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Old 10-14-2002, 01:18 PM   #1
Ingham
 
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Okay, I've got a little problem going on...

About two years ago, a troublesome player was banned from a MUD I imp on, god knows why anymore, he just got banned and that's it really. I mainly trouble myself with other things then mortal relations so this all happened mostly behind my back, I can't give you exact details on that. However, a few months ago he got unbanned, and returned with a new character. Everyone deserves a second chance so the other imps let him go by his way. So far so good.

However, he somehow saved one of his characters from autodeletion and that char was punished way long ago, before the IP ban was set on him. So he wants that char back, asking around with a few immortals and filing an official appeal, which instantly got deleted and got his character disabled, so now he can't log her on anymore at all and just has to wait untill she eventually falls prey to autodeletion as well. From hear-say I gathered that the lower imps consider this his "second chance" though I fail to understand how the disabling of a single character would help someone repent. At this point he sent an ingame mail towards the next level implementor, which would be me. Trying to stay out of this, I ignored his mail so far, but I'm really not sure what to do anymore...

Anyone here got any ideas?
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Old 10-14-2002, 02:10 PM   #2
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Angry

Uhm, did they just tell him "no", or immediately go nuts on him?

Ie, how pushy was he being about it?
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Old 10-14-2002, 03:14 PM   #3
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If you see an injustice in how a player is being treated then I think to support the integrity of the game it must be corrected. This should not reflect on the GMs who first applied a sanction.
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Old 10-14-2002, 03:35 PM   #4
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In my opinion, he should be allowed to play...just not any chars he had build up before getting banned. Second chance means coming back as a brand new person. Without knowing why he was banned to begin with, it would be hard for me to let him play with that char. Was he banned for exploiting a bug, or some other cheating? And perhaps this char benefitted by that? I don't know. To be safe, I would say, you can play, but only with chars created after the unbanning.

Thats my opinion. Take it or leave it. *shrug* Doesn't make a difference to me.
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Old 10-14-2002, 03:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (Adarkts @ Oct. 14 2002,2:35 pm)
In my opinion, he should be allowed to play...just not any chars he had build up before getting banned.  Second chance means coming back as a brand new person.  Without knowing why he was banned to begin with, it would be hard for me to let him play with that char.  Was he banned for exploiting a bug, or some other cheating?  And perhaps this char benefitted by that?  I don't know.  To be safe, I would say, you can play, but only with chars created after the unbanning.

Thats my opinion.  Take it or leave it. *shrug* Doesn't make a difference to me.  
If the player is back then the player was not banned, it was an indefinite lockout. As such unless the old character was saved by means outside of system mechanics or the forfeit of old characters was a stated requirement of the restoration of privileges the old character should be allowed.
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Old 10-14-2002, 04:27 PM   #6
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Since I don't know the stipulations of his lockout, it's hard for me to say. Personally, if we ban anyone and decide to unban them, they get told they get to start over from scratch, with a new name and everything.

I figure if they've done something serious to be banned, they can start over if it's decided they can come back, especailyl if their character was notorious for something.
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Old 10-14-2002, 05:58 PM   #7
Ingham
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by (TG_Nek @ Oct. 14 2002,1:10 pm)
Uhm, did they just tell him "no", or immediately go nuts on him?

Ie, how pushy was he being about it?
Not very pushy, just anxious to get his only remaining character back and start over with it. As for the second chance, as far as my nosing around has told me it's just two words and an empty promise. The character signed up using his original character and is very uhm... "remembered" by others, who apparently still hate him after 2 years. Be it his own fault or not, I don't really consider this a true second chance.

And no, he didn't do anything that improved the old character that got him banned in the first place. He was quite "high profile" though, but the ban was for excessive ammount of profanity to nearly everyone online and trying to evade everything the other threw at him to calm him down. Apparently after a failed online relationship, don't know the exact details and those are irrelevant anyways.
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Old 10-15-2002, 08:08 AM   #8
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If person was banned - his old chars should get deleted if he ever is given chance to return.
Thats what I think.
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Old 10-15-2002, 08:28 AM   #9
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The player was banned, not the character/s. Your staff offered him a second chance to start over, but obviously he wants more than that. However just because one of his characters avoided attention when the original punishment was meted out, that doesn't give him any "right" to keep the character now. It was an unfortunately oversight at the time, but I think it should be obvious even to him that he's not really supposed to have that character. Explain to him politely but firmly that a new start means a new character - it's not about "repenting", it's about making it clear that a punishment is a punishment, and it's not something that will be ignored just because the decision was made a long time ago and wasn't fully carried out. If you let the punishment slip it will set a bad precident, both with him and with others who are punished in the future, and you'll quickly find yourself accused of favouritism or the like.

In my experience, troublemakers rarely change their attitude, regardless of what excuses they might make, but it's up to you whether or not you give him a second chance. Just make sure you keep an eye on him.
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Old 10-15-2002, 11:21 AM   #10
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One of the things I really like about the game I play is that they do reverse decisions and give people a second chance. A lot of people start mudding young, or go through a bad phase. Two years is a good stretch. Key point is, did the player learn their lesson?

I also gather that where I play if a review is requested the reviewer asks for input from the imms who made the decision in the first place and discusses the situation with them. Depending on what they say, you can still maintain that the original decision was correct, all characters should have been banned, but that you are willing to show mercy on this one character. This of course is dependent on the player's continued good behavior.
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Old 10-15-2002, 05:40 PM   #11
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Well it's probably not going to do a lot of good for you to give him the old character back. Even if it wouldn't get you accused of favoritisim or something, he's obviously not liked by the other players for the way he behaved. And if they're willing to hold a grudge that long, I'd say it's safe to assume they might go out of their way to make that guy's life as miserable as they can.

And since I'm guessing they only know who this guy is by his character's name, letting him get that char back will only bring a lot of grief later on, as far as I can see--even if it is only for him. But some of it will probably spill over to you when one of the people who hate his guts so much say, "Well, you let him back in the game and you gave him his char back, so you must like him more then us."  Heck, it might not even be one of these grudge-holders. It might be a player who doesn't have any clue who this guy is and came after he was banned.

Either way, you're going to get accused of favoritisim if you let him have the char. I'd say this is a d@mned if you do and d@mned if you don't situation. Except..if you do, you're going to be more d@mned then if you don't.

But in the end, you're the one who makes the final decision. Not us, not the player. We can offer you advice...but you don't have to take it and we can't force you to. IMO, I think you should trust your instincts on this. Does this guy deserve to have his char back? Or did what he did merit starting all over again?
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