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Old 01-23-2011, 10:56 PM   #1
slurpz
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Yet Another "LFM" Thread

I'm an old school MUD gamer. I started when Achaea was just getting off its feet. I was there when Aetolia broke off. And when Imperian, and Lusternia, and Midkemia started. I've tried New Worlds. I've tried Maiden Desmodus, and BatMUD, and Aardwolf.

Whether by base design, or through administrative changes, or through design changes, I was turned away from all the MUDs I have tried.

I enjoyed the IRE MUDs for sure. I liked how their combat system was more complex than "k rat" or "attack rat" or "kill rat". I liked how you can use tactics in combat instead of waiting until the combat auto-resolved itself. I liked how (in the past) real life cash couldn't really buy combat prowess.

However, the IRE MUDs eventually drove themselves away from me. In Achaea, all roleplay was thrown out the window when people could automatically get their class without going through an in-game trial.

Guilds (the prior system where all the classes of each city had an identity) were turned into Houses, which could take in as many classes as they wanted to. A subscription plan was put in place. Facebook advertisement brought in a new influx of people. And all of a sudden, it felt like Achaea had become a text WoW. It was a place of little roleplay. It was a place of lolPK.

Lusternia kept true to many parts that I liked about Achaea. However, the very low playerbase has caused so many people to make alts, that regardless of where you are, you're pretty much interacting with the same people over and over, albeit in different text forms.

Maiden Desmodus suffers from the same problem as Lusternia, except that you have only a handful of people on at a time (and by a handful of people, I mean that usually I only see one other person online. Max I've seen was 7 people on at the same time).

New Worlds has this extremely annoying "idle" system that just turns me completely away. I hate having a system that rewards people for afk'ing.

The Eternal City turns me off too. I don't like having to continue to pay for playing time. If I wanted that, there are tons of MMORPGs that I would spend the money on, such as Aion Online, Eve Online, etc. Microtransactions and donations, in my opinion, are the best payment systems. Sure, the game isn't run as a charity, and sure employee fees have to be paid, but forcing me to pay for a subscription just makes me feel as if my money can be spent elsewhere.

I haven't found an RPI MUD that I enjoyed. I felt more like I was writing a cooperative story with someone else, than actually playing a game. I've only tried Armageddon and Shadows of Isildur, but it felt extremely slow paced and tedious.

In my opinion, the greatest strength MUDs have over graphical MMORPGs is: imagination. Without everything drawn explicitly in front of you, you can imagine an outlook. Instead of seeing a monk punch you in the face, you read about it, and often times, your imagination trumps what is rendered by your computer.

I'm a little more jaded about all sorts of online RPGs since I haven't found anything that really appealed to me, graphical or text, so I'm looking here for some sort of help. Here goes...

1. I want interesting combat. And combat here includes both PvE and PvP. I want immersion. I want to feel the panic of being at risk to being attacked at any time if I'm in enemy territory. As Helo put it a couple of months ago, "Really my largest complaint with anything I've tried, aside from possibly a complete lack of RP, is the bland, boring, monotonous combat mechanics. Although I really enjoy RP, and a well written environment...when it comes down to it, sometimes I just want to bash and level. And when that is not in the least bit entertaining, and becomes a chore...it's unlikely that I will be returning to that particular world. Challenging critters, varied attacks, class/guild skills, a multitude of spells for casters...to me, these things make bashing, fun. I've played one too many games now, that have none of these things. Mostly I've seen a lot of: swing, RT, swing, RT, swing, critter dies, exp, next. I really, really, can't stand that. I'd also prefer to be in a forced PvP environment, but one that requires an IC reason, and carries consequences, both IC and OOC, for use and/or misuse. I've found that PvP optional, can lead to some ridiculousness, with players hiding behind PvP flags or what have you, and effectively destroying RP by receiving no consequences for their actions. Granted, it is a double edged sword, and forced PvP can get out of hand as well....but, with strong and well enforced rules pertaining to such, I definitely prefer it."

2. I don't want JUST a combat MUD. I've tried God Wars and their various derivatives, and hated it. If I wanted a pure combat MUD, first person shooter games are there already.

3. Environment. I want a vivid, well-written description in every room. I don't want a stock, or even a stock derivative. I want an original world. I take one look at the description, and if I see DIKU, or any of the other well-known stock, I automatically close the window.

4. Consistency. I don't want a game that periodically wipes itself (such as ArcticMUD)

5. Divine interaction. I want to see the administration actively involving itself. I want to see heroes that characters always aspire to become.

