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Old 08-14-2003, 09:31 AM   #21
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And it never occured to anyone besides Orion to act like an adult?
So your story didn't get published. Orion told you why it was not done yet. Believe it or not, the man doesn't exist to meet your every need.
It is now time to move on.
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Old 08-14-2003, 02:56 PM   #22
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Molly will become famous soon enoughMolly will become famous soon enough
I seem to have opened up a can of worms with what I thought was a rather modest request, that the stories from both competitions get published on the Website. Below is a small selection of quotes from the different reactions:

Originally Posted by
I think you should be patient, tis a virtue.
Never in my life have I seen a community which so much believes that it has a right to someone else's time.
When one of them tried complaining, all he got back was insults and excuses about how busy Orion is in real life etc.
We decided not to participate in future mud con competitions and are curious whether others have had similar experiences.
I don't really give a #### if your immortals got a bad impression of me. I was rather patient with them. Unlike me now, they weren't facing the prospect of formatting a number of stories to get them posted. They had to write a 200 character advertisement. I'm sorry if my heart doesn't bleed for you and your obviously wounded immortals.
This is exactly why I just quit MUDding.
Jesus ****ing tapdancing christ, you people are petty assholes.
Don't bother sitebanning me, I'm out of here.
Most competitions manage to anger and alienate the losers. You, on the other hand, have the remarkable distinction of even alienating your winners!
After reading this thread, I have the strangest urge to do harm to myself, and others....
BUT, hurry it up Orion I wanna read everyones stories!
And it never occured to anyone besides Orion to act like an adult?
So your story didn't get published. Orion told you why it was not done yet. Believe it or not, the man doesn't exist to meet your every need.
This all leaves me with a rather bad taste in the mouth.

To start with Sereina, whose reasons for posting these rather offensive comments are not very clear to me:
Do you have any secret knowledge, as the foundation for your cocksure statements about Orion being the only Ďadultí person around? Because it doesnít really seem to be founded on the content of the thread.

As Darkenvai so aptly put it; most competitions tend to alienate the LOSERS. Here the people that are complaining are all the WINNERS. Shouldnít that at least have made you THINK a bit, before posting those sweeping insults, concerning matters you really donít seem to know much about?

About patience:
Sure, patience is a virtue. I am usually pretty patient. I waited patiently and silently about a YEAR, for the stories from the first contest to be posted. Then a second competition is launched, and still no sign of any stories. And judging from Orionís statements it seems rather dubious if theyíll ever be posted. So how long do you think we should be patient, before at least raising the question? Isnít a year a rather long time to wait?

About the competition:
Isnít it reasonable to assume, that when you enter a Storytelling contest, the winning stories get published somewhere?
I think I can safely say that most of the contestants had two reason for entering.
1. We like to write stories, † † and
2. We expected some positive exposure for our Muds.
And I am not talking about a 1 monthís Ďblurbí on a not very frequently visited Website, and even less about some graphic to put up on our own Website. I am talking about the publicity you would get from people actually READING your story, and possibly liking it enough to take a look at the Mud where it emanated from.
I think this is the reason why we all are feeling a bit disappointed now Ė (I wonít use the stronger word cheated)?

About Orion:
We all have a real life to deal with. We all have to make priorities. My own priority, outside RL, is the Mud I am managing. Thatís why I donít run any public competitions, or put up any Websites with the ambition to be of public interest for the Mud Community. I think that if you do, you also make a commitment to the Public to finish what you started. If you donít have the time to follow through a competition you arranged yourself, then I donít think you should have started it in the first place. And the same goes for maintaining a Website, actually.

I donít claim to have a right to anybodyís time. Except of course when they START something, on their own initiative, that makes me invest my own time, and then not follow it through, making me feel that my time and effort was wasted.

Maybe you should also consider that posting those stories might actually bring some more visitors to your Website. Is it really that much work to format a few stories? And isnít that the main reason for running a Website Ė to attract visitors?
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Old 08-14-2003, 07:56 PM   #23
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I had chosen not to post to this thread again, but Molly's reasoned statements have given me the impression that at least SHE deserves a reply. Molly, it's like this. In 2001 I quit college. Since then I've been running my own business. I'm not exactly making a fortune doing it, but I do what I can to get by.

For the past several months, I've been working on getting a 'normal' job. When something like that is weighing heavily on your mind... MUD-stuff just doesn't rate very high up there. Hence, I've done very little on ANY of my projects. I have done quite a bit as far as coding, but that is because it helps me take my mind off of things... everything else was more or less put on hold.

Before that, I spent most of my time working on the business I mentioned before. I worked on my projects when I could. It took me a long time just to get MUD Planet and the other sites to look how I wanted.

Formatting one story takes me half an hour or so (if I don't get distracted for whatever reason). I read the story, fix the typos in it, format it, then post it, add the calls to it so it can be called. If the author hasn't ever had a story posted, I have to also set up the author directory for the author, put in their bio, etc.

Now, as I mentioned, I never PLANNED to post the stories (I think that is reflected in how I worded the information ... I said something to the effect of 'I can post them if I want to&#39. After the first MUD-Con, I was busy working on my business, and posting those stories simply was not a priority... whenever I had a bit of free time, I never felt like I had enough to do the job properly.

