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Old 06-18-2009, 03:43 AM   #1
locke
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Post Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Dear MUD Administrator:

If your MUD contains: EnvyOLC, "ROMolc", "IvanOLC", "Sam's OLC" and several other MUD OLCs which utilize a modal editor "MEDIT" "OEDIT" "REDIT" and include a "RESETS" command, or use area files with keywords like "#AREADATA" and "#ROOMDATA", then your MUD is using an OLC which is based on The Isles OLC, and is part of the NiMUD source code package. It is owned by its surviving author, myself, and to preserve its open source integrity, we request that you comply by placing the following notices into your software:

In the title sequence, during login, near the Diku authors, pick one of the two following taglines:

1)
Contains code from NiMUD by Herb "Locke" Gilliland and Chris "Surreality" Woodward

or

2)
Based on NiMUD by Locke and Surreal


In the help files, there should be a help document viewable by anyone (by typing 'help credits') that is called "NIMUD" and contains the following credits notice:

------------

This software contains code that originated in NiMUD as The Isles OLC by Herb Gilliland and
Chris Woodward. The "online creation" system was first released in 1993 for Merc/Diku muds.
Parts are copyrighted (c) 1993-2009 H. Elwood Gilliland and Chris Woodward (deceased).
Originally ported to "pure" Merc by Jason Dinkel and later adapted for use with ROM as ROMolc.

NiMUD and its latest version of OLC can be found at: SourceForge.net: NIMUD (Multi-User Gaming Engine): NIMUD (Multi-User Gaming Engine)

If you or the administrators of this MUD paid for a copy of this software or one of its derived works,
you have been defrauded and should contact the appropriate authorities immediately to try to get
your money back.

The authors of OLC would like to thank:

Kalgen of Zebesta - world interaction, area detail, combat
Kahn, Hatchet and Kith of Envy Mud - user-friendliness, portability
Morgenes of Aldara - innovative, intelligent ideas, code:P
Alander of Rivers of Mud - good debugging!
Surreality - the late great chris cool

We also salute all those who have come before us, namely those who wrote the
innovative mud softwares of Silly, Diku, Copper, Circle, Merc and Aber.


--------------


Also, Jason Dinkel added the following requirement to the OLC itself, which your mud may or may not be in compliance with. A command "version" must exist in the OLC and display the following messages:

/*
* The version info. Please use this info when reporting bugs.
* It is displayed in the game by typing 'version' while editing.
* Do not remove these from the code - by request of Jason Dinkel

*/

#define VERSION "ILAB Online Creation [Beta 1.3]"

#define AUTHOR " By Jason(jdinkel@mines.colorado.edu)\n\r" \

" Modified for use with ROM 2.3\n\r" \
" By Hans Birkeland (hansbi@ifi.uio.no)"

#define DATE " (Apr. 7, 1995 - ROM mod, Apr 16, 1995)"

#define CREDITS " Original by Surreality(cxw197@psu.edu) and Locke(locke@lm.com)"

#define ADDONS " Mudprogram's (Mobprogram, Objprogram and Roomprogram) originally\n\r" \

" by the SMAUG development team\n\r" \
" Ported to EmberMUD by Thanatos and Tyrluk of ToED\n\r" \
" (Temple of Eternal Death)\n\r" \

" Tyrluk - morn@telmaron.com or dajy@mindspring.com\n\r" \
" Thanatos - morn@telmaron.com or jonathan_w._rose@ffic.com\n\r" \

" Heavily modified by Zane (zane@supernova.org) "
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:09 AM   #2
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Time flies, wasn't aware it was that time of the year again. How much popcorn will I be needing for this round?
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Old 06-18-2009, 01:01 PM   #3
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Question Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Are you saying that these requirements were in the original OLC code and people aren't following them or are removing them, that you're adding these requirements fourteen years retroactively to all OLC-using games, or that you're adding these requirements to games that download OLC from now on?
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Old 06-18-2009, 03:46 PM   #4
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Time flies, wasn't aware it was that time of the year again. How much popcorn will I be needing for this round?
LOL.