6. Lore. I love well-written stories, and one of the reason why IRE MUDs captivated me for so long was because of each MUD's background story, and canon lore.

7. The inability to buy god mode. The IRE MUDs are a glaring point on this. If someone is able to drop a couple thousands of real life dollars onto a game, he or she can pretty much just faceroll on the keyboard and take down near everyone from just pure damage output.

All in all, I apologize for the length of this post. I know that this is probably just a collection of wishes, and is completely unreasonable, but hey, if there are any MUDs similar to what I have listed, feel free to recommend them!
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Old 01-24-2011, 04:53 AM   #2
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Re: Yet Another "LFM" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by slurpz View Post
I started when Achaea was just getting off its feet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by slurpz View Post
I enjoyed the IRE MUDs for sure. I liked how their combat system was more complex than "k rat" or "attack rat" or "kill rat". I liked how you can use tactics in combat instead of waiting until the combat auto-resolved itself. I liked how (in the past) real life cash couldn't really buy combat prowess.

However, the IRE MUDs eventually drove themselves away from me. In Achaea, all roleplay was thrown out the window when people could automatically get their class without going through an in-game trial.

Guilds (the prior system where all the classes of each city had an identity) were turned into Houses, which could take in as many classes as they wanted to. A subscription plan was put in place. Facebook advertisement brought in a new influx of people. And all of a sudden, it felt like Achaea had become a text WoW. It was a place of little roleplay. It was a place of lolPK.
I think this is the real crux of the problem (and your feature list appears to confirm it): You're looking for a game that's just like Achaea used to be, back when you started playing.

Or as Bartle puts it, "the first virtual world that someone gets into is very special to them. It's a magical, enchanting, never-to-be-repeated experience. You thought it was only you who looked back wistfully on your early days like that? Nah, it's everyone ... Players judge all virtual worlds as a reflection of the one they first got into."

This is one of the major benefits of drawing in first-time mudders, particularly if your game offers combinations of features that aren't generally found in other muds; if/when those players become jaded with your game, there's not really anywhere else for them to go, unless they're willing to create their own game. Of course there are IRE-style muds being developed by former players, but as there's no public codebase to start from (unless you're one of the official IRE muds) such projects tend to be long-term, and rarely reach the point where they're playable. Even if they do open, there's certainly no guarantee that they'll manage to attract a playerbase.

However such muds are likely to be your best bet, if you're not satisfied with the five official IRE muds. I guess you could also check out Avalon, the mud that Achaea originally drew most of its ideas from, although from what I've heard their playerbase has dropped considerably in recent years.
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:01 AM   #3
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Re: Yet Another "LFM" Thread

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Originally Posted by KaVir View Post
I think this is the real crux of the problem (and your feature list appears to confirm it): You're looking for a game that's just like Achaea used to be, back when you started playing.

Or as Bartle puts it, "the first virtual world that someone gets into is very special to them. It's a magical, enchanting, never-to-be-repeated experience. You thought it was only you who looked back wistfully on your early days like that? Nah, it's everyone ... Players judge all virtual worlds as a reflection of the one they first got into."

This is one of the major benefits of drawing in first-time mudders, particularly if your game offers combinations of features that aren't generally found in other muds; if/when those players become jaded with your game, there's not really anywhere else for them to go, unless they're willing to create their own game. Of course there are IRE-style muds being developed by former players, but as there's no public codebase to start from (unless you're one of the official IRE muds) such projects tend to be long-term, and rarely reach the point where they're playable. Even if they do open, there's certainly no guarantee that they'll manage to attract a playerbase.

However such muds are likely to be your best bet, if you're not satisfied with the five official IRE muds. I guess you could also check out Avalon, the mud that Achaea originally drew most of its ideas from, although from what I've heard their playerbase has dropped considerably in recent years.
Achaea wasn't my first MUD that I got into. I just used it to describe when I started getting into text MUDs, which was at the end of the '90s.

That Bartle quote is very appropriate though, and I can see how it can come to play.

I hold nothing personal against your MUD, if the mention above seems harsh. I'd just like a little more meat to bite into.
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:06 PM   #4
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Re: Yet Another "LFM" Thread

It seems like what you want is an RPI-style game that isn't slow paced and has more advanced combat than other RPIs. I would sincerely suggest ATONEMENT RPI - at worst, you'll be able to further narrow down what you are looking for.
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Old 01-25-2011, 09:50 PM   #5
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Re: Yet Another "LFM" Thread

If you find a game that you are happy with, would you mind sharing it here? Your list doesn't seem unreasonable.

