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Old 08-28-2011, 05:12 AM   #1
LadyGreymore
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Codebase for non-coders?

I was just wondering if there are any code bases out there that allow a non-coder to get a simple mud up and running?

I just want a sandpit environment where my hubby and I can have fun building and 'making' a game that we'd like to play in. Just something simple and stable, if such a thing exists

Thought here'd be a good place to ask!

Thanks!
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Old 08-28-2011, 09:02 AM   #2
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Re: Codebase for non-coders?

You might want to look into something like MOO (MUD Object Oriented), as it can be developed from within the server using a simple programming language. You can do basic stuff with little or no coding.

Creating a full game is always going to require coding though. There are stock muds that can be changed to some extent without touching the code, and even an online mud editor that lets you do some customisation, but without coding there will be serious limits on what you can achieve.
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Old 10-29-2011, 09:45 AM   #3
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Re: Codebase for non-coders?

What is the simplest code to learn and create a MUD for someone that has no experience? I've done Google searches and it seems C++ might be the hardest but I am not clear on the easiest.
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:00 PM   #4
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Re: Codebase for non-coders?

It depends on your goals. If you want to create something like the established, 10+ year old muds out there, it's not easy no matter what you use. If you keep your goals realistic, it can be quite easy.
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Old 10-29-2011, 07:09 PM   #5
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Re: Codebase for non-coders?

I found Smaug easy enough for basics. You can download a Windows copy at:
Download SMAUG server

A great place to jump off from is:
Herne's SMAUG Building Pages -- Introduction

You can also check out this website to help get training in Smaug building:
Smaug Building Institute • Index page

I'm sure there are easier bases but I this is where I started and I really enjoyed it. Another way to go is to find a mud you like and see if you can download the base it came from. Keep in mind though that the base will probably be a lot different than the mud you're used to because any good mud will have coded changes. However, the basic play should be pretty similar. Some muds will even offer to train you in exchange for areas. If you go this route though, first check their stand on ownership. I prefer to not build for muds that insist on sole ownership of areas. I often build in text files, putting a copy in my home mud. They do need some adjustments as to code.

The two of you may find it more enjoyable just to do the home mud, as you've asked, but the benefit of working on a developed mud is that you usually have people to ask for help and advice. A home mud allows a lot more freedom though.

A different route is for Circle instead of Smaug. At
tbaMUD | Continued development of the CircleMUD core
you can apply for an area where you can also get some building help. You can also download the base to build on and play with. I find the TBA is much better for the fancy stuff I like to put in my areas. However, the Smaug base is more fun to play around on. The reason for this is that TBA is a training mud. The areas are unattached examples that range from ridiculous to amazing. Smaug is more of a developed world complete with linking areas. Your player characters can walk from area to area, raising levels and so on. Keep in mind that the areas are only starter areas and you'd need to build your own higher level areas.

I hope these opinions are helpful to you. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:02 AM   #6
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Re: Codebase for non-coders?

I've always been a fan of dead souls. It has a bunch of cool built in features, plus an intermud chat. I've been playing around with it on and off, and that's about all I can say about it. But if you visit the site, you'll see that its still being worked on (I think) and has a forum where you can ask questions and chat.
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Old 11-05-2011, 01:57 PM   #7
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Re: Codebase for non-coders?

I really liked the Dead Souls intermud chat. The people there were very interesting and helpful. I found the base mud a bit difficult but the documentation was very good.

For the type of sandbox the original poster asked for, I think I'd go very basic, like rom or diku, just because they come with enough areas to play around in. However, the higher you go, the more in-depth the building becomes. My experience is limited but I think the smaug building is harder, but more interesting, than diku. However, there were a lot of things that I couldn't get smaug to do that I can build in TBA. I couldn't really get the hang of building in Dead Souls but I'm sure that other people find it easy enough.

I guess that the base needed depends on a few things. If you build areas, are you planning on releasing them to a particular mud? If you are, you should be using whatever base they are, to make it easier to import. Keep in mind that their code would probably have evolved so you can't expect everything to import exactly.

If you just want to keep the areas for the two of you to play with, how big did you want your starter world before you begin building?