I was thinking the same thing.
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:07 PM   #5
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wik View Post
Are you saying that these requirements were in the original OLC code and people aren't following them or are removing them, that you're adding these requirements fourteen years retroactively to all OLC-using games, or that you're adding these requirements to games that download OLC from now on?
Are you saying, Wik, that these credits were never required previously, and are only now being required for the first time? That wasn't the impression I got from Locke's notice (which looks like it was probably e-mailed to to anyone who has been known to use that source code). It looked to me like a polite reminder to whoever admins a game utilizing that code, to make sure the appropriate credits are included. And it looked like he took the time to tell the admins exactly what the appropriate credits are, rather than asking them to look it up themselves.
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:30 PM   #6
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wik View Post
Are you saying that these requirements were in the original OLC code and people aren't following them or are removing them, that you're adding these requirements fourteen years retroactively to all OLC-using games, or that you're adding these requirements to games that download OLC from now on?
1) There were requirements in the original OLC code which have not been adhered to.

2) While the license remains unchanged, I have merely provided a different presentation of it to be more succint and to, hopefully, avoid problems in the future.
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Old 06-18-2009, 11:39 PM   #7
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Some perspective for those who don't know who this guy is:

Herbert Elwood Gilliland III Andrew Webspace
The Fourth YouTuber
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Old 06-18-2009, 11:58 PM   #8
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Nice. You should at least put some NSFW tags on that for people who have actual jobs and bosses who wouldn't understand why that's on the screen.
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:37 AM   #9
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

After reading his homepage, I would ask if he were serious ... but I've seen enough in life to know he probably is! I guess that's what you get from a self-labeled megalomaniac.
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Old 06-19-2009, 02:14 AM   #10
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

The more curious among you might want to ask him why he's stripped the Diku+Merc credits out of his codebase but is insisting his own credits get plastered all over everything.
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Old 06-19-2009, 02:17 AM   #11
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanthum View Post
After reading his homepage, I would ask if he were serious ...
Careful, he invented "homepage"...
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Old 06-19-2009, 02:35 AM   #12
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

The term you're looking for is narcissist. It makes you wonder why a person develops such insecurity and need to make wild claims to build their self-image. My guess is that it was his name. It couldn't be easy growing up with the name Herbert Elwood and if my parents named me something like that I suspect I'd have grown up feeling insecure as well.

The funniest thing is that amid all the boasting of his intelligence he manages to make numerous punctuation errors.
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:05 AM   #13
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by prof1515 View Post
he manages to make numerous punctuation errors.
I'm pretty careful with that, but I do admit I have some of my own opinions on English which may not fit in with yours. Looks like you're like the rest of these folks: you prey on other people's mistakes. You know what they say about glass houses..
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:07 AM   #14
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
The more curious among you might want to ask him why he's stripped the Diku+Merc credits out of his codebase but is insisting his own credits get plastered all over everything.
We've dealt with this elsewhere. Perhaps you should visit that forum to follow up on that thread. I have not "stripped the credits", I have written new files that do not include the credits because they are new files. I challenge you to find more than a few lines of similarity between Merc/Diku and NiMUD. I do credit them, but I will not add those notices to every single file because those files are not Merc/Diku's files.
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Old 06-19-2009, 04:55 AM   #15
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Except for how they are, and for how Davion proved it. And any cursory examination of your files will show the same.

And where have we heard such BS before? From everyone's favorite code thieves of course. The Mercthievia team. "We rewrote the whole thing so we don't have to follow the license anymore". Sound familiar? You haven't done anything any more substantial to Merc 2.2 than anyone else and yet you seem to be one of the few who insists their work is now your work.
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:37 AM   #16
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Except for how they are, and for how Davion proved it. And any cursory examination of your files will show the same.

And where have we heard such BS before? From everyone's favorite code thieves of course. The Mercthievia team. "We rewrote the whole thing so we don't have to follow the license anymore". Sound familiar? You haven't done anything any more substantial to Merc 2.2 than anyone else and yet you seem to be one of the few who insists their work is now your work.
Keeping in mind that I credit these people in my title sequence and in the help documentation . . .