Thanks,
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:57 AM   #6
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Re: Yet Another "LFM" Thread

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Originally Posted by DonathinFrye View Post
It seems like what you want is an RPI-style game that isn't slow paced and has more advanced combat than other RPIs. I would sincerely suggest ATONEMENT RPI - at worst, you'll be able to further narrow down what you are looking for.
I'll give that a try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombalance View Post
If you find a game that you are happy with, would you mind sharing it here? Your list doesn't seem unreasonable.

Thanks,
Sombalance
Sure. Likewise, you can do the same
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:06 AM   #7
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Re: Yet Another "LFM" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonathinFrye View Post
It seems like what you want is an RPI-style game that isn't slow paced and has more advanced combat than other RPIs. I would sincerely suggest ATONEMENT RPI - at worst, you'll be able to further narrow down what you are looking for.
Apparently I already had made an account on the Atonement RPI site a long time ago, but the game doesn't seem to be registering it.

I get this:
Code:
Your Selection: 
L
Your account name: 
slurpz

No such account. If you wish to create a new account,
please choose option 'C' from the main menu.
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Old 01-26-2011, 07:03 AM   #8
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Re: Yet Another "LFM" Thread

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If you find a game that you are happy with, would you mind sharing it here? Your list doesn't seem unreasonable.
It's the combination of features that make it difficult, namely:

A. Unrestricted PK environment with a non-standard interactive combat system, but:

B. Gameplay that doesn't focus primarily on combat, and which emphasises roleplaying.

C. Pay-for-perks with limited impact, and no subscription fees.

D. A vivid and completely original environment with no Diku or Diku-derived elements.

E. A decent-sized playerbase.

Most muds have some variation of the standard automated combat system. Those that don't, that have gone out of their way to design something more manual and interactive, have usually done so because combat is the main focus of their gameplay. Conversely, the games which focus on roleplaying usually place less emphasis on combat - sometimes they even avoid hardcoded combat mechanics entirely, believing that it reduces the quality of roleplaying.

The only muds I can think of that try to do both are the old (or inspired by the old) commercial muds - the Simutronics and Skotos games, which require a subscription, or the Avalon/IRE style games, which are pay-for-perks. However a business can't survive on a pay-for-perks model if nobody buys any perks, and the more impact those perks have the more likely people are to buy them.

So that really only leaves the young up-and-coming muds. But developing an original world takes a lot of time, so these muds will usually either start out with a very small world, with a fairly bare world, or with some stock elements - and they probably won't have many players.

Over time those young muds, if they survive, will probably flesh out their content and (hopefully) build up their playerbase. But the Avalon/IRE style up-and-coming muds I've seen all seem to have the long-term plan of going commercial (perhaps because that's the "norm" for that family of mud?), so once they feel their environment is polished enough and their playerbase large enough, you're back to the same pay-for-perks situation as the other commercial muds.

I can think of plenty of muds that fulfill 3 or 4 of the above features, but none that fulfill them all, sorry.
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Old 01-26-2011, 02:07 PM   #9
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Re: Yet Another "LFM" Thread

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It's the combination of features that make it difficult...
Seconded.

If you're looking for an exact match for your existing deeply customized home mud minus the one feature that irritates you, chances are you're better off where you are. You can always lobby for that feature to be tweaked--and that's probably as close as you'll ever get to pure perfection.
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Old 01-29-2011, 06:39 PM   #10
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Re: Yet Another "LFM" Thread

exact same type of mud im looking for as well. currently im playing aardwolf but it seems like its just kill, find mob, kill, etc. i really liked the ire but like you said it has a low player database. also to add to your list is goals/achievements so you actually have something to play for instead of just grinding your way up the ranks. never tried playing atonement rpi but isnt it a sci-fi and not fantasy. ill check it out anyway.
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Old 01-30-2011, 11:22 AM   #11
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Re: Yet Another "LFM" Thread

I feel like this is a more "anti IRE" than a real search for a game you like. Asking for Intense Roleplay with serious combat, administrative involvement, quality gamers, well written story, and fantasy, is found in many games I've played, but I'm guessing you would find something wrong with each one of them.