Do you mud already? Would you like a familiar world or one completely different?

IZDemon, I think it would have been better to check other threads since there are a lot that deal with starting muds. The original post here had very little comparison with your post. My off-the-cuff thought is to go with C since a lot of the classic muds are coded in C. This makes it easy to open a classic base, such as rom and diku, and poke around inside to see how it runs. However, this makes it very easy to bump into copyright laws about derivatives.
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Old 11-05-2011, 06:10 PM   #8
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Re: Codebase for non-coders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnassus View Post
The original post here had very little comparison with your post.

Are you kidding me? I posed almost the exact question but just worded it differently and I added that I have done some searching for an answer via Google.
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Old 11-05-2011, 10:56 PM   #9
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Re: Codebase for non-coders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyGreymore View Post
I was just wondering if there are any code bases out there that allow a non-coder to get a simple mud up and running?
Quote:
Originally Posted by IZDemon View Post
What is the simplest code to learn and create a MUD for someone that has no experience? I've done Google searches and it seems C++ might be the hardest but I am not clear on the easiest.
I'm not seeing a relationship between a non-coder looking for a base for building purposes and a coder looking to create a mud. I can see now from the quotes that I got lost when you seemed to call C++ a code, rather than a language. The definitions I go by are that languages are like C, Java, Python, Ruby, Basic, etc. Bases are like ROM, DIKU, SMAUG, TBA, D-S, etc. Codes, to me, are things like bases and snippets.

I do run into a bit of confusion, as a builder, where some bases call the fancy bits progs (or programs) and some call it coding.

I read "create a mud" as "writing a mud from scratch" as opposed to (as the OP asked for) "starting a mud from an existing mud base". My apologies for any misunderstandings.
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Old 11-14-2011, 04:32 PM   #10
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Re: Codebase for non-coders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnassus View Post
I can see now from the quotes that I got lost when you seemed to call C++ a code, rather than a language. The definitions I go by are that languages are like C, Java, Python, Ruby, Basic, etc. Bases are like ROM, DIKU, SMAUG, TBA, D-S, etc. Codes, to me, are things like bases and snippets.
While we're resolving confusion: code, in the sense of program source, is a non-countable mass noun and should not be pluralized. Saying "codes" makes one sound like the "plz email me teh codez" guy.
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:20 PM   #11
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Re: Codebase for non-coders?

Sorry for the late reply and thanks for the clarification. I'd like to think the s was a typo but it's hard to tell with me. To correct and continue then:

Code, to me, means things like bases and snippets. Codes are things like Morse and Doyle's Dancing Man.

(Does this mean the rest were okay?)
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Old 12-11-2011, 01:56 PM   #12
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Re: Codebase for non-coders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnassus View Post
Code, to me, means things like bases and snippets. Codes are things like Morse and Doyle's Dancing Man.

(Does this mean the rest were okay?)
Yeah, your distinction between what's code and what's a language is fine.

All in all, I think your suggestion of SMAUG is probably best for the sort of need LadyGreymore outlined. If there were an intention to learn to learn to code someday, then Dead Souls might be better, but nothing about the post suggests that to me.
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:02 PM   #13
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Re: Codebase for non-coders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosprime View Post
While we're resolving confusion: code, in the sense of program source, is a non-countable mass noun and should not be pluralized. Saying "codes" makes one sound like the "plz email me teh codez" guy.
I read an interesting comment the other day which said that in ye olden days of programming, programmers actually did call source files 'codes' (like a synonym for files). Sadly I haven't found a reference for this yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.
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Old 12-12-2011, 06:12 PM   #14
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Re: Codebase for non-coders?

Thanks, Chaosprime

One of the reasons I like Smaug for this is the large amount of help around.
Herne's SMAUG Building Guides
MUD client and servers
Zylara's Smaug mud OLC Building Guide plus other mud stuff.
SMAUG mud building info
are all websites I've used extensively. I've never been to Zeno's Smaug Building Institute Smaug Building Institute • Index page
but I'm sure that would also be helpful.

I found Smaug to be a very good jumping off place.
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