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Old 02-22-2016, 01:45 AM   #21
Malifax
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Re: Why is rape acceptable in some MUDs?

Wow. Am I sheltered.

I played and ran a game for over a decade and a half, not a RPI but a heavily RP-oriented game pretty much without restriction, and this issue only came up one time. It was part of a storyline. The PC involved was played by a staff-member, and the "rape" was more of an allegorical impregnation that was never actually played out. It was a great story, by the way, and the "rape" was an integral part of it. The game did include half-elves, who were seen as loathsome by everyone and impure beasts worth less than a decent plow mule by their elven brothers and sisters. Per game lore, in vast majority, half-elves were the product of rape. Now that I think about, I'm surprised rape never emerged in RP at all on the PC side.

I realize this isn't exactly what the thread is about, but it's where I'm coming from. So...

@Acacia: This is one of many reasons I hate permadeath. The threat of permanent character deletion can be leveraged in so many ways, and it sounds like a player being forced to choose between having her character raped and losing it all together is one of them. I can understand such a scene being played between consenting, adult-aged players. Not my cup of tea, but to each his own. I cannot, however, think of any instance where allowing forced character rape would be constructive company policy. There's a point up to which a character has to keep his mouth shut and toe the line so Barny Badass doesn't stick a sword through his head, but I can't see any player base lying down for sanctioned bullies to throw their weight around. And that's what this sounds like to me. Am I wrong?

Almost all games humans play are based on battle in some way, and MUDs are definitely not the exception. There's all kinds of violence in MUDs. Some of it is the very heart of our games. After all, much of what is achieved in MUDs is a direct result of killing. Players come in expecting swords and sorcery, hacking and slashing, "murder and maiming," if you want. It's on the website. It's in the manual. Fast-paced swordplay where your life's on the line is fun, and it's part of everyday life in a MUD. In my mind, rape is different. I doubt very many players enter a game expecting to be raped. It's not a central part of the game. I've never read a rape how-to in any game anywhere. I've never seen a "Sexual Assault" skill anywhere either, or read any developer touting the excitement and intensity of his new rape system. Why is that?

I don't know the answer. I could say that rape is a personal violation, that lots of rape victims wish they were dead and some end up committing suicide. That rape is more distasteful than other types of violence. But murder is pretty personal and distasteful too, eh?

I agree with Acacia and can't understand the fairness of a policy that says, this is a role-playing game. If Barny is preparing to molest your character at gunpoint--choose. On the other hand, it takes all kinds, and as a bystander, I'm not about to pass judgement on people who fantasize about that kind of thing. They're out there, and if consensual rape role-play gets them what they need, I say have at it. As a game administrator, though, in this day and age, I think I'd have to say have at it somewhere else.

To answer the original question: Consensual rape is allowed in MUDs because these are fantasy games, and to some people, raping and/or being raped is a fantasy. It happens in reality, so it can happen in virtual reality too. I can't say why an administrator would choose to let players use characters with high mechanical skill force other players to let their characters get raped on penalty of deletion. It makes zero sense at all from a pure fairness and balance perspective. Makes me think there has to be more to it than this.
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Old 02-22-2016, 09:55 AM   #22
Jazuela
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Re: Why is rape acceptable in some MUDs?

Armageddon didn't have a policy other than the standard consent rule, regarding rape, til fairly recently. It didn't have a specific policy because it hadn't ever been an issue. Players who wanted their fantasy characters to "like it rough" would do so, and those who didn't, or had no interest in "rough" sexual roleplay, refrained. But the lines started to blur between "characters who like it rough" and "players who enjoyed rape scenes", and it eventually became an issue. So the staff wrote up clear rules about it.

Rape cannot happen in Armageddon, whether acted out, or virtually off-camera. Because of the issues the came up, players can't even have their characters -claim- that they were raped by any existing or recent other character. It just didn't happen. This is one aspect of game play that is simply not allowed to occur. You can't refuse consent, because the "rapist" isn't allowed to ask for it. So you can't roleplay that it happened at all, even as a "fade to black" assumed rape that wasn't roleplayed out.