I think you quit much too quickly on many good games before you even know the layout, structure and interaction. Certainly on NWA you wouldn't know any of this until you've been there a few weeks at least and likely not for a few months to feel and know the detail and depth of roleplay. Most lightweight rper's don't understand this and fail to succeed in interaction the first few days.

Perhaps try this method: http://www.topmudsites.com/forums/ne...-mud-home.html

Good Luck!
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:44 PM   #12
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Re: Yet Another "LFM" Thread

Eh, IRE was by no means my first MUD. It wasn't even my third or fourth. It wasn't the first game I got really into. It's just the best example of what I enjoy rolled up into one package and it's hard to step away from something that has -everything- I want at some level of competency and sacrifice -some- of the things I want for greater competency in one or two areas.

I think that's probably the frustration of all folks who get involved in (and enjoy to some extent) IRE games and decide they want something more. It just doesn't exist (yet). Personally, I have no problem with the pay for perks, and arties don't bother me. If someone -really- wants to shell out insane amounts of cash to be harder to kill, more more power to them. They keep my game free to play.

I have the exact same issue with RPI. I love RP, but getting into an RPI seems tedious. I've tried and failed many times over. PK is enjoyable, but in order to get advanced PK I have to sacrifice the sort of environment I want. Crafting is awesome - but most of the good non-IRE crafting games have their own challenges. Basically, IRE is like the crack of the MUD world, it's awesome for the first year (or -cough- five) but then once you try to break free you find you are stuck. Can't even go back to those plain ol' gateway drugs. They just don't hold that same luster anymore. :<

-end bad metaphor-


Anyway, I understand the challenges of developing new games. I've been involved in several games-in-development. I don't think it's a huge thing to ask for a game that can balance RP + Combat + Customization + Quality Lore/Environment with enough of a playerbase to make those things usable. Sadly, I have yet to find it outside of the IRE collection.
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:06 PM   #13
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Re: Yet Another "LFM" Thread

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Eh, IRE was by no means my first MUD. It wasn't even my third or fourth. It wasn't the first game I got really into. It's just the best example of what I enjoy rolled up into one package and it's hard to step away from something that has -everything- I want at some level of competency and sacrifice -some- of the things I want for greater competency in one or two areas...
Um, I'm confused, Mae. Either you forgot who you logged in as, or you are just commenting on the last post in general?

You say everything you want doesn't exist? That is only true if what you are searching for is so unique only you would play it.
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:17 AM   #14
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Re: Yet Another "LFM" Thread

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Anyway, I understand the challenges of developing new games. I've been involved in several games-in-development. I don't think it's a huge thing to ask for a game that can balance RP + Combat + Customization + Quality Lore/Environment with enough of a playerbase to make those things usable.
Sure, and many games already do that, based on their own criteria - Newworlds appears to be very happy with the way he's balanced roleplaying, and I feel likewise with my own solution, even though our games are at opposite extremes in that respect. The problem is you seem to be viewing the IRE games as some sort of "ideal" that all muds should strive for, when in fact they represent just one of many styles of game.

You gave the analogy "IRE is like the crack of the MUD world", but it's more like the Ben & Jerry's, or Starbucks, or Pizza Hut of the mud world. It's one of the more popular brands, and it has its fair share of devoted fans, but it's not the only option. You may find it tedious to eat with a knife and fork, but that doesn't mean everyone wants to eat pizza every time they go out to a restaurant.

There are currently five IRE muds with a sixth in the works, and Avalon is still around as well. There's also Maiden Desmodus (which focuses more on roleplaying), and other muds such as Lithmeria and Elvenblade that are under development, as well as others such as Ilyrias that never made it. This corner of the market is pretty well covered and already stretching its audience thin, I would honestly rather cater to other audiences.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:34 AM   #15
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Re: Yet Another "LFM" Thread

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Sure, and many games already do that, based on their own criteria - Newworlds appears to be very happy with the way he's balanced roleplaying, and I feel likewise with my own solution, even though our games are at opposite extremes in that respect. The problem is you seem to be viewing the IRE games as some sort of "ideal" that all muds should strive for, when in fact they represent just one of many styles of game.
Exactly. I find God Wars II one of the main games I recommend when players seek that genre and style. And there are other games that have niche areas as well. Hence the reason for so many games.
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Old 02-03-2011, 03:54 PM   #16
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Re: Yet Another "LFM" Thread

One way to escape the vice grip of "I know exactly what I'm looking for" is to try something completely different. And I don't just mean a MUD. And I don't just mean computer games. Anything that sounds new and exciting to you.
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