Medievia did this in the late 1990s. They charged for their services. They also had only added a few features beyond DikuMUD itself. Medievia was not signfiicantly different than Merc/Diku and included much of the content from Merc/Diku.

I do this because I have a vision. If you choose to ostracize me that, again, is your ignorance. There was a point, sitting alone in my office, when I realized that I did not like the idea of being a slave to another person or concept. I do not feel that I am a slave to Diku and Merc, and I feel putting their names on my work is going beyond the line. I think they would agree. Why would they want their names on my work?

I think the relationship between NiMUD and Merc/Diku is already effectively described by including commentary from prior sources, and does not need anything more than the credits being in place because, frankly, they did not write the following files:

admin.c (similarly purposed like wiz.c)
config.c (similarly purposed like act_cfg.c)
grammar.c (my grammar engine)
map.c (from a snippet)
string.c (contains some credits to Diku)
admin_edit.c (from The Isles OLC)
convert.c (a file that I wrote that converts Merc/Diku areas to NiMUD area format)
graphics.c (my ascii graphics engine)
map2.c (from a snippet)
net.c (contains some mention of Merc team members)
admin_info.c (similar to, but not exactly like, wiz_info.c)
crypt.c (from a snippet)
handler.c (a file similarly purposed to Merc/Diku, but expanded considerably with all new systems)
mem.c (contains some mention of Merc team members)
parser.c (my script parser)
tips.c (my help tips system, fashioned after smaug)
alias.c (my alias system)
def.c (similarly purposed file, but more extensive)
html.c (my html generator)
money.c (my money system fashioned after ZebestaMUD)
props.c (the extensive NiMUD object system)
track.c (from a snippet)
ascii.c (my ascii renderer)
disease.c (from a snippet)
info.c (features I wrote based on Zebesta MUD)
mood.c (my feature idea)
translate.c (from a Perl application)
bit.c (a big long list of bits and their string meaning)
door.c (my advanced doors)
interpreter.c (very similar to merc/diku, but not really)
mount.c (from a snippet)
shop.c (not a diku shoppe)
board.c (from a snippet)
edit.c (The Isles OLC)
language.c (my language system)
move.c (my enhanced movement system and advanced room interactions)
sigsegv.c (from a snippet)
warmth.c (contributed warmth system by Duarven/MPV)
castles.c (my castle system)
events.c (my event queue)
lists.c (my linked list functions and some from a WOL snippet)
skills.c (my unique skill system with learn-by-doing)
worldgen.c (my world generation routines for dynamic space)
client.c (my client language, plus some MXP, MSP)
functions.c (my scripting language)
load.c (my original db and file formats now used elsewhere)
social.c (derived interpretation with some input from Smaug)
xrand.c (from a library)
combat.c (written by me and Newt)
furn.c (my furniture routines)
magic.c (original magic system)
spells.c (original spell system)


Facts:

Major differences:
NiMUD does not use Merc/Diku area files.
NiMUD has its own communication routines which are not like Merc/Dikus.
NiMUD has its own scripting language and OLC + OLC security
NiMUD has its own graphics system that incorporates MSP/MXP
NiMUD uses scene-based repop, not area-based repop like Merc/Diku
NiMUD has its own combat system and created HIT_FUN() weapon functions
NiMUD no longer uses the Merc/Diku memory manager.
NiMUD 5 uses different nomenclature than Merc/Diku ("actors", "props", "scenes", "cues")
NiMUD has its own Skill and Spell editors that work with its unique language.

Minor similarities:
NiMUD has a command table array like Merc/Diku.
NiMUD uses a few variable names and has a few lines which are similar to Merc/Diku.
NiMUD uses a few string functions from Merc/Diku that have had bugs fixed.
NiMUD has a few macros that are similar to Merc/Diku.
NiMUD uses some command names that are similar and function in a similar way.
NiMUD uses an attack system that is derived from Merc/Diku
NiMUD has a similar, though far more advanced, weather system to Merc/Diku
NiMUD has a similar calendar system to Merc/Diku
NiMUD uses something called an "extra description" (which I've seen in other, commercial products [games])
NiMUD has a far more advanced equipment system with more slots and generative descriptions

Features that are not owned by Merc/Diku that are present in many muds post-dating Merc 2.2, and, specifically, NiMUD, where they are all original implementations:
ANSI color features
Races
Extended skill system
Classless system
Levelless system
Language system (goes with Race system)

Features whose implementation is unique and/or original in NiMUD: (things I wrote based on other features or with similar aims to other snippets/features seen elsewhere or in RPG books)

Advanced furnishings (I wrote this for my MUD, it was later extended by Morgenes for Aldara ]I[)
Player castles
Deployable area templates and builder language (unique to NiMUD)
Copyover (I wrote it myself because the snippet didn't work or was incomplete and Erwin's is too)
Mounts (fashioned after Zebesta)
Warmth system (not even installed, was submitted)
Objective multi-coin money system (I wrote this from Zebesta, and I have seen it used on MUDs probably borrowed from me)
Trading/bartering/advanced shops/repair shops (my interpretation, all original code)
Space travel (includes real NASA HEASARC data)
Ranged Weapons
Grappling hooks and other minor vehicles
"extinguishable" lights (not present in Merc/Diku)
Generative HTML pages from NiMUD
Portals
Saveable areas and player housing
Concealed and secret doors
Lockpicks
3 magic systems: Ritualistic magic, Gem magic, Psionics
Clothing
Tools

Snippets I used that are not present in Merc/Diku, and were all heavily modified:
map2.c
map.c
track.c
disease.c (lycanthropy snippet)

If you write something for something.. such as a snippet .. this is not derivative because it is new work. It is compatible, yes, but it does not follow any particular license unless one is specified by the snippet author.
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Old 06-20-2009, 12:46 AM   #17
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

Quote:
=== What is ILAB OLC?

ILAB OLC = "I Love Amy Barr" On-Line Creation.

ILAB OLC is a constantly revised online creation system distributed by
Jason Dinkel. It was based on the public domain version of OLC written
by Surreality and distributed by Locke in The Isles 1.1. The first
release was in December of 1994. Since then many changes have occured
that make it a much better system to use for you online creation needs.
So the code was in the public domain? You do realize that causes you to forfeit all rights to it, right?

As far as your little file comparison, shot down easily. net.c is comm.c with a few small revisions. Therefore NiMUD is clearly a Diku derivative and you are in violation of the terms by removing their copyright credits from the source files.
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Old 06-20-2009, 02:31 AM   #18
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

So he's not just a narcissist, a braggart, a delusional egomaniac, a liar and an unfortunately named kid, he's also a thief?

LOL

Poor Herbert Elwood Gilliland the T'ird.
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Old 06-20-2009, 02:45 AM   #19
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

You left out hypocrite. Remember, he's expecting other people to comply with his terms when he doesn't comply with Diku/Merc :P
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Old 06-20-2009, 05:36 AM   #20
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Re: Compliance reminder if your MUD uses OLC

I'm not sure what sort of discussion was hoped to be garnered from this post.

A reminder like this should have probably been sent privately to MUD owners suspected of using the code, if there are indeed any rights attached to it. This would have, at the least, showed an intent to pursue and enforce the matter.

I am assuming Locke is intending to pursue the matter, yes?

If not, you're just throwing dust to the wind. As someone planning on entering the software industry myself, AND as someone who cherishes the idea of supporting their community, I understand the concerns behind wanting to protect your work. Unfortunately, -this- particularly community is not made up of professionals or even well-intentioned hobbyists. While I have come to know some VERY professional and trustworthy people here, there are just so many people here that couldn't give a rat's ass about your rights... assuming you do indeed have any to begin with. This is especially true if you can't even earn enough respect from your fellow MUD admin because you've got a cyber-persona that is.... well, not very likeable to begin with.
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