MUD-Con II came along and I was still working on what I could, when I could. I started work on formatting those stories, but I only managed to make it through one of them (which is posted, by Noximist). Then I got caught up in working on everything again.

Every time I think I might have enough time, I find I have something that is a bit more important to worry about. This is speaking strictly of my real-life matters, as well.

During my free time I work on a ton of MUD related stuff. I work on MUD Planet (the HTML, content, PHP, etc), Chronicles (the HTML, PHP, content, snippets, codebase, building, prepping for releases), MUD-Con (the HTML, PHP, content, prepping the codebase, and running it) which is hosted by Samson, MSC (I find the judges, I check if the stories fit the rules, I give out the prizes, I prepare the results, and I post about it), WGC Trivia/Chaos bot on I3, *nix (the I3 router I've been working on), The SAFE (most people don't know about this yet), several ideas that people have mentioned needing/wanting, The MPMF bug lists (maintain and update, with help from Samson), moderate the MPMF (with help from Samson), and I also help out on other MUDs when asked.

Now, I'm not listing this for the recognition, as I'm sure someone will get that impression. I'm listing it so you'll have an idea of just what I do. And that is just the MUD-related stuff. I do all of that alone, except the bit about hosting MUD-Con, moderating the forums, and of course when Mr. Fewtrell helps me out on some code now and then.

I generally try to avoid complaining about it because it's not something I was asked to do; it is something I volunteered to do. But, I get a bit angry when people expect something from me when they've done nothing to help me with it.

You complain about the stories not being posted, and say it can't take long to format them in HTML. Have you ever offered to find out my formatting rules and do it as a voluntary thing? No. None of the authors did.

Today I received a reply from one of the companies I sent my resume to. If the next few days go well, I might finally have the time to worry about those stories. If not, it's back to looking for a job. I work on what I can, when I can. Those stories are simply not a priority to me, when I have other matters on my mind.

I understand some of you may think I'm being unfair in expecting people to send me those ads when I haven't posted those stories... but I'm not. I have nine stories to post at 30 minutes per story, or there about. Those ads should take no more than 10 minutes, one time (100 something character ad). I have to spend about 30 minutes, nine times.

Do I think my time is more valuable? Of course I do. I'd be lying if I said my time is not more valuable to me than others is to me. Does that make me hypocritical? No, it makes me human. My things are more valuable to me, than other people's are to me. It's that simple.

But, I am not attempting to force anyone to do anything. I provided an either/or situation. Either get me the ad, or I won't take it later. Yet I'm being given 'post the damned stories'.

So, to me it's a simple matter of priorities. I will do what I need to, how I need to, and if that doesn't satisfy everyone else... well, I'm sorry. But I'm not going to change my position on it. I will post the stories, but it will be when I have the time to do it, not when others think I should.

Hopefully everyone can accept that, because that is how it will be done.


Suffice it to say that I and Darkenvai obviously have a different impression of how our events went, and I'll leave it at that. As I said, I really don't give a #### about their impression of me... one thing I've learned over the years is that you can't please everybody, so don't bother trying... and I'm not going to.


Ok, hopefully this will clarify it to everyone. Later, all.
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Old 08-15-2003, 03:04 PM   #24
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A little off topic here, but I'm wondering about first north american serial rights and the possibilities of selling these stories later. When the stories are posted does this count as published? Is it possible at this point to opt not to have one's story posted in hopes of attracting a print credit with said story later?
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Old 08-18-2003, 02:30 AM   #25
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You authored the story Fifi and a copy of it would indeed be 'published' if Orion posted it. It's your copyright though and you can do what you please with it.
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Old 08-19-2003, 09:57 AM   #26
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I can see both ends of the spectrum here. Molly makes a good point in saying that if someone commits to a public contenst, stating what the winners will get and it isn't what they thought it would be, could get expasperating. And I also see Orion's side of it, in that he doesn't have the time to post it. I want to stop and question why he bothers to use his time to respond to everything here then. If it was me and I was that constrained I wouldn't post at all, I would focus on getting it done, while at the same time looking for my job.

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Old 08-19-2003, 02:08 PM   #27
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People, calm down.

Heaven knows what's going on but I sense a clash of egos here instigating a battle not worth fighting.

Besides, ****ing of Orion is my job! (joke, don't get mad about this one seŮor Orion)
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Old 08-19-2003, 02:33 PM   #28
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I for one can vouch for his situation and know that he's really got very little time to be dealing with much of anything lately. Real life has a tendancy to catch up with people, and it's caught up with Orion. I would simply suggest that everyone involved calm down and just let this pass. If and when he's got the time to do it, I'm sure he'll be happy to format and post the stories. ####, I'd do it myself if I knew exactly what it was he wanted done to them, or if I had them in my possession.

As for whether or not there will be another competition, the topic is being discussed among those of us involved. Chances aren't looking good though since the reaction always seems to be less than positive once it's over.

Now for a sugegstion to the winning authors:

Why not put your stories up someplace on your own, and then forward some links to them to either myself or Orion. Seems like that would at least solve part of the problem. You could even write up a short bio for yourself and have that handy as well. Linking to them would take up far less time for him to handle and it just might put this issue to rest
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