Rape does happen to VNPCs, and half-elves are still the product of rape in most cases. There is no choice (such as Malifax alluded to above - "you are raped, or I kill you."). That choice has been eliminated. The would-be rapist can either change his mind and choose to not be interested in rape at all, or he can try to kill the would-be victim - or maim them, or torture them (with consent) in other ways. He can be a pathological psycho Freddie but rape is not on the menu of options.

Personally I'm glad this policy was added, but it kind of creeps me out that it was necessary in the first place.
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Old 02-22-2016, 10:18 AM   #23
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Re: Why is rape acceptable in some MUDs?

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Originally Posted by Jazuela View Post
Personally I'm glad this policy was added, but it kind of creeps me out that it was necessary in the first place.
This.

I'm a sick bastard myself, though, and as a game administrator, I''m curious about the straw that broke the camel's back. Armageddon is as harsh a role-playing atmosphere as I've dipped my toe into. I would guess that stuff started having legal ramifications, but, damn. If the Arm folks are cutting of an avenue of RP, things must be getting gnarly.
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:51 AM   #24
Jazuela
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Re: Why is rape acceptable in some MUDs?

No, things weren't getting gnarly at all. It was, from what I can tell, a one-time situation that spurred a discussion and as a result of the discussion the policy was created because dealing with the aftermath of one incident made it clear that they didn't want to have to deal with fallout from any more of them. That was my take-away on it, but the staff never divulged details on their player forum (and rightly so).
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Old 02-22-2016, 01:00 PM   #25
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Re: Why is rape acceptable in some MUDs?

For what it's worth, the situation that happened at ARM is similar to situations that happened on Atonement that led to me inserting the same no tolerance, no rape roleplay rule. ARM and Atonement were about as gritty of games as you can get, but being gritty doesn't mean that your game has to have a complete lack of social and moral awareness.

Quote:
I doubt very many players enter a game expecting to be raped. It's not a central part of the game. I've never read a rape how-to in any game anywhere. I've never seen a "Sexual Assault" skill anywhere either, or read any developer touting the excitement and intensity of his new rape system. Why is that?
Actually, there are games out there like all of the above -- one, even, that I'd loosely consider to be in the RPI Family Tree. It touts rape, consent or no, as a coded action and feature -- and its system is something that the staff have proven to be very proud of. Unless numbers have changed, you actually gain more experience points through rape roleplay than you would through general combat in that game.

It's their game, their system, they can do what they'd like. It's a primary reason why I'll never play that game, though -- in my mind, it suggests a series of priorities on behalf of the staff that are just at odds with what I personally want out of a fantastical roleplaying game.

I could start talking about the dangers of disassociated rape role play (what happens in MUDs) vs the boons of self-associated coercion role play (what happens, more frequently and less dangerously, in real life) ... I could talk about the impact disassociated fetish role play can have (particularly on young people) that might cause them to struggle to enjoy non-fetish sex, or experience guilt during consenting sex in real life ... I could talk about the potential legal issues in many countries, and how angering protective parents can destroy your game even if they don't have true legal ground to stand on. I could talk about a hundred different reasons to not allow rape role play on your MUD.

And I have, many times before. Unfortunately, in all of the conversations regarding this issue that I've been a part, I've never seen anyone's opinion change one way or the other. So I'll bow out of the crux of the argument here, before I start circling and repeating myself.

If you've never considered policy in regards to this for your game at all, then this thread is for you. Consider it, so that it's not an issue of a situation sneaking up on you and you not having any idea on how to handle it.
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Old 02-22-2016, 01:30 PM   #26
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Re: Why is rape acceptable in some MUDs?

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Originally Posted by DonathinFrye View Post
Actually, there are games out there like all of the above -- one, even, that I'd loosely consider to be in the RPI Family Tree. It touts rape, consent or no, as a coded action and feature -- and its system is something that the staff have proven to be very proud of. Unless numbers have changed, you actually gain more experience points through rape roleplay than you would through general combat in that game.
Wow, man. That is too bizarre. I guess they cater to a very specific clientele, huh?

Makes me wonder what kind of person thinks rape is cool enough to simulate, much less focus a game around.
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