay. Buyers and sellers.

So the craft system will just have to fit into that system. For the easy stuff you get money, for the harder you get yet another chance to earn Quest Tokens. And of course the off chance of every once in a while actually succeed in creating a top item. The best crafted things will be quite as good as the best ones you can get from killing mobs. But not quite as good as the stuff you get from the toughest Quests, because we want to reserve that for the really good players, the ones that use their brain as well as their fighting skills.

But the size of the playerbase just doesn't enter this equation. Sure, there are problems that need to be dealt with while introducing the system, but the playerbase isn't one of them.
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Old 03-18-2003, 09:22 PM   #35
Soki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Molly O'Hara @ Mar. 18 2003,17:31)
But the size of the playerbase just doesn't enter this equation. Sure, there are problems that need to be dealt with while introducing the system, but the playerbase isn't one of them.
While this may be true for your mud, I don't think it's true for many muds (games), and of course, it all depends on the crafting system and the current system of each particular mud. Some systems can defintiely incorporate change better than others. I have never played the game on which you work, so I will take your word that it is easy to implement it on your game. I simply don't think it would be easy to implement in several multiplayer games that I play, and in some cases, it would completely change the face of the game. Without some severe recoding, it would completely make it feel like the crafting system was a side dish or an after thought rather than an intregral part of the game.

In a playerbase of say 20 people, what 1 person does affects the game a lot more than what 1 person does in a game of 200 people. In a game of 1000 people, 1 person's actions/decisions are diluted even more. I've played on small muds and huge muds. It seems to me that a mud that has less players is more flexible, more able to adjust to major changes in the game than a large mud (which is why I still have the desire to PLAY small muds). There is also a lot less to baggage to deal with, in my opinion.

Anyway, that's my reasoning based on the current muds that I've played. One of them is not your mud, I believe, so your opinions about your mud are much more valid than mine